Is photography a side business or hobby for you, or have you been able to build a career from it? ;)
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Is photography a side business or hobby for you, or have you been able to build a career from it? ;)
Ha! Full-time career for many years but even then, there were so many disparate moving parts that each at times had felt like a side-hustle. Now retired quite happily and distracting myself with lots of hiking without a camera, and non-photography related projects (currently building a large garden/equipment shed). But a renaissance is coming...I can feel it!
LF photography (via HABS/HAER/HALS) is one component of my overall work as a historian. Otherwise, it is a particularly enjoyable hobby.Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherguy
Bruce
Taking Photographs has been a hobby for as long as I can remember.
Repairing and making photographic equipment has been an on going career. First working for Zone VI for 15 year. After leaving Zone VI I started the repair business and custom camera manufacturing. That I have now been doing for the last 25 years.
yes, lots of moving parts here too ( me too HABS/HAER + editiorial images )
.. learn how to make AI images really well, that's the future of photo-illustration,
like AI, photography has never been about reality,
I began early as a photojournalist at the local newspaper and moved on to a larger paper after graduation from high school. That didn’t last long but moved on to art school where I decided it was not a career for me. I’ve been a dilettante ever since with a tendency toward shutterbug with my family being my main subjects. Now that I am semi-retired, I am enjoying my cameras and darkroom more than ever. It is an expensive hobby that I need to keep in check!
I've been shooting full time for over 40 years, mostly architecture and the built environment, but lots of other corporate, commercial, and editorial work along the way. I've enjoyed the magazine work tremendously - I had a 20 year run with Architectural Digest ( and most of the other shelter magazines occasionally) - there's nothing quite like seeing your work in the doctor's office waiting room ;-) . Still hard to believe that I've survived (and occasionally thrived) in this business for this long. Had the pleasure of sitting down with the folks at B&H for a podcast a few months ago to discuss my work and recent projects - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wznd96WSNOY
Hobby all the way.
I just shoot for fun. I did some work photographing events in college to earn some beer money but it wrecked my enjoyment of the hobby so I stopped. I really enjoy history and making prints and photography just pulls everything together.
Full time professional printer for. others, in one year it will be 50 years now that this has been my only source of income.
I seem to recall that you were gallery (container) sitting at Photoville in Brooklyn a while back for one of your clients - I stopped by to check out her work and to say hi - sadly you were off somewhere else so I didn't get to say hello. I had the pleasure of exhibiting there a few times with ASMP.Quote:
Originally Posted by bob carnie
Hobby with a number of years doing magazine photography on the side for a small publication to see if I could make the hobby pay for itself. That worked until the magazine ceased publication and I let my photography return to hobby status.
Totally get that! Turning a hobby into work can suck the fun right out of it. At the same time, I've always heard that I should turn my hobby into a profession...
Essentially a hobby. I have exchanged the odd print for money; and done some technical photography (x-ray diffraction, electron microscopy, optical microscopy) as a minor part of my work for a time.
I somehow ended up in museum photographer position. I’d say by accident.
For 20 years it seems., with stable but modest income (another half comes from freelancing - private collectors, interiors, technical editing for book publishers).
Self taught. Internet is my source of knowledge, all good books mentioned here in LFPF came lately.
None of the above.
Just an artist and teacher.
I studied photography as a trade in the late 1980s. We used to have a joke: "What's the difference between a photographer and a pizza? A pizza can feed a family of four." I ended up in IT.
It is also a solid career choice, but I've heard that they've been impacted by AI as well.
In the same line,Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaughan
Q: How do you get a professional photographer off your front porch?
A: Just pay for the pizza.
My career has been checkered indeed. Briefly, left crazy art college after 2.5 years to join a cultural-political association determined to reverse the economic collapse and create a new Classical renaissance, figuring it could be done in a couple of years, after which I'd return to my intended photography career. That was 51 years ago, during which time I been, among other things, a part-time credentialed photojournalist and sometimes editorial photo-illustrator for the association's related newspapers and magazines; and also a self-employed commercial, ballet, and portrait photographer for about 12 years. My business acumen amounting to even less than my zero start-up capital, my home-based business finally ended with the need to support my family reasonably, and I put down my cameras for 13 years for a 9-5 job in IT services. While still working there, I began tip-toeing back into photography c.2017, have since been able to retire from the 9-5, now contribute time to the association's editorial work, including as co-editor of our journal of art, science, and statecraft, and happily pursue my passion for B&W film photography, with which I fell in love in high school in 1968.
I was 16 years when I developed my first film.
At 19 I went to the Royal Academy for Fine Arts to get a diploma in photography, which was mandatory to become a free lancer as a certificate of establishment was required for having the right to practice photography commercially.
The first year at the Academy was a true disaster, as being an artist was what counted there, which was not my cup of tea...
So I went to the institute for graphic techniques to get te required diploma, which was a success as there things were 'down to earth': chemistry, densitometry, optica, lightning techniques, darkroom practice etcetera...
When studying was finally finished, I became an intern in the Museum for Fine Arts, in the Museum of Industrial Archaeology and in a governmental project for nature preservation, all together for 4 years.
Then 'reality stroke' and I became an independent photographer with a nice studio and stayed it for 35 years, now I am retired (and a bit tired).
It begun in the industry, mainly power plants, and ended in the editorial photography illustrating about 70 books about a large diversity of themes (https://www.photoeil.be/bibliography.html).
But one thing I have to get off my chest, professional digital photography was hell!
So I have dumped it and the darkroom is my kingdom now.
Q: How do you make a small fortune as a professional photographer?
A: Start with a large one.
That would have been Rita Leistner, I was suppose to be there but got sidetracked with another projectQuote:
Originally Posted by bdkphoto
Photography has been a lifelong hobby for me.
It is my career (mostly weddings and portraits), but large format is the hobby side of my photography pursuits. It's actually why I got into LF in the first place - to create separation between "work" and "play", as I felt myself loosing some of that spark. LF has really reignited it!
I have been a professional photographer in the publishing industry since 2002. For the first 16 years I was a newspaper photographer, but was laid off like so many others. Fortunately, I always did freelance work on the side, including for a magazine publishing company based in Tennessee that I now work for. I specialize in agricultural, economic development and some travel work throughout the continental US. I spend every other week shooting on location, then editing and setting up shoots the next week.
I learned photography when it was still in the darkroom, but went completely digital when I started my career. Digital work never feels "finished" like film work, and the craft of photography felt sometimes lacking in a traditional way. So about 14 years ago I started shooting medium format and then moved to 4x5 10 years ago. I do a lot of camping with my wife and kiddos in National Parks and spend dawn and dusk shooting color 4x5. LF is mostly a hobby, but I have done some portrait and architectural work for freelance work. Like others who are professionals, LF is a wonderful way to think outside of the box that you are normally in with your work side of image making.
My website is www.nathanlambrecht.com for anyone interested. Those of you who have a website please post a link to yours, large format or otherwise.
I've seen numerous people earning thousands of dollars through professional photography. This inspired me, and I’ve decided to pursue it as a profession. Currently, I’m working as a writer, but I’m shifting my focus to photography. Let’s see how my journey in this field unfolds.
I started working full-time as a newspaper photographer when I was a junior in college and have been doing it professionally ever since. I now have a gallery in Woodstock, VT, and run workshops around the world. Photography has let me do things a small town boy could never have dreamed of and the dream continues as I'm building a large darkroom where I can make 40X60 prints. A mentor long ago told me that if somebody is doing it, so can I. He was right!
You could say that photography has been my life. After community college, went to work in a custom lab. Then spent two years as a portrait photographer (high-school seniors), and another stint in a lab as a custom printer. Then was hired by Eastman Kodak as an industrial/technical photographer, where I worked for the next 25 years. All the while pursuing my personal photography, and after 1997, shooting for architects as a 'side hustle'. When my employer (by then it was ITT) let me go, I moved to Washington DC, got married, and worked assisting established architecture shooters (among other things). We moved to Tucson in '17, where my wife is Head of Conservation at the Center for Creative Photography (so it's a family profession). Since then I've done some professional work, mostly artwork documentation, but have been able to concentrate on my personal landscape photography. And I'm not done yet!
Started as a hobyy as a 6yr old kid, built a darkroom at 17 when it became a passion, but I always wanted to be an architect. When I graduated architecture there were no jobs in architecture, I crazily bought a 5x4 camera and began commercial architectural photography, I kept my head above water for about 18 months before going back to do my post grad archtitecture and when I used photography as part of my study and practice as a architect. sold the LF kit when kids arrived and got back into it about 8yrs ago. I started my own architectural heritage conservation practice 18 months ago and I'm beginning to integrate the photography with architecture, now that's got a little momentum. It's fun but still a self funded pursuit / art practice rather than a commercial enterprise.
Interesting journey, I'll have a look at your website!Quote:
Originally Posted by phdgent
Professional here. I got into darkroom work at 15, wrote and photographed for a newspaper as a teenager, studied photography a an art academy. I became a freelancer in 1999, accepted a part time job at my former academy in 2010. I worked those two jobs for many years, sometimes endless hours. I came to a point where I just couldn't handle it anymore and became sick. Thanks to european regulations, I was on sick leave for about two years without losing my job. I returned to the academy in a different function (I'm in charge of the photo studio now, still part time) and reduced my freelance hours considerably. Still trying to get back on track. Lost a lot of enthusiasm for my job (and life) at some point of the grind...
Yes, I do know what you are talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael E
Being a freelancer isn't always so obvious. You can't say no to client and the pressure is sometimes a 'little' to over the edge. You get in the red zone before you know and don't want to recognise it...
In the year COVID broke out, I had a minor stroke while working, full steam, on a book about the Reims cathedral in France for a French publisher.
All the sudden everything got black, it was like all the power was cut. I managed, on automatic pilot, to sit down on a bench in front of that magnificent cathedral.
And all the sudden got 'waken up' by the publisher/writer who was accompanying me. He shook me awake with the words: "Allez Philippe on a pas le temps pour se reposer, je suis au chronemètre moi!".
So I picked myself and my camera up again and carried on.
To my greatest regret because when I got home that night, I drove from Reims to Ghent by car and never knew how I managed, my wife hardly recognised me.
I went to see a doctor and the verdict fel: stop working immediately and get medical help!
I fell in a kind of tunnel for 6 months, was on sic leave for a few years (in Belgium we have more or less the same system as in Germany).
Had to climb out a kind of 'state of delusion' with the help of a very good physiotherapist, that nam performed a miracle!
Now I still can't function 'on full power' anymore, my whole right body side is still like 'out of order', I can't ride a bicycle anymore, feel not so stable by coming down stairs and when tired I get somewhat confused in my words.
I am retired now, and do some volontairs work to return to community for what it gave me when I was sick all those years.
Hi Michael,Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael E
Since I also live in Germany, I wanted to ask you what exactly made you lose passion for your job.
Was it because of the working conditions?
There are a few long-time pros on this forum, plus some long-standing artists who, like all artists of whatever medium, put a whole package of income opportunities together to make things work.
For me it was never going to be more than a side hustle--I was dreaming of being an architect when I started in photography and ended up in engineering.
Just as with music, it's hard to make a living doing things most practitioners are happy to do for free.
Rick "for whom music became more of a side hustle than I ever though possible" Denney
Done both, at one time was full-time freelance though my business was always diverse and included not only photography but also videography, audio recording / live sound, and production work. But spent a couple of years earning most of my income from weddings and then later was pretty close to securing a full-time job doing architectural photography but Covid killed that for various reasons. Now I work professionally in audiovisual and event management and the film/darkroom thing is a side hustle (I'm a featured artist in 3 galleries and do occasional festivals) and I also help operate an art non-profit. Most folks I know who would consider themselves full-time photographers still have extra income or side jobs to make it work. I have strong opinions about where the market for photography is going (especially in the mid-tier market where I operated) and it's not great, so I'm glad I'm no longer fighting that fight.
Why do you believe the market is not that great anymore? To me, it’d be wonderful to let it grow from a side hustle to a more professional full-time job. Do you think it’s not worth it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Corran
I think you mentioned elsewhere you were in Germany? So things may be different over there. But at least in my corner of the world, what I see is two major issues. One, is a continued push downwards in prices as more and more people are offering photographic services. I see a lot of people advertising prices lower than I charged almost 15 years ago when I started (and didn't know what I was doing), despite years of record inflation and higher costs of living. I also see a great deal of push back on the high wedding prices of everything, but photography services especially. I live in a very popular wedding area, and despite this, there are a zillion people fighting for space in the market, with only a very few well-established businesses charging what I would consider a good rate. Basically, the market is mirroring what I see in life, with continued pressure down into lower pay with a few folks getting the real cream-of-the-crop business at the high end, and very little in the middle.Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherguy
Secondly, in my opinion a huge chunk of the market has been erased with the ability of anyone to make a fairly high quality image with their cell phone. While a photographer can/should have the edge with composition, posing, etc., for many they can get close enough with their cell and therefore are not hiring a photographer for their Christmas photo session or for graduation photos. The photographers I see still in high demand are leveraging other things, especially props, clothing rentals, or access to special locations, none of which I had any interest in pursuing myself. There also seems to be a move towards grouping a large number of clients into smaller sessions, with consequentially lower rates, so-called "mini-sessions." Again, I simply am not interested in churning out 10 tiny sessions in a day at cut rates to make what I would charge one client back in the day (and then have to edit all of that...).
Of course there's room for professional photography and the ability to make money in it if you have the right combination of skills and such, and target an appropriate audience. Myself, I've never been a great marketer and clawing out of the sea of hobbyist-turned-side-hustle-photographers is not my jam. I enjoyed my few years doing weddings but I'm not interested in really fighting to get into that market where I live now, especially targeting the more high-end clients since the middle has evaporated. I had the advantage in the past of living in a place with very few photographers other than a couple very high-end places, so I had the run of the town for awhile and didn't need much marketing as word-of-mouth kept things moving at a good clip.
A quick story - years ago my wife's best friend was getting married and asked about me photographing. I offered her a massive discount on my usual rate. However, her caterer offered to photograph the wedding for free as they wanted to get "into wedding photography" and so she went with that. Can't beat free right? Anyway, as my wife was the Matron of Honor, I went to the wedding, and I brought my Leica and one lens to the wedding to snap some photos just for fun. A little while later this friend told us that the "photographer" delivered zero photos that were worth looking at. Just comically bad from a technique standpoint. I was able to give her about a half-dozen images from her wedding, just stuff I snapped here and there, and these are the only images she really has from that day. She knew the quality of my work (and has several prints from me) but you just can't compete with "free" or with extremely cut-rate photographers, and there's not often an opportunity for a "redo."
In any business, one has to be ready to reinvent themselves I think, and as a freelancer I have seen a lot of change in the last 20 years. The 2009 recession absolutely killed my AV business at the time, with all the contract work I was getting and making a good living off of drying up practically overnight. And Covid killed a couple of lucrative opportunities for me in the photography space. I've done a little of everything in photography, from architecture to weddings, and I am very happy to have had those opportunities, but now I am perfectly happy to shoot film and work more in the "art" space, with the occasional freelance gig for friends where they want my particular style. Anyway, that's just my personal thoughts and may be very different from how others see the market, especially in different areas of the country.
Only you can decide whether it's worth it - all of it depends on your skills and understanding the market you are competing in. Weddings and events are a retail market - that is you are working with the end client directly (as opposed to the commercial/editoral markets where you work with editors, art directors, and the marketing departments) Most of your prospective clients will not understand photography in the same way that editors/art directors do, therefore you marketing approach has to be different - this is why I suggested that you seek out a trade association that has all the best business practices codified so that you understand all the fine points of doing business in your region.Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherguy
My entire forty-year career was in commercial art and photography.
I also taught commercial photography in the art school and college classroom part-time for thirty years (two years full-time when I ran the program).
My advice to anyone contemplating a career as a commercial photographer:
#1 You must be a business person first
#2 Your work must be consistently above average
#3 If your feelings get hurt when your work is criticized, you should consider another line of work.
The type of work I did in my commercial photography career: Selling Over 500K Images: From Print Sales to Digital Success
I am semi-retired and do web-based work now; the type of work I do today:
https://photoscapes.com/wp-content/u...-blues-750.jpg
I admit that I know nothing about marketing; I really should start from scratch. I still believe that in Germany there is room for positioning myself as a professional photographer. Whether I can do it full-time is not certain, I guess I need to learn a lot about business first and see if there is enough demand in my area.Quote:
Originally Posted by Corran
in Germany if memory serves correct you may have to pass a licensing exam .. and get vocational training.Quote:
Originally Posted by anotherguy
friends in Germany who worked there as a commercial shooter for magazines, AFP &c recently told me
worldwide economic circumstances have made it a tight market these days
good luck!
jon
There are two ways of photographic education in Germany, that are completely separated: Three years of vocational training (to be employed) plus additional training and licencing (to employ and train). Or college/academy, typically five years for a diploma. But the laws have been relaxed in recent years for many trades. Electricians, for example still have to have formal training, but photographers can offer their services without. And I don't get a fine for taking passport photos with a five year degree instead of three years vocational training... Of course, now a lot of self-taught photographers enter the market. But then, companies are paying a lot of money for "authentic" photos for their social media that don't show the effort that goes into them. Craft is not as important as it used to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by jnantz
I've made some money at photography, but never a living. No doubt, it's a hobby that I've thoroughly enjoyed.
thanks for clearing that up!Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael E
Maybe craft is still important but it presents itself in different ways, like the skill of creating effortless looking photographs?
I'm still trying to figure out what "authentic" actually means considering everything has already been done and there's nothing new under the sun.
Hobby for 35-ish years. Shot mostly large format (8x10, 5x7 and 4x5) for almost all of that.