Mobility with a Toyo 45G

Hello all, need some help. I may have bitten off more than I can chew. I just shelved my Crown Graphic for a Toyo View 45G. It is beautiful and looks to be in great shape, it arrived yesterday from Japan (thank you Mr. Kumar), so I have yet to shoot it. Yes, I'm aware I purchased a studio camera for field work, but it was an affordable way to get a camera with all the movements and capabilities.

A trunk/case would help getting around but not ideal for hiking into the woods. ANY help is appreciated, and I mean any. I guess I'm looking for a backpack but could also use some advice on how to collapse and pack this beast without doing any damage.
Thank you.

Michael

I've backpacked my Toyo 45G but only by taking it apart:

Unclip the bellows front and back and stow them in a protective case or bag.
Unlatch the rail clamp and stow it.
Slide front and back standards off the rail then wrap and pack them them separately and securely in the backpack. Rail goes anywhere convenient.

On arrival at the photography site re-assemble the camera and go shoot. I then carry the camera mounted on its tripod across my shoulder that is padded with the focussing cloth.

At the end of the day dis-assemble the camera and put it in the backpack. It's all do-able but darn inconvenient compared to my Tachihara folding field camera.

When I was using my 45G, I modified a stroller for babies. I remove the seat and replaced it by a piece of plywood.

I used those stroller with big inflatable wheels so I could walk in trails with my camera.

But I decided to buy a lighter (and smaller) camera: A Meridian 45B. Since I can back pack it and I have now access to places where the 45G couldn't go.

Have a nice day!

These two responses say it all -- and so did you: "I may have bitten off more than I can chew."

A lesson I learned a long time before I started backpacking with a Toko 4x5 field camera -- It's never too late to turn back.

50 years or so ago I backpacked with a Linhof Kardan Bi 5 x 7. I had a short rail fabricated that was just long enough to hold the two standards separated just far enough to allow the camera to be mounted in the rail clamp that I carried attached to the tripod. Setup consisted of putting the tripod in place, mounting the short rail with standards, and attaching the full rail. Quick and easy.

I backpacked my Calumet CC400 monorail camera, virtually the same as Maris described. Eventually, and after about two years of use, I managed to pick up my Shen Hao HZX45-IIA wooden folder, which has quite a lot of movements for a wooden folder.

I now have and use a Toyo 45G and agree that you have an excellent camera with pretty much all movements and then some. Probably more than you will mostly ever need, but obviously very nice to have.

Only once have I carried my Toyo 45G in a backpack, I configured the camera as close together as possible using a very small rail I picked up in a photographic flea market, carried it in a backpack with all the other stuff, added the standard rail to the chopped rail and I was in business.

One thing I did do, was to pick up a Toyo to Linhof lens board adaptor, as shown here with my 90mm lens attached. This way I don't need to swop lenses from one sized board to another. If you intend in the future to possibly have a folding camera, then this may be helpful for that camera, with the benefit of no added cost.





Attachment 244944

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Originally Posted by Maris Rusis

I've backpacked my Toyo 45G but only by taking it apart:

Unclip the bellows front and back and stow them in a protective case or bag.
Unlatch the rail clamp and stow it.
Slide front and back standards off the rail then wrap and pack them them separately and securely in the backpack. Rail goes anywhere convenient.

On arrival at the photography site re-assemble the camera and go shoot. I then carry the camera mounted on its tripod across my shoulder that is padded with the focussing cloth.

At the end of the day dis-assemble the camera and put it in the backpack. It's all do-able but darn inconvenient compared to my Tachihara folding field camera.

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Thank you for the detailed help. I am going to need to learn how to tear this down and build it back up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Naej

When I was using my 45G, I modified a stroller for babies. I remove the seat and replaced it by a piece of plywood.

I used those stroller with big inflatable wheels so I could walk in trails with my camera.

But I decided to buy a lighter (and smaller) camera: A Meridian 45B. Since I can back pack it and I have now access to places where the 45G couldn't go.

Have a nice day!

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Wow. I've seen a vid where the gentleman was using one of those children's wagons that had the fabric sides. Baby stroller is an interesting idea.

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Originally Posted by xkaes

These two responses say it all -- and so did you: "I may have bitten off more than I can chew."

A lesson I learned a long time before I started backpacking with a Toko 4x5 field camera -- It's never too late to turn back.

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Well, I still have my Crown Graphic. There is a very nice wooden folding 4x5 in my future, it's just very far in the future. Thanx.

I prefer my DIY Rickshaw

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...1837aaa2_b.jpgCamera Cart 3 by TIN CAN COLLEGE, on Flickr

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Originally Posted by Jim Andrada

50 years or so ago I backpacked with a Linhof Kardan Bi 5 x 7. I had a short rail fabricated that was just long enough to hold the two standards separated just far enough to allow the camera to be mounted in the rail clamp that I carried attached to the tripod. Setup consisted of putting the tripod in place, mounting the short rail with standards, and attaching the full rail. Quick and easy.

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Yes, I saw a guy on youtube use a 3D printer to make the 150mm rail that is difficult to find, just as you've described. Is there any reason I can't cut a 150mm length of a dowel rod of the same diameter?

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Originally Posted by Tin Can

I prefer my DIY Rickshaw

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...1837aaa2_b.jpgCamera Cart 3 by TIN CAN COLLEGE, on Flickr

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That's awesome and looks quite simple. Something even I can make.

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Originally Posted by Mick Fagan

I backpacked my Calumet CC400 monorail camera, virtually the same as Maris described. Eventually, and after about two years of use, I managed to pick up my Shen Hao HZX45-IIA wooden folder, which has quite a lot of movements for a wooden folder.

I now have and use a Toyo 45G and agree that you have an excellent camera with pretty much all movements and then some. Probably more than you will mostly ever need, but obviously very nice to have.

Only once have I carried my Toyo 45G in a backpack, I configured the camera as close together as possible using a very small rail I picked up in a photographic flea market, carried it in a backpack with all the other stuff, added the standard rail to the chopped rail and I was in business.

One thing I did do, was to pick up a Toyo to Linhof lens board adaptor, as shown here with my 90mm lens attached. This way I don't need to swop lenses from one sized board to another. If you intend in the future to possibly have a folding camera, then this may be helpful for that camera, with the benefit of no added cost.





Attachment 244944

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The 150mm rail is available, just not in the budget currently. My Toyo came with that exact conversion board. I haven't checked but it's probably asking too much for that Linhof board to fit the Graphic.

When shooting scenics with a 4x5 or a 8x10 camera, that required hiking, best is a soft bag white nayga with holders and stuff (Zone VI Monorail Bag/discreet), and a thick pillow on my shoulder. Also DOMKE Post Office Pad from B&H. Balance the wooden tripod/camera, sling the bag, and off you go. Worked good for long day hikes. When I was to where I wanted to go, I was glad to have 4x5 Norma for experimental shots. If I really liked the scene and wanted to rework it, I would sling the 8x10 Norma. When the wind is blowing hard, the Norma cuts the mustard. And so precise to use. Most here use folders, not my preference. No torture involved, only shooting bliss.

Get or make a short rail, I've made bunches of them. Carry the whole thing around in one piece. Quite often I was not going that far.

I want to thank all of you for the good advice. I'm guilty of comparing apples to oranges. I have seen only 3 monorail cameras in person at local camera shops over the last year. These were Cambo, Calumet, Omega (I do know some of these are made by the same companies). All of these were the simple, budget models where parts were simpler, and nothing was geared and, obviously, much lighter.

I knew I was getting "too much camera", I wanted to slowly learn it and hopefully grow into it. Just didn't count on the weight.

Another question. The four "posts" on the standards have a plastic plug. I removed one and noticed the posts are threaded. I'm thinking this is for an accessory, maybe adding post to increase the rise and fall range? I saw a video where a woman had a Cambo SC2 and these posts were long enough that she could easily set the camera on a table upside down resting on the 4 posts. Seems like a great way to handle/store it while not on a tripod. Would it be possible to pick up 4 short bolts from the hardware store to use? Can't hurt anything, right?

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Originally Posted by Daniel Unkefer

When shooting scenics with a 4x5 or a 8x10 camera, that required hiking, best is a soft bag white nayga with holders and stuff (Zone VI Monorail Bag/discreet), and a thick pillow on my shoulder. Also DOMKE Post Office Pad from B&H. Balance the wooden tripod/camera, sling the bag, and off you go. Worked good for long day hikes. When I was to where I wanted to go, I was glad to have 4x5 Norma for experimental shots. If I really liked the scene and wanted to rework it, I would sling the 8x10 Norma. When the wind is blowing hard, the Norma cuts the mustard. And so precise to use. Most here use folders, not my preference. No torture involved, only shooting bliss.

Get or make a short rail, I've made bunches of them. Carry the whole thing around in one piece. Quite often I was not going that far.

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Yes, I saw someone 3D print a small rail to collapse it down further. I was thinking of cutting down a dowel rod, assuming I can find one of the same diameter. May I ask how you made yours?

I bought a standard rail (in rough condition missing parts), and cut it down. I use my Lil' Machine Shop Electric Bandsaw, to cut down all kinds of things. Anybody with a shop could do this for you. Not sure how yours works but should be doable.

That's a good idea, thank you.

I apologize to Mr. Kumar, it seems I did not buy this camera from him. oops

It's basically the Japanese cousin to the classic Sinar Norma model, which easily fits, fully set up with an 24 inch rail, in the top compartment of my vintage (US made) Kelty Tioga external frame backpack. Way more load capacity, better gear protection, and more comfortable to carry than any "camera pack". Over the decades, I've backpacked over 15,000 miles of difficult terrain in this manner using the Sinar system. Now in my mid-70's, I now use Sinar only for day hikes. For long treks I now substitute a lightweight Ebony 4X5 folder instead.

If you like the perspective of long lenses, like I do, monorails are wonderful. But they can be rapidly converted to short lens usage too. They're more versatile and quicker to set up than folders. It's a myth they're suitable only for studio use.

It's basically the Japanese cousin to the classic Sinar Norma model, which easily fits, fully set up with an 24 inch rail, in the top compartment of my vintage (US made) Kelty Tioga external frame backpack. Over the decades, I've backpacked at least 15,000 miles using the Sinar system. Now in my mid-70's, I use that only for day hikes. For long treks I substitute a lightweight Ebony 4X5 folder instead.

If you like the perspective of long lenses, like I do, monorails are wonderful. But they can rapidly be converted to short lens usage too. They're much more versatile than folders, and faster to set up. It's myth that monorail cameras are only suitable for studio use.

I used to hike with calumet metal 4x5 in a rectangular canvas duffle bag. I added A shaped inserts that let the camera hang upside down on its rails. Plenty of room for lenses, holders, and accessories in ICUs. Mine had a heavy duty shoulder strap but it was still a beast to carry when you consider I also had the polaroid processor and a metal tripod too. I still use that duffle bag as my weekend getaway luggage.

Similar to this one
LLBEAN duffle

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Originally Posted by Daniel Unkefer

Quite often I was not going that far.

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That says it all. I use a folder -- "no torture involved" on my week-long treks.

While the Toyo 45G is larger than the D45M, it is not impossible to carry it in a backpack. Here is a comparison photo of the Toyo D45M and a Wista 45D:
https://www.largeformatphotography.i...=1#post1323746

Kumar

xkaes - I desperately miss that "torture". Wish I was still younger. But torture is more likely the result of an inappropriate pack than what's inside it. The Sinar system was bulky and took up quite a bit of pack space, so I trained myself to live on only one main meal a day, and then forage and fish for the rest. One time, maybe around 11,000, while excitedly aiming my Sinar at something interesting, I was suddenly dizzy, and couldn't figure out what was wrong with me. So I sat down on a nearby rock, and realized that I hadn't eaten a thing for the past 24 hrs, despite lugging over 80 lbs the past week. I was so taken in by the views themselves, that I was totally distracted from even giving myself a snack. A granola bar cured it.

We all have a masochistic streak, but mine ends at the end of my TOKO bellows -- leaving lots of room for granola.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...fccd0667_h.jpgFallingwater 1 by Nokton48, on Flickr

This was not an easy hike. When I got to here I was mighty glad I had the 4x5 Norma with me. The front and rear standards can "touch together" with the Norma. Can't do that with a folder :)

Probably the most famous (world over) architectural site, Frank Lloyd Wright's "Fallingwater". My second time visiting, this time 4x5 B&W only. A venerated spot. I did not see any tripod holes :) It is even a postage stamp

When I got back into LF a few years ago, I bought a 45G from Japan because it fit my budget and the weight wasn't a huge concern - I really only do wet plate now and you can't get more than ~10 minutes or so trot away from the vehicle/darkroom anyways.

It is definitely awkward to carry. I used one of those insulated bags for groceries to transport it in the car, which was very cheap and provided some limited protection. In the field I'd just pop it off the tripod and carry it upside down by the rail in one hand, tripod across my shoulder and supported by the other hand, with a backpack containing lenses, darkcloth, and other accessories. If I needed to scramble up some rocks or something I'd put them both down on the ledge above, climb up/down, then pick them up again and keep going.

I've also used a pram for getting the gear + darktent further into the field, but you need a decent quality trail for that which is not always available. Uphill can be a bit of a trial too.

Having owned both, IMO the Rittreck View is a better "budget" compromise for field work than a Toyo 45G in most cases. It is significantly heavier than a 4x5 wooden field camera, but a lot cheaper, and compared to the 45G, lighter and more compact, plus can do 5x7 (and other formats) if you buy the corresponding back. They are very well-built, I've beat the absolute hell out of mine and it still mostly works.

How well does that work if you need to scramble up or down several thousand feet of rocks or ice? ... Maybe someone will figure out how to make monorail sections function as skis, and riser rods as trekking poles. But there are problems with double-duty schemes. A buddy of mine had one of those ultralight tents where you use you trekking poles as tent poles. But then he didn't have those poles available for crossing a creek in the evening, where he slipped and damaged some very expensive camera gear, plus his ankle.

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Originally Posted by Drew Wiley

How well does that work if you need to scramble up or down several thousand feet of rocks or ice? ...

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Well I really don't anticipate ever doing what you do :)

Norma & I HAVE been in some what I would call potentially dangerous situations.

She has come through maybe with a scratch or too. Never busted.

She's cheap and relatively available.

I used a Omega View camera for a couple decades - which I packed around everywhere. What I ended up doing, was to buy an additional rail, and cut it down very short so that I could shoot with the 90mm and 75mm lens, but also put it into the pack-sack. When I wanted more extension then I put it on the regular rail.

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Originally Posted by esearing

I used to hike with calumet metal 4x5 in a rectangular canvas duffle bag. I added A shaped inserts that let the camera hang upside down on its rails. Plenty of room for lenses, holders, and accessories in ICUs. Mine had a heavy duty shoulder strap but it was still a beast to carry when you consider I also had the polaroid processor and a metal tripod too. I still use that duffle bag as my weekend getaway luggage.

Similar to this one
LLBEAN duffle

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That might work for me. I was thinking of building some supports into a storage bin just to keep it when not in use. I was thinking "backpack", but duffle bag never crossed my mind. Might even be able to use the same supports for both. Thank you.

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Originally Posted by Daniel Unkefer

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...fccd0667_h.jpgFallingwater 1 by Nokton48, on Flickr

This was not an easy hike. When I got to here I was mighty glad I had the 4x5 Norma with me. The front and rear standards can "touch together" with the Norma. Can't do that with a folder :)

Probably the most famous (world over) architectural site, Frank Lloyd Wright's "Fallingwater". My second time visiting, this time 4x5 B&W only. A venerated spot. I did not see any tripod holes :) It is even a postage stamp

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That's a great shot. Only about 45 minutes from me. My first time there was a field trip about 1978.

Daniel - hanging out with a cheap gal like Norma might cause people in society to look down on you. Are you implying getting caught with her is a dangerous situation? Does she have another boyfriend?

Pigpen - I've come across mint condition vintage real backpacks very affordably at garage sales etc. Some of these were very expensive and way better made than what you find in outdoor stores today. They bought them with some trip in mind, then never even used them. Just check for proper sizing for you personally. Why lug a glorified gunny sack around? - That won't be nice to your spine.

With my vintage Kelty external frame pack and similar ones, for day hiking, I simply drop a plastic kitchen wastebasket into the top compartment. Then the monorail drops in there fully assembled and ready to go, even with 24 inches of rail sections installed, resting crosswise below the top flap. There room for film holders below. Darkcloth is already attached, lenses etc in side pouches.

When I want to use my 8x10 folder instead, I just slip in its own container, right into the top; same goes for med format kits. For long haul backpacking, I use my goose down jacket as packing and insulation instead of a kitchen can.

Another nice thing about traveling with monorails is that if you are interested in shooting architecture or ruins on the same trip, you've got ideal gear. Just shorten your rail and substitute a bag bellows if necessary, like Daniel did - if Norma is still speaking to him! (She might not be happy about becoming shorter).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Drew Wiley

Pigpen - I've come across mint condition vintage real backpacks very affordably at garage sales etc. Some of these were very expensive and way better made than what you find in outdoor stores today. They bought them with some trip in mind, then never even used them. Just check for proper sizing for you personally. Why lug a glorified gunny sack around? - That won't be nice to your spine.

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Yeah, but he'll learn a valuable lesson -- how expensive trips to the Chiropractor are!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Drew Wiley

How well does that work if you need to scramble up or down several thousand feet of rocks or ice? ... Maybe someone will figure out how to make monorail sections function as skis, and riser rods as trekking poles. But there are problems with double-duty schemes. A buddy of mine had one of those ultralight tents where you use you trekking poles as tent poles. But then he didn't have those poles available for crossing a creek in the evening, where he slipped and damaged some very expensive camera gear, plus his ankle.

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I can say with near absolute confidence I am not going to be scrambling up several thousand feet of rocks/ice with my LF setup + darkroom.

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Originally Posted by pigpen

That's a great shot. Only about 45 minutes from me. My first time there was a field trip about 1978.

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Thanks Pigpen!

Tom Abrahamsson visited Fallingwater with the Leica Historical Society, and he studied this photograph. His response "You should have used an 8x10".

Ha Ha! :)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...af12ef0f_h.jpg1992 Great Sand Dunes No 3 by Nokton48, on Flickr

I was sinking knee-deep into the sand. This is a glorious experience. I stayed in this spot quite a while just enjoying everything about this. 4x5 Sinar Norma 90mm f8 Norma Super Angulon HP5 d76 1:1. 8x10 fibre print Fortezo Dektol 1:2 Omega Dii Omegalite 180mm black Rodagon.

For years, I used a Calumet CC401 with the 22-inch rail. It came with a nice case that I lugged around outside, but never venturing far from my car. The case was multipurpose— a handy step-stool when the camera was high on the tripod, and a bench on which I could rest between shots and contemplate how I might have screwed up my exposures. I have a Norma now that looks to be a great field camera if I ever decide to leave my basement studio take it on the road.

Great Sand Dunes National Park I assume???

Those dunes are hard enough to climb WITHOUT an 8x10.

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Originally Posted by xkaes

Great Sand Dunes National Park I assume???

Those dunes are hard enough to climb WITHOUT an 8x10.

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Yep. Great Sand Dunes 1992. Not an easy climb but well worth it. Sand was blowing up to my waist; If I lowered Norma it would have been the end of her. But no all was perfect-o.

The famous Fallingwater shot was what TomA was referring to, needing to be in 8x10. If I ever go again I will do it!