I need help to make a decision. Tomorrow, I will be buying a 4x5 camera, help me:

Should I get the Chamonix 45F-2, or the Wisner Technical 4x5 Field Camera? There are about the same price, but one is brand new and the other one is over 20 years old:

http://www.chamonixviewcamera.com/_images/045F1.jpg

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/NQEAA...yF/s-l1600.jpg

I just ordered a Chamonix after using an older Nagaoka field camera for a couple of years. The Nagaoka treated me very well, but I opted for new.

If weight is not an issue, two good friends suggested the Linhof Technika VI or V. Amazing build quality but a bit too heavy for me since I hike with my camera regularly - and I’m getting older. If you are going used, the Linhof is worth investigating. Good Technikas can be found for under $1000. My two cents.


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I used to own a Wisner Technical Field 4x5. I bought it brand new when Ron Wisner was still actually shipping the things. I used and enjoyed it for years, and then when I got out of large format I sold it. I found it to be nice and light, and it generally worked well. Lining things up straight and level always required careful attention (probably no more than for other wooden field cameras).

I just came back to large format at the end of 2018. This time, I bought a metal field camera (Wista 45VX). I haven't received it yet, so have no thoughts on how it compares. Interestingly, I was not interested in buying a Wisner Technical Field again. I prefer the extra precision of a metal field camera; I just like detents! I also looked closely at the Intrepid 4x5 Mark III, which is ridiculously cheap. Lots of people seem to be happy with those, but everything I didn't like about the Wisner is worse on the Intrepid. Having said that, if saving every last gram was a priority, I may well have tried an Intrepid.

The Wisner TF is fairly heavy for a folding field camera...is weight a concern for you? Based on many of these cameras I've seen for sale over the years, it seems that the metal doesn't hold up well. If it were my $$, I'd go with the Chamonix.

Based on many of these cameras I've seen for sale over the years, it seems that the metal doesn't hold up well.

I disagree.....metal does hold up well....IMOP! (TOYO 45ar, Horseman 450) a little heavy but rock solid.....

Don

As I recently discovered, the Chamonix customer service is top notch and replacement parts are readily available. I've been very happy with my Chamonix 045n, and it's very pretty too.:)


Kent in SD

I have had the Wisner, and have enjoyed it, for almost 20 years. But unless you really need the technical features, which I rarely do, I would go with the Chamonix for the reasons others have mentioned.

I used a Wisner TF (4x5) for many years and the only real complaint that I had was that it seemed extremely "fiddly", consuming a lot of unnecessary time in setup to insure plumb and parallel standards as a starting point. I have been using a Wista SP now for several years and it has become my favorite because it is quick and easy to setup and the movements are precise and positive. I ultimately sold a Canham DLC which I also favored because I simply didn't use very long or short focal length lenses very frequently (the area where the DLC excels). The Wista SP (VX as well) are not what I would choose for anything shorter than 120 or longer than 240mm... yes, a 90 will work but not well in my experience and I don't care for the "top-hat" or recessed lens boards. Currently I only carry a 135mm Fujinon (old, single-coated) and a 180mm Schneider APO-Symmar.
Joel

I have owned and used the Wisner the OP asked about. I now own the Chamonix 45N-2. No comparison. Chamonix is superior. Build is better, controls are somewhat better, weight is much less. I find the Chamonix easier to use.

Peter, does the 45N-2 have rear standard tilt?

You won’t be disappointed by Chamonix. Build quality is excellent. Lots of little details you’ll appreciate over time. The ground glass cover/protector is a great detail. If you shoot wide, you’ll appreciate the ability to switch between bellows and bag bellows. carbon fiber lens plates. Extension board that allows you to shoot a 600mm tele on 4x5. Asymmetrical rear tilt and easy to use Scheimpflug principle. There’s a lot to love about Chamonix! Buy the accessories!


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F2 has asymmetrical rear tilt. Which means the axis upon which it tilts is not at the center. It’s offset. The ground glass is marked where the axis lies. If you want to use the Scheimpflug principle, you focus at the axis line, then tilt until the whole glass pops into focus. Be aware there are a couple slide locks at the bottom to prevent tilt when you don’t want it. It took me awhile to discover that just feeling around with my fingers sine the slides are stiff when new.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by pepeguitarra

Peter, does the 45N-2 have rear standard tilt?

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Yes.


Kent in SD

Thanks everyone who pitched in. I think I made my decision: I am going to wait. I currently have two Calumet CC400 in excellent shape, but too heavy and bulky. I have one Super Speed Graphic, which was great when I started, but lacks movements and it is hard to shoot landscape with it. Then, I got a 4x5 Intrepid MkII that is very cute. However, it lacks movement in the rear standard and has a single knob to control tilt and raise in the front standard. It is time consuming to focus with it. I understand the MkIII has taken care of those two issues. So, I am debating if spend the $300 for the Mk III, or $1,200 for the Chamonix 45F-2. I will have to sell the Mk II. I have been testing the MkII and is nice, but looking at the Chinese made Chamonix is winning.

Yes I think so. (I don’t use it much.). I’m eight time zones away from it for another week still, so I can’t check for you. I recall that the Chamonix web site has a specification for that movement.

Pepe: you are asking the same question which triggered a long thread on cheaper tools versus expensive tools. I believe the general consensus was to buy the best you can afford, rather than cycling through a number of less expensive options. If it was me, I would keep one of your monorails, sell the other 4x5s, and buy the Chamonix. I don’t think anyone here has looked back and regretted buying the better camera (assuming they could afford it).

This has been an enlightening thread even though I've only lurked - others asked all my questions for me! I was debating between the Chamonix N and F models but have now almost committed to the 45Hs-1. Also helpful in the decision making process was this article:
https://www.largeformatphotography.info/mono-field.html

I notice Chamonix doesn't take credit cards and that there is a 3% surcharge if paid via PayPal. I hate surcharges. :mad:

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Originally Posted by Lelo

This has been an enlightening thread even though I've only lurked - others asked all my questions for me! I was debating between the Chamonix N and F models but have now almost committed to the 45Hs-1. Also helpful in the decision making process was this article:
https://www.largeformatphotography.info/mono-field.html

I notice Chamonix doesn't take credit cards and that there is a 3% surcharge if paid via PayPal. I hate surcharges. :mad:

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Lelo, couple things to consider with choosing your Chamonix. But first, the 3% add-on fee... That happens to be exactly the transaction fee PayPal charges for the transaction. Most businesses roll that into the price and the customer never knows the difference. Chamonix is just being honest about passing the cost to you.

Think about the type of shooting you do as that will affect the best Chamonix for you. First, do you want to have the option use the Scheimpflug principle to create a deep depth of field without stopping down your aperture in lower light conditions? Then your two options are the F-2 and H-1. Do you expect to EVER use a heavy lens like a Schneider 90mm Super Angulon XL or any of the telefoto lenses? If so, Chamonix warns the focus mechanism on both H models will drift under the weight if the camera isn’t level, so you’re better of with F-2 or N-2 for heavy lenses. If you absolutely must close the camera with a wide lens installed instead of taking a few seconds to install one, the the H models are for you. If you want the ability to switch rear standards (at extra cost) to other film sizes, and are willing to cut your own sheet film in the dark from 8x10 then your only choice is H-1. And as stated previously, all Chamonix’s accessories are well designed and very useful. Hope that helps.




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Thank you everyone. This last explanation made it possible. I just ordered the 45F-2. Thank you.

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Originally Posted by pepeguitarra

Thank you everyone. This last explanation made it possible. I just ordered the 45F-2. Thank you.

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Glad to help! You’re going to enjoy it.


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A note of clarification though. My 045n does the Scheimpflug too, with both front and rear standards.


Kent in SD

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pepeguitarra

Thank you everyone. This last explanation made it possible. I just ordered the 45F-2. Thank you.

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Probably a good choice. I never like the Wisners, which is thy I own Deardorffs. However, the V5 is both larger and more expensive an the F2

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Originally Posted by Two23

A note of clarification though. My 045n does the Scheimpflug too, with both front and rear standards.


Kent in SD

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I don’t have an N, but with F-2’s asymmetrical rear tilt and markings on ground glass, it’s fast and easy. Compose, focus on the dotted line, tilt until everything snaps into focus, lock it down, shoot.


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I know this is an old thread, but I find myself asking the same question! A friend has a Wisner, so I was leaning. that way. Then I read all of the bad press on shoddy business practices on these forums, and on Photo.net, and I started looking again. I have owned a Zone VI (American made) 4x5, and currently own an Intrepid Mk4. That is what opened my mind up to Chamonix. I have been looking for the ease of use with the Intrepid, along with the stability, and flexible movements of the Wisner. So, I believe my hunt is on for a Chamonix F2. As I understand it, the asymmetrical back allows me to do what the Wisner TF back would do?

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Originally Posted by Monty Craig

I know this is an old thread, ........So, I believe my hunt is on for a Chamonix F2. As I understand it, the asymmetrical back allows me to do what the Wisner TF back would do?

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Do you know what the "asymetrical back" is and what it allows? Why is it better than the alternative. You don't want my opinion because I don't buy Chinese cameras. I have 4x5 Deardorff Special and Sinar F2's, so that's what I'm going to recommend, or another Zone VI. L

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Monty Craig

I know this is an old thread, but I find myself asking the same question! A friend has a Wisner, so I was leaning. that way. Then I read all of the bad press on shoddy business practices on these forums, and on Photo.net, and I started looking again. I have owned a Zone VI (American made) 4x5, and currently own an Intrepid Mk4. That is what opened my mind up to Chamonix. I have been looking for the ease of use with the Intrepid, along with the stability, and flexible movements of the Wisner. So, I believe my hunt is on for a Chamonix F2. As I understand it, the asymmetrical back allows me to do what the Wisner TF back would do?

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The asymmetrical back allows an easy peasy application of the Scheimpflug principle. Focus at the tilt axis, which is likely near/at the horizon. Next tilt until everything between the tilt axis and the foreground snap into focus. Done.

The 45N-2 does allow rear tilt. The best of the Metal vista cameras though is the 45 SP. I used one for 5 years in Grad school. My MFA was shooting in forest fires and it was great except no one make fire proof bellows...