Picking up a De Vere 5108

I'm supposed to pick up a 5108 floor model next weekend and have a few questions on disassembly for transport. I already have the owner's manual and I know to raise the head to the top of the column before removing it to avoid the catapult effect. Where I'm a little unsure is how to remove the top column from the base and also, how to remove the focusing rods and if anything needs to be tightened to make the 14 hour trip home in my minivan. If anyone can post some photos it would be great. At least I'm saving another 8x10 enlarger from scrap! Thanks, Luis

The top column just bolts to the base it's all explained well in the user manual. It's a 2 person job but quite easy. Make sure you tighten the nuts so that the gear wheels & chains don't drop, it's a fiddly and messy job if they do.

Ian

In case you weren't sure, I removed the head from the neg stage as well as that's fairly heavy by itself. For transport, I actually kept the negative stage lowered but secured it with multiple cam straps as I found it easier to transport this way. The base of the entrée enlarger was removed from the column itself and make sure you have enough height in your darkroom as there's a brace that secures the top of the column to the wall.

Ok, I took some photos of the enlarger at the lab I use. Just want to make sure we're all talking about the same bolts. Frankly the manual could be a little better illustrated.

To remove the upper chassis, I assume you remove the 7 bolts labeled #1 in these two photos. Removing the two bolts labeled #2 which link the base focusing handwheels to the upper chassis is the one I'm having issues. Does that bolt unscrew and come out the front? It's supposed to be a friction fit.

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The nut that tightens the gear wheels & chains, is that bold #3 in this photo? Do I need to slacken it to separate the two halfs and then re-tighten it? Bolt #4 just holds the timer tray and can be removed.

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I'm assuming that the handwheels don't have to be removed, just the head and baseboard. Many thanks! L

First remove the part that the timers etc sit on #4 in the 3rd photo, then tighten up the bolts marked #3 in the same photo they stop the gears/chains wheels dropping. Then remove #2 before removing all marked #1.

The had wheels and the frame for the enlarger bed stay in place but the wooden base itself needs to be removed, it's 4 bolts and quick and easy.

Ian

Thanks Ian! I'll post some photos once I get the beast home. Have to figure out where to put it, and if I'm going to replace my Durst SM-183 in the darkroom with the 5108. Only have room for 1 8x10 sized enlarger!

Congratulations ! If Durst is the Ferrari of enlargers then the Devere must be the Bentley !

Thanks Gudmundur. I figure if I have both, I can use the one I like best and keep the other as a spare until I enlarge my darkroom (pun intended). Do you still have your 4 Dursts? Are you planing a trip to the States anytime soon? L

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Originally Posted by Luis-F-S

Thanks Ian! I'll post some photos once I get the beast home. Have to figure out where to put it, and if I'm going to replace my Durst SM-183 in the darkroom with the 5108. Only have room for 1 8x10 sized enlarger!

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Congrats! I only have room for two 8x10 enlargers in my darkroom, but I only have 1...

Hah!

Anyway congrats on saving that one, I saved my 8x10 Saltzman from the scrap heap. I specifically made sure to leave room for a second one. Right now there will be a 4x5 there to hold its place ;)

Really some day I hope to have a second for experimenting, or perhaps an 11x14 head. Someday, for now it's all about building this darkroom, lucky yours is already up and running ;)

Enjoy it! Make good prints!

I need to reorganize my darkroom and try and recrute younger people to teach them darkroom. Our times are lazy and people that never have seen a nice silver print think that Silver Efftects Pro and and Epson make "awesome" prints.

Nice going, Luis. My mentor has a 5108 and I'm going to use it to print 4x10 negatives. I even got a power cable from RH Designs that goes between the 5108 and the RH Designs f stop timer. It's nifty.

Yeah, Gudmundur, show people some real silver prints. I'm tired of hearing how inkjet has surpassed silver. I just don't see it.

Thanks Larry, do you have your 138 working the way you want it? I my have to store my Durst if I decide to set up the DeVere. I'll just have to wait and see which one I prefer to print with. I'm having an adaptor board made for the Devere to let me mount my Lapla mounted lenses on it. That way I don't have to get all new Devere lens boards!

Big decision but you search for a 8x10. You cannot go wrong with a DeVere.
What head will you have?

I've been having fun printing with an Ilford 500 head and an adaptor box. I've been meaning to start a thread on my setup. Ginette (Hi!) helped by providing the dimensions of the box and Jay from NewVisionPhoto on eBay got the box fabricated. I'm grateful for their help!

Working with the densitometer function in the RH Designs Analyzer 500 has been enlightening. I can nail a good print right away, no test strips. After that, it's easy to see where you can go with a print. I know the timer will soon pay for itself in paper savings.

Ginette, it has the Dichroimat head. It looks like a relatively new unit, will see how it works when I pick it up. L

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Larry, is the Ilford head 4x5 or 5x7? Have never used the RH timer. How does the analyser work? This one has the DeVere timer, so I guess I'll use that for right now.

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Originally Posted by Luis-F-S

It looks like a relatively new unit, ...

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Wow!

The lab I use has two 5108's and 3 504 DeVeres that they'll be getting rid of at some point. Haven't been used in 10 or so years. Unfortunately, all have closed loop heads, or I'd get one of those, but I really want the manual dichromat head. I'm sure I'll pick up some "spare parts" when they decide to get rid of them. I'll post when those are ready to go in case someone wants to make a trip to the Big Easy.

I have the same colour head on mine but it has a relay unit attached to the side that allows the fans to remain running for an adjustable time after the exposure or when it's been on for focussing etc.

Ian

Make sure to check max contrast. DeVere's have the filters between the halogen and the heat reflecting glass. The filters do fade. When I replaced them on my 504, max contrast jumped up a full grade.

That's the head on my mentor's 5108. Yours looks minty fresh, nice!

The Ilford 500 head covers 5x7 if you use the 6x7 mixing box and the adaptor box to raise the head so that the inverse square law related to light falloff covers 5x7. Out of the box, the Ilford head only covers 4x5.

The Analyzer 500 timer has a probe that is used to sample different areas of a negative. You have to be sure to turn off the safelight when sampling. The sampled densities are placed on a gray scale that is displayed on the timer. The scale runs from white with texture to black with texture.

After you have your samples, you manipulate your contrast and exposure to get the sampled values at either end of the scale, if your negative has a full range of tonality. You can also do things like sample a skin tone and place it on the scale. After that, you press print. The head operates solely in split contrast mode, making two exposures, one for shadows and one for highlights.

Out of the box, the Analyzer 500 timer is calibrated for Ilford RC papers. I need to calibrate it for Ilford Fibre classic but it is not that far off, considering.

Thanks, but I seldom print anything harder than a Grade 3. My negatives are developed to typically print on Gr 2 paper.

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Originally Posted by IanG

I have the same colour head on mine but it has a relay unit attached to the side that allows the fans to remain running for an adjustable time after the exposure or when it's been on for focussing etc. Ian

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Ian, was that a DeVere part or an add-on? Can you send a photo or some info on it?

Yeah, the timer is great for my 35mm street work where I can't control contrast of each shot.

Larry, can you post some photos of the new L-138 head? Would be curious to see how it works. L

Hello Luis,
I created a new thread with some pictures of my setup. Enjoy!

Here's a picture of the beast right before it was dismantled into 3 pieces so it would fit in the mini-van. Thanks for all the suggestions from folks on how to take it apart. It was owned by a photo studio who bought it new for their own use, so it's a one owner machine and never seen commercial work. Looks brand new! It's one of the later models with the black colored head and stabilizer. Went ahead and also bought the 300 Apo-Rodagon that was on it, mostly for the lens mount. Boy that's one heavy lens! If I can't mount my 240 Rodagon, then I'll remount it on the 300 board. I'm having an adapter made to mount Durst Lapla boards on the DeVere board. Also have 5 board for the DeVere; 2 of them recessed for the shorter lenses.

Have made it back to Atlanta from Richmond today, will drive home tomorrow, then unload on Sunday and then see when I get the energy to dismantle the SM-183 and put the 5108 in it's place. I'm going to set it up in the garage first, to make sure everything works before I go through the effort of setting it up in the darkroom. I'll store the Durst for a while and decide at some future point if I want to keep both or not! I've got so much Durst stuff, it would be a pain to piece it out. L

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lucky, lucky man. That's the enlarger I want in my own darkroom one day :). But for now, not enough space :(

Sweet! Congratulations!

That thing is in pristine condition. What a great find.

The timer on my mentor's enlarger is messed up, here is a picture of it, which is why I bought a power cable from Secondhand Darkroom to connect the power supply on the 5108 to an RH Designs timer.

Attachment 133570

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Originally Posted by Luis-F-S

Ian, was that a DeVere part or an add-on? Can you send a photo or some info on it?

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I'd guess the relay was added after, it's an RS Components 240V 0.2 sec - 20 second Time Delay relay. RS are the largest supplier of electronic parts etc in the UK but this relay is probably 20+ years old and no longer listed.. It has 4 wire into the enlarger but I've not opened up the head to see how it's wired up. The UK heads are 240V and use 2 pairs of 120V bulbs in series you'd presumably need a 120v time delay relay.

Ian

Larry, I have a couple spare De Vere timers if you need one. However, the RH Designs ones are much better!

Peter, how is the RH Design better? The one on my enlarger is in good working order with a foot switch.

The RH Design is an f-stop timer, one with easily programmable exposure sequences, and a great test strip mode. When using it, you don't think in time. You think in stops. "I need to burn 1/6th of a stop in the upper left...."
You can calculate all of that, of course, but the StopClock Pro makes it very easy.

Everything in photography refers to stops, which are a geometric series, so it never made sense to me that people print with linear times, which do not correlate with stops. Enter the f stop timer.

The f stop timer can be set to increments of 1/2,1/3,1/4,1/6,1/12 stops so you can have very fine control over the exposure times.

The test strip mode is cool. You expose the paper for a base exposure time, and then progressively cover the paper at each subsequent exposure. The timer calculates the next fractional stop time automatically, you just keep pressing the foot pedal.

When you look at the developed print, you will see a very even progression of exposures. You count up from the base exposure to what you want, and then press the up time button that many times. Very simple.

You could use a piece of paper with f stop times, but you'll go crazy entering the fractional times, LOL. I tried that once. There is a table of the f stop times in the back of the Beyond Monochrome book.

The Analyzer 500 is even niftier than the base f stop timer because it allows you to sample densities and place tones on a zone system scale displayed on the timer with LEDs and move them around based on contrast and exposure.

The Beyond Monochrome book has a chapter on f stop printing and includes a timing chart:

http://www.waybeyondmonochrome.com/W...xposureEd2.pdf

Oh, the timer also takes care of automatically extending exposure times to deal with reciprocity failure. Emulsion on paper is the same as emulsion on a film base, so reciprocity failure comes into play as exposures get longer.

I find the following very useful. If one can't memorize the numbers, just write them down on the calculator.

1 stop multiply or divide by 2
1/2 stop; multiply or divide by 1.4
1/3 stop; multiply or divide by 1.26
1/4 stop; multiply or divide by 1.19

Got the 5108 set up in the darkroom and started "playing" with it. The baseboard is larger than the L-184, so it's a bit more cramped. The base felt a bit lighter than the Durst; it wasn't fun separating the column from the base in the Durst. With the SM-183 there was no need to attach it to the wall, with the DeVere you need to otherwise there's too much sway when raising/lowering the head. Have the Durst all packed in pieces until I decide what to do with it. In all, I really like the De Vere 5108, need to get a 6x6 & a 35mm mask for the negative holder.

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Larry, clear your inbox!

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Originally Posted by Luis-F-S

Got the 5108 set up in the darkroom and started "playing" with it. The baseboard is larger than the L-184, so it's a bit more cramped. The base felt a bit lighter than the Durst; it wasn't fun separating the column from the base in the Durst. With the SM-183 there was no need to attach it to the wall, with the DeVere you need to otherwise there's too much sway when raising/lowering the head. Have the Durst all packed in pieces until I decide what to do with it. In all, I really like the De Vere 5108, need to get a 6x6 & a 35mm mask for the negative holder.

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You will have to edit your profile Luis!
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What is the height of this DeVere color head? I look much lower than the Durst diffusion box +head, and I think the Durst 8x10 diffusion box is higher than 5x7 you have. Maybe it can be an option for the Durst 184 with a low ceiling.

Still have my Durst, so I guess I'll keep my profile for a while. One of the nice things about the De Vere 5108 is that the head is not that tall, just 11" above the negative holder. The Durst colorheads are beasts! Also, not having the external fan is nice, though the fans in my Dichromat head run continuously, so a little more noise.

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Originally Posted by Luis-F-S

One of the nice things about the De Vere 5108 is that the head is not that tall, just 11" above the negative holder. .

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I noticed that in the pictures. Also, seeing that you can fit a chair under the baseboard. I have my baseboard quite low and use a gardener's kneeling pad when printing. This and then also the exact same 3-step ladder to fiddle with the head.

Here is a picture of the L1840 / CLS2000 when I first got it as a size comparison to the De Vere 5108 and Durst 184 you have posted.

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The 1840 looks more like an industrial milling machine than an enlarger, LOL. Here I am with one at ICP in New York. I'm 6' 2". This one always seemed to be blowing up, I didn't use it much. I also found myself kneeling on the floor with it, which is tiring.

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Yup, that's one of the reasons I didn't opt for an 8x10 color head to replace the 5x7 on my Durst SM-183. I figured by the time I installed it, it would be too tall for my darkroom. I have a 94" or so ceiling height; the Durst column had 1.5" clearance, the DeVere column is 4" or so shorter. Height with the head all the way up on the DeVere is 96", so I only loose a few inches in rise. Also, a much simpler design which uses the same ELH bulbs that my Durst uses, so I have a supply of them already. No fancy electronics or lens shutter, all is manual. Without motorized focusing on the Durst, it's difficult with the head raised. The DeVere is much easier to focus. Haven't put an 8x10 negative on it yet, I don't have my Rodagon 240 mounted on a DeVere board, so I have to wait until my adapter comes in. I'm modifying a DeVere flat panel to accept Durst Lapla boards. I should then be able to use all of my lenses which are already mounted on the Laplas, except for my 80 Apo-R for which I have a recessed DV board. I use it to print 135 since I don't make large prints, but also have a 50 Apo-R if needed.

Ic-R I think the work you did restoring your L1840 is amazing, I just don't have the electrical capabilities, so I opted for the "simpler" design. L

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Originally Posted by Larry Kellogg

Here I am with one at ICP in New York. I'm 6' 2". This one always seemed to be blowing up, I didn't use it much. I also found myself kneeling on the floor with it, which is tiring.
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So Larry, is that a "photo hat" or is the lighting that bright in the ICP darkroom?

LOL. I sent this photo to a friend of mine, an old photog, and he replied: "No hats in the darkroom", so that was the end of that. Still, it would probably make a good dodging tool since you can bend it into shapes. It's not light tight, though.

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Originally Posted by ic-racer

I noticed that in the pictures. Also, seeing that you can fit a chair under the baseboard. I have my baseboard quite low and use a gardener's kneeling pad when printing. This and then also the exact same 3-step ladder to fiddle with the head.

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Remember IC that I don't print large. I can only handle 11x14 trays in my sink without getting "creative". I also own almost every Rodagon lens made, so it gives me a lot of flexibility for head position and print size. 8x10: 300 mm Apo, 240 Rodagon; 5x7: 210, 180, 180 Apo; 4x5: 180 Apo, 150, 135 Rodagons, Medium Format, 135, 105 Rodagons, 80 Apo; 135: 80 Apo, 50 Apo. Makes a big difference and lets me print sitting down!

I've come to believe that 11x14 is the perfect size for a print, in terms of cost and ease of handling. I went through a period of printing 16x20 but that's a bit too large for my needs. I can easily scan 11x14 prints which is a benefit in terms of using them in a book.

Hi All, I have purchased a 5108 that was on ebay, it currently lives in the Detroit area and I live in South Florida. I have an f-250 pickup with a 6.5ft bed, 8ft with the tailgate down. I also have a 12ft enclosed trailer. I would prefer not to haul the trailer that far due to decreased fuel economy, etc, but will if necessary.

So my question is, would it be all right to leave assembled and lay down in the back of my truck trapped, or does it have to be assembled? The person I am being it from moved it a shorter distance when he purchased it but, he is recommending, shipping it assembled.

Any advice will be appreciated.

Now that I have moved a few 10X10 enlargers.

Take tools.

Take it apart.

Move the head all the way up. Lock the wheels. Take the head off of the enlarger. Place this someplace safe. Do the same thing with lenses.... Consider removing the baseboard. Now you can lay the whole enlarger down on it's back.

nope, take that beast apart and pack/cushion everything well, esp the head. make sure you have strong straps/rope to secure the neg and head stages to the lower section when you remove the head, otherwise it can shoot up the column if things are not locked down tight. the force would be enough to clock you badly if your head was in the path, hence the straps.

I think I took mine apart as the base (and lower column) and the top column, the baseboard and the head. could have been more involved but everything fit in the back of a Safari extended van.

If left whole, you'd probably need a couple of strong bucks to move the enlarger.

good luck and khbphotografix.com is good source for parts/ manuals etc..