Give my creation... LIFE!!!!

Howdy Folks,

Some of you may know that I've been working on a 7x17 camera based on an ARCA-SWISS F-Line monorail for the past several months. Well as of about two hours ago, the Franken-ARCA LIVES!!! (bonus points if you can name the source of the quote I borrowed for the title of this thread - come one, it's an easy one).

Sorry to be such a tease, but I won't be posting any photos of the creature until next week. It will make it's public debut at the Large Format Conference in Rockford later this week. Hope to see many of you there. If not, watch this space next week for some digisnaps of the Franken-ARCA.

Kerry

"Young Frankenstein" Do I win a copy of the first contact print you make?

From Mary Shelley's book.

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Originally Posted by Jack Flesher

"Young Frankenstein" Do I win a copy of the first contact print you make?

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Jack wins! Too easy I suppose, but I love that movie. It still cracks me up everytime I watch it.

Sorry, no contact print prize. But since you were the first to identify the source of the quote, if you send me your email address, I'll email you a couple jpegs of the completed beast as a private preview to it's public unveiling in Rockford.

Kerry

But seriously, Frau Blucher aside, why the size 7x17? The arcane 8x10 from book plate sizes, etc. I 'understand' multiples of 8x10 up and down the size charts and accept the arbitrary nature of them and even the "golden proportion" ratio 1:1.618 (approx.). Why this size?
(Thanks for all the info you share on lenses, etc.) I'm a fan...
Michael

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Originally Posted by Michael Daily

But seriously, Frau Blucher aside, why the size 7x17? The arcane 8x10 from book plate sizes, etc. I 'understand' multiples of 8x10 up and down the size charts and accept the arbitrary nature of them and even the "golden proportion" ratio 1:1.67 (approx.). Why this size?
(Thanks for all the info you share on lenses, etc.) I'm a fan...
Michael

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The 7x17 size goes back about a century. Out of the standard banquet sizes (7x17, 8x20 and 12x20) it is the most manageable. I'd love to shoot 12x20, but the thought of carrying the camera, holders and lenses up and down steep mountain trails is daunting.

There are mini-banquet formats (4x10 and 5x12), but I wanted something larger for contact printing. I do shoot 4x10 in color, but for black and white, 7x17 seemed like a good compromise that is "small" and "light" enough to carry, but big enough to contact print.

For 7x17 I already had a few lenses that would cover the format, and then I traded another lens for a couple holders earlier this year. Then Kodak and Ilford started their special order film programs and suddenly my fate was sealed.

Kerry

Congrats, Kerry - won't be able to make it to the conference this year, but I'll look forward to seeing your snaps of the critter...

Congrats, Kerry. Are you handing out e-cigars? ;)

OK, thanks. That explains the practicality of the size, but is there anything beyond that practicality of "lugging" upslope? Contact printing is understandable--that is the standard of quality. As a sometimes student of Art History and Esthetics, I often wonder at the choices for the particular sizes that are chosen. Mine for 35mm, 4x5, 5x7, and 8x10 are generally driven by the easily available equipment and film, rather than by the esthetic considerations. I work following the conservative philosophy of choosing a camera, lens, film, printing method and materials, and then try to work within those constraints. I'm pretty "strait-laced" in that regard. As such, I often wonder why others choose the ways they do: is it for practical reasons, what is available, or is there some other reason? Thanks for your comments.
Michael

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Originally Posted by Michael Daily

As such, I often wonder why others choose the ways they do: is it for practical reasons, what is available, or is there some other reason?

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Michael, I've never been able to get comfortable with 4x5 and 8x10 - they're just too square, and rarely fit the way I see things. Maybe it's because I grew up in 35mm. Anyway, discovering that mismatch set me on a long odyssey among ever more exotic formats. For a while now my favorite has been 6.5x8.5, though I still tinker in many others, including long panoramic formats. If I had my druthers, rather than 4x5, 5x7 and 8x10, the formats that survived in regular commercial use would have been 3.25x4.25, 6.5x8.5, and 7x11.

Only someone with an "Abby Normal" brain would shoot such an elongated rectangle as 7X17. Unless, of course, you are shooting in the portrait orientation, such that you can say to your assistant, "elevate me!"

All of you should already know that interchangable "system" cameras are immoral -- Those parts can be plugged into each other to make all sorts of unholy illegitimate cameras! In some states this sort of thing is illegal, and I certainly hope you wise up and realize that we don't want these sort of "incestous" mechanisms coming East. It might be OK in the Northwest cause they're all hippie types anyway, but I'm fearing for the breakdown of tradtional formats and solid, rectangular values. I think we should petition the government to pass some new legislation outlawing these half-breed, mutants. And maybe sin-taxing any large format camera that doesn't conform to the rightous 4x5-8x10 proportion. Maybe grandfather in the old Koronas and Folmer & Schwings since they were made by good American heartland companies, but tell me, can we really tolerate a single one of these bastardized French "contraptions?" Standards are important I tell you!

Now, now Frank. Come one, we live in a global economy. The back for my camera was made in Vermont, the ground glass was made in Montana, other parts were made in Indiana and here in Oregon - and that's just the parts made in the United States. The bellows was made in England and the parts that were made by ARCA-SWISS are old enough that they were actually made in Switzerland. It truly is a harmoniuos blend international manufacturing expertise. As is my 4x10 Swiss Lotus. It has major components made in Austria and I recently upgraded to a Metric front format frame with Micrometric Orbix that was most likely made in France and is mechanical marvel. Hey, if the typical "American" automobile can have parts made all over the world, why can't my cameras?

Kerry

Well, the Razzledog is quite a mutt, with German, American and Australian parentage at the very least... dunno what the Kennel Club would have to say about that! ;)

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Originally Posted by Michael Daily

OK, thanks. That explains the practicality of the size, but is there anything beyond that practicality of "lugging" upslope? Contact printing is understandable--that is the standard of quality. As a sometimes student of Art History and Esthetics, I often wonder at the choices for the particular sizes that are chosen. Mine for 35mm, 4x5, 5x7, and 8x10 are generally driven by the easily available equipment and film, rather than by the esthetic considerations. I work following the conservative philosophy of choosing a camera, lens, film, printing method and materials, and then try to work within those constraints. I'm pretty "strait-laced" in that regard. As such, I often wonder why others choose the ways they do: is it for practical reasons, what is available, or is there some other reason? Thanks for your comments.
Michael

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A lot of it has to do with what's available. In addition to 4x5, 5x7 and 8x10, I've shot several roll film formats, including 6x12cm and 6x17cm. 6x17cm always seemed just a little too long and skinny to me. In the roll film formats, I definitely preferred 6x12cm over 6x17cm. I've been shooting 4x10 on and off for several years and have gotten used to "seeing" in this format. As 7x17 is very similar in aspect ratio, it seemed like a natural progression for me.

Several years ago, Dick Phillips made a few 8x16 cameras. I find the 2:1 aspect ratio interesting (like a supersize 6x12cm), but with only a handful of cameras ever made, the need to get holders custom made (I know, anything above 8x10 these days is a custom made holder, but I did manage to pick up six AWB 7x17 holders on the used market) and the very limted availability of film, it made more sense to go with the better supported 7x17 format.

Kerry

May I ask if unveiling it at the convention has some possible business opportunities or is this strictly for your personal use?

The size and design concept have been in the back of my mind for a while. Can't wait to have a peak!
Congratulations on finishing it,
Dan

After having the Non-Disclosure-Agreement forms properly executed, I got my preview 'peek' at Kerry's new creation... I am sworn to secrecy but wanted to let you all know I am impressed -- and it takes a lot to impress me! I'm really looking forward to watching the story unfold as Kerry ventures into the field with this "King Pano" :)

"King Pano"? Isn't 7x17 too small to be called "Panosaurus Rex"? Maybe "Velocipano". ;)

If Kerry needs any help securing the intellectual property, I have some Sicilian contacts that can assist...

It will need a name.

Franken-Arca is somewhat apt due to the conglomeration of parts, but that implies a major cludge and IMO it looks way too professional to suggest that.

Velocipano -- Hmmmm. Implies light and nimble which is good, but also implies extinct so I don't know... King Kong is at least contemporary sci-fi, strong and yet showed a delicate side -- and still kicked the Tyranosaurus' butt ;)

the Thalmannaitor?

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Originally Posted by Jack Flesher

. . . Velocipano -- Hmmmm. Implies light and nimble which is good, but also implies extinct so I don't know... King Kong is at least contemporary sci-fi, strong and yet showed a delicate side -- and still kicked the Tyranosaurus' butt ;)

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You need to watch more on the Discovery and Science channels, Jack. Velociraptor is the species getting all the air time! ;)

Thalmannator -- I like it! (Though it sounds like a kitchen appliance!)

Ralph, you're probably right, but I only have time to watch about an hour and a half of TV per week as it is ;)

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Originally Posted by Frank Petronio

the Thalmannaitor?

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Not bad. Kerry could call it "Ah-node" for short. But, it may not be beefy enough, and would be spurned by the Sierra Club. ;)

How about "The Talmann Clipper" - sailing up mountain sides, clipping the tops and bottoms of scenes?

Franken-Arca is probably apt. Mary Shelly's creation is hardly a monster or even creature. She describes in her book the attempt to "create", not just animate. Frankenstein's goal was to abolish death and create immortality. The search for perfection lumbers on--for an appreciation of how far the creation of Frankenstein go, see the last quarter of the book and ignore the sensationalizing movies... Bravo, Kerry.
(BTW, this is the level of discussion I have missed elsewhere.)
Michael

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Originally Posted by Dan Jolicoeur

May I ask if unveiling it at the convention has some possible business opportunities or is this strictly for your personal use?

The size and design concept have been in the back of my mind for a while. Can't wait to have a peak!
Congratulations on finishing it,
Dan

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Dan,

The reason it will be unveiled at the large format conference is that it will be the high point of my part of the presentation on Modifying, Assembling and Building Large Format Cameras. Richard Wasserman has also agreed to put his 7x17 Sinar based conversion on display during my presentation. So, there will be two ULF/monorail conversions on display side-by-side. My co-presenter will be J.B. Harlin who has made 4x10 and 8x20 vertical format cameras for his wife Susan. I'm just a guy who likes to tinker with things and leave the dificult parts to people more skillful than I. J.B. is a true craftsman who builds beautiful cameras from scratch. So, hopefully, the presentaion will have something for everyone.

I'd love to offer a line of ULF conversion kits to help people move up to the bigger formats, but it would really depend on market demand. Given the struggles I've seen others have, either supporting existing product lines, or bringing new ULF products to market, I want to make darn sure the business model is sound and the demand sufficient before jumping into a commercial venture of this type.

So, for now, I'm just looking forward to shooting with my newest camera a try to see how well it all works. I suspect it will function nicely, as it's similar in concept to the 4x10 ARCA based convertion I assembled previously.

Kerry

What I would like to see photos of is how you pack it and all the related gear. Even though I am far to lazy to attempt climbs and overnights with a LF camera - heck, I complain about my airline carry-on - I do appreciate your semi-obssesive weight trimming and packing details. Your old Toho article is really one of the best things ever done on the subject.

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Originally Posted by Frank Petronio

What I would like to see photos of is how you pack it and all the related gear. Even though I am far to lazy to attempt climbs and overnights with a LF camera - heck, I complain about my airline carry-on - I do appreciate your semi-obssesive weight trimming and packing details. Your old Toho article is really one of the best things ever done on the subject.

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Frank,

I'm still working out the details on carrying the system. I designed the camera to fold up as compactly as possible - which may have made it a little heavier (more metal, less wood) than it could have been if I was willing to go with a more bulky design. The good news is it collapses very small. Just like the smaller format ARCA-SWISS cameras, the front and rear standards collapse onto a short 15cm rail section. The thickness of the camera body, with lens mounted, is about 5" (basically limited by the length of the ARCA-SWISS function carriers - which are touching when the camera is fully collapsed).

I envision this going in the mail body of a large panel loading backpack, probably along with the film holders. Another posibility is a external pack frame with custom made soft-sided cases/bags. In the maximum configuration (30" max. extension), I end up with a second piece that consists of a 40cm rail/40cm extension bracket that can be stowed elsewhere in the pack. In the minimum configuration (18" max. extension), I substitute a second 15cm rail section and a 30cm extension bracket for the longer rail/extension bracket. This is the same rail configuration I use with my 4x10 Swiss Lotus and supports lenses up to the 450mm Fujinon C.

Once I get this all figured out, and use it in the field for a while, I plan to write an article on the whole experience - everything from designing/building the camera to using it in the field. Who knows, it may even lead to a series of articles on ULF cameras, lenses, techniques, etc. There seems to be a growing interest in the ultra large formats over the last year or two. I wrote an article on mammoth cameras for View Camera a couple years ago, but new brands and models have come to market and others apparently are gone. Perhaps an update is in order.

Kerry

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Originally Posted by Michael Daily

Franken-Arca is probably apt. Mary Shelly's creation is hardly a monster or even creature. She describes in her book the attempt to "create", not just animate. Frankenstein's goal was to abolish death and create immortality. The search for perfection lumbers on--for an appreciation of how far the creation of Frankenstein go, see the last quarter of the book and ignore the sensationalizing movies... Bravo, Kerry.
(BTW, this is the level of discussion I have missed elsewhere.)
Michael

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Michael

I like Franken-ARCA. I'm hopeful that the switch to the ultra large format, black and white film and contact printing will breath some new life into my photography. Perfection is a stretch goal - immortality only a dream.

Kerry

That's "Fraunk n steen."

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Originally Posted by Bill_1856

That's "Fraunk n steen."

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One of my favorite scenes in the movie!

:D :D :D :D

The scene with Gene Wilder and the Creature performing 'puttin' on the ritz' ... as a scientific demonstration ... makes me pee in my pants every time i watch.

Also in the Mary Shelly parody department ... can anyone identify this quote:

"Those fellows at Radio Shack said I was mad, but who's mad NOW??!!"

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Originally Posted by paulr

Also in the Mary Shelly parody department ... can anyone identify this quote:

"Those fellows at Radio Shack said I was mad, but who's mad NOW??!!"

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John Caradine: Everything You Wanted to Know about Sex...(?)

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Originally Posted by Frank Petronio

..... It might be OK in the Northwest cause they're all hippie types anyway, but I'm fearing for the breakdown of tradtional formats and solid, rectangular values. ..... Standards are important I tell you!

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Frank, you're just too square! Lighten up man - I'm sure the manufacturer of the "FarnARCA 717" has a very firm understanding of the importance of standards - both front and rear ..... :D

Kerry, I can't wait for the unveiling. My suggested name comes from an Aussie term - "farnarkling" - which means to spend time doing pseudo-productive work. Sort of like what I'm doing now instead of actually performing the work I'm paid for on company time .... ;)

Cheers,
Graeme

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Originally Posted by Bill_1856

John Caradine: Everything You Wanted to Know about Sex...(?)

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more recent than that.

hint ... he refers to the creature as "the greatest advance in labor relations since the cat-o-nine-tails."

OK, now that the Franken-ARCA has made it's public debut at the conference in Rockford, here's some pics of the completed camera:

http://www.thalmann.com/Franken_ARCA/Franken-ARCA_1.jpg
The camera with a 600mm Fujinon C focused at about 100ft. I have enough rail and bellows for about 6½" - 7" more extension.

http://www.thalmann.com/Franken_ARCA/Franken-ARCA_2.jpg
The front and rear standards compressed onto a short 15cm rail section. Even with a lens mounted (240mm Computar) the thickness of the camera is about 5" (with the little rail section sticking out by about an inch).

http://www.thalmann.com/Franken_ARCA/Franken-ARCA_3.jpg
The camera with a 305mm G Claron focused at about 20ft.

Kerry

Franken, my foot - nothing crude or half baked about this one. Kerry, that's fabulous. Congratulations on a really nice piece of work!

I agree with Oren. You'll have to come up with a different name for it, Kerry. I see no ugly "stitch marks" on this beauty.

I like it!

My .02 addition would be to either anodize or paint the rear support frame black, then to strip the wood (admittedly beautiful) and stain it a deep dark ebony color. I think that it would look super slick, and a little less piecemeal, if it were all black.

Well -- seems to me Viktor Frankenstein named his creation "Adam"...

Very nice, Doktor, but can it dance? Lovely work! Congratulations on the birth of your creation and a successful coming out party.
Michael

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Originally Posted by Sheldon N

I like it!

My .02 addition would be to either anodize or paint the rear support frame black, then to strip the wood (admittedly beautiful) and stain it a deep dark ebony color. I think that it would look super slick, and a little less piecemeal, if it were all black.

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The company that makes the aluminum t-slot extrusions also offers them in black anodized. However, to keep the cost down I used "mill ends" bought as surplus on eBay (basically the left over bits and pieces from other people's orders). I did pick up a couple shorter black anodized sections, but haven't been able to get one long enough for the cross brace. Perhaps if I really like using this camera, I may order the custom black anodized parts to make it look more "stock" and less piecemeal. For now, I just plan to use it as is for a while and see how well it works and how much I like it. First things first.

Kerry

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Originally Posted by Ralph Barker

I agree with Oren. You'll have to come up with a different name for it, Kerry. I see no ugly "stitch marks" on this beauty.

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Oren and Ralph,

Thanks for the comments. I actually like the name Franken-ARCA. It has kind of grown on me.

Kerry

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Originally Posted by Sheldon N

I like it!

My .02 addition would be to either anodize or paint the rear support frame black, then to strip the wood (admittedly beautiful) and stain it a deep dark ebony color. I think that it would look super slick, and a little less piecemeal, if it were all black.

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Oops, I almost forgot. At one point I thought about painting the wood parts black, but decided I liked the beauty of the mahogany too much (I picked special pieces for the rear frame just for the beauty of the grain). Besides, thanks to Canham and Lotus there is a precedence for cameras combining beautiful natural wood with black anodized metal work.

Kerry

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Originally Posted by paulr

more recent than that.

hint ... he refers to the creature as "the greatest advance in labor relations since the cat-o-nine-tails."

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Okay, I give up. What is it from?

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Originally Posted by Bill_1856

Okay, I give up. What is it from?

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The Simpsons!

Montgomery Burns creates a giant robotic creature which he hopes will replace the entire human workforce at the nuclear power plant ('lazy slugabeds! they'll be sucking at my teet no longer ...')

Awesome job Kerry! I would not paint or stain the wiood as I like the hybrid 'look'.

You can always have the aluminum parts anondized by a shop. Places around here charge a minimum of $99 though.

Great looking camera BTW.

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Originally Posted by Frank R

You can always have the aluminum parts anondized by a shop. Places around here charge a minimum of $99 though.

Great looking camera BTW.

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Frank,

The parts have already been clear anodized. I'm not a plating expert, but is it possible to re-anodize them in black without stripping off the existing finish?

Kerry