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16x20 brazilian build
A while ago I posted some images of my gator foam film holder trial, it went well and now I'm in the middle of the camera build.
I'm following JB Harlin's bellows instructions and here is an image of where I am right now:
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3946/...30b439bc_c.jpg
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Re: 16x20 brazilian build
I also used Harlin's instructions to make a bellows for the 14x17. Will you attach the support strips now? Keep posting pics, please!
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Re: 16x20 brazilian build
Guilherme,
What kind of film are you planning to use with the camera? Maybe X-ray?
All what you have for this camera until now are the bellows, or have you built other parts as well?
(Isso é uma coisa de louco, viu, queria ver essa câmera depois de pronta!)
For brazillian-portuguese illiterates on the corner I had just left him know how great seems the hole project,
:D
Sds,
Renato
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Re: 16x20 brazilian build
JB has great info on his site and is a great guy and Susan is wonderful as well.
I know the question will get asked so here goes... where did you get the bellows material? What is it. It looks nice.
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Re: 16x20 brazilian build
Andrew, you are correct.
Renato, yes, I have the rear frame, will be using the front frame of a Toyo camera. The bed has been cut, but I won't assemble it until I know how thick the bellows will be.
Jim, this is the cheapest stuff to make backpacks and similar bags. Seems like nylon with one side of rubber. Maybe for a smaller bellows it wouldn't be a good idea, too thick and too rigid.
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Re: 16x20 brazilian build
Do you know the name of the material? I may restore a couple of cameras and make some new bellows. I know it has come up in the past, bellows materials that is but has anyone recently found the source for proper bellows material?
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Re: 16x20 brazilian build
Jim, they call it rubberized nylon here at the store. The store carries rolls of plastic, pieces of EVA, nylon ropes, plastic hardware to make sports bags, that kind of stuff.
The rubber side has a texture and the nylon side has a pattern, they have different patterns with small variation of price.
Here is another project done with the same material from the same store, a colodion bike by Roger Sassaki:
http://www.imagineiro.com.br/fotogra...-colodio-bike/
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Re: 16x20 brazilian build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
coisasdavida
A while ago I posted some images of my gator foam film holder trial, it went well and now I'm in the middle of the camera build.
I'm following JB Harlin's bellows instructions and here is an image of where I am right now:
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3946/...30b439bc_c.jpg
Wow Guilherme! Now this is a project. Please keep posting your progress.
Let me add/edit this:
I had just shut off a wood shop and I still have a lot of tools and a CNC router that would be perfect to precision mill wood for toys like this. I just don't have the space anymore. I'm in Rio. if someone happen to knows a photographer/woodbutcher that wants to share the shop,let me know.
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Ricardo, too bad Rio and São Paulo are not closer.
Serge, thanks!
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My local fabric store stocks similar stuff. Nylon with one side rubberized. Bought a few metres of it as I'm planning on replacing the bellows for my 14x17.
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Re: 16x20 brazilian build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Andrew O'Neill
My local fabric store stocks similar stuff. Nylon with one side rubberized. Bought a few metres of it as I'm planning on replacing the bellows for my 14x17.
Andrew, thanks I'll check it out.
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Re: 16x20 brazilian build
Have you already glued the inner fabric together at the joint or is this just taped in place to take the photo? If you have already glued the inner fabric together, I suspect that you will have a very difficult time gluing the outside fabric in place. This looks exactly like my 8 x 20 bellows in mid-construction.
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Re: 16x20 brazilian build
I'm using 3M spray no. 77, having no problems and this is my second bellows with this material.
The trial I did a few years back I did use the black plastic from inside photo paper envelopes and blackout curtain, even then no.77 gave a very strong bond if used per instructions to obtain a permanent bond instead of easy to peel apart bond.
I wrote the above before, now re-reading your post, I see I didn't read it correctly, that was the outer fabric on the form inside out, I glued the ribs and then the inner fabric, then turned the bellows inside out again and folded it. Here it is so far:
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7472/...bf67729b_c.jpg
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Re: 16x20 brazilian build
I made a quick video during the folding stage:
https://vimeo.com/111575588
And more pictures can be found on my blog http://refotografia.wordpress.com/
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Re: 16x20 brazilian build
I use the same glue... I take it you glued in a liner as well?
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Re: 16x20 brazilian build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Andrew O'Neill
I use the same glue... I take it you glued in a liner as well?
Yes, I got some cotton textile for men's shirts. Very thin, sort of matte, looks ok.
I used a 250gsm paper for the ribs, I feel it was too thin. I never made a bellows so big, it handles very maleable.
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Bom trabalho camarada !!! Quero ver a camera pronta !
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Wow, nice work, Guilherme!
I hope the rest of the build goes smoothly, and you are rewarded with a sweet 16x20 camera.
That would be my preferred size as well, if I were ever to make the jump to ULF.
Do you have a lens, or lenses, already?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ari
Wow, nice work, Guilherme!
I hope the rest of the build goes smoothly, and you are rewarded with a sweet 16x20 camera.
That would be my preferred size as well, if I were ever to make the jump to ULF.
Do you have a lens, or lenses, already?
Ari, thanks!
I have a few lenses that I could use depending on the format I'll be shooting: a 19 3/4" f/10 Ektanon, a 360mm f/5.6 Symmar, a 183mm f/18 Protar. I intend to have a 8x20" back as well as a 12x16"/14x17" back, besides the 16x20" one. I have some 8x20" FP4, lith film in both 16x20" and 12x16" and x-ray in 12x16". If I ever get done with this load of film I can go to x-ray in 14x17". Until I get to actual shooting I won't be able to tell if I have what I need.
And then there is the money issue. So far I have not spent much in the camera. The wood was part recycled from a Maple crib I built for my first son in 2002 and part bought recently as cut to size plywood that was cheap. Aluminum flat and L bars were cheap too. I had to get a router and that was kind of unexpected. I spent some money in drill bits and glue. Hardware except for 2 screws I was able to find in my shop seaching the jars and drawers. Paper and outside of bellows were recycled, liner I had to buy. I still have to buy black paint for the backs and gatorfoam for the holders, I'll focus on this and make it work with whatever I have for now.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jim Fitzgerald
Awesome job!
Thanks, Jim!
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Here is how it looks this morning. I finished routing the aluminum with my drill press and it worked fine.
Some black paint inside the rear frame and I guess I can glue the bellows.
Still haven't figured out a simple latch idea.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7492/...437978b1_c.jpg
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Re: 16x20 brazilian build
Can you give more info on how you used the drill press for milling/routing? Thanks!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lachlan 717
Can you give more info on how you used the drill press for milling/routing? Thanks!
I bought a mini mill for my last camera build. It makes all the difference in the world and was a great investment.
You can rout with it as well.
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Re: 16x20 brazilian build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lachlan 717
Can you give more info on how you used the drill press for milling/routing? Thanks!
Lachlan,
I used a milling bit on the drill press. Made a small jig to guide the bar in a straight line under the bit. Lowered the bit and locked in place. Put my body against the piece pushing it forward. Used lots of milling oil solution and patience, it takes time.
I made a small post on my blog with a video. Maybe it can help: http://refotografia.wordpress.com/20...2%80%a2-fresa/
This guy here was my inspiration, he used his drill press the same way: https://www.flickr.com/groups/nzlf/d...7625571891566/
You are welcome!
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Here is my second version of drill press to milling machine jig:
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7548/...dfaf068c_c.jpg
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Re: 16x20 brazilian build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
coisasdavida
Thanks for the information.
Did you have any problems with the chatter causing the chuck to drop out, or did the jig help to hold it in place?
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Re: 16x20 brazilian build
Awesome job! hope to see the completed camera soon.
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Re: 16x20 brazilian build
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lachlan 717
Did you have any problems with the chatter causing the chuck to drop out, or did the jig help to hold it in place?
One time, when I was making a lensboard for a Speed Graphic.
I was cutting some maple (3/8" thick), making it thinner on the edges to fit the camera.
My solution was to make it in steps or passes. Taking less material in each pass. By doing that, I didn't have the problem with wood anymore.
This last week, with aluminum, not a single problem.
I have to say that I make the chuck much tighter than I would to drill a hole.
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Re: 16x20 brazilian build
You can also use downcut router bits in wood and aluminum. They won't try to pull the bit out of the chuck. See here for a good explanation: http://blog.cnccookbook.com/2012/04/...w-to-use-them/
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
el french
Wow, lots of learning in this link, thanks!!!!!!
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Re: 16x20 brazilian build
Fantastic job! Professional looking camera build.Can't wait to see pictures...
Don
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Re: 16x20 brazilian build
I have been working on a few things before glueing the bellows to the rear frame. I wanted to get all the dust making things out of the way before that.
I routed the three backs (8x20", 12x16" and 16x20") and I had the rear frame present in the shop to try and fit to it both horizontal and vertical position. They look like this:
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7485/...e8ca02fc_c.jpg
They are not finished yet, because I can never know what is going to happen when I make the film holders, I may have to change a few things here.
For holders I'll be making some like this one: http://www.largeformatphotography.in...=1#post1122897
I was able to modify a tripod to add a platform for this camera, now it sits here waiting.
Next on the list is to glue the bellows, add some sort of latch to keep camera closed, install a couple bubble levels and a carrying handle.
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Re: 16x20 brazilian build
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I have been trying to convince myself that I haven't completely ruined the bellows by using a paper too thin.
During my first dry test it was very hard to manage the bellows. It has around 55 inches when extended, a very strong taper as you can see and is not very hard to bend, open and close.
It kept trying to fall all over. I used some paper clips and some scrap wire to hold it towards the front of camera.
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7463/...f009a8e2_c.jpg
That seemed to work so far for the 500mm focused at infinity. But my guess is that I will have trouble trying longer draws, I haven't so far.
I'm thinking of some folding wire supports on the base and inside the rear frame and adding lots of strips/loops to the bellows to hold it towards the front as much as I can.
Is that the right track towards good bellows management?
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Can you glue another layer inside the bellows?
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Re: 16x20 brazilian build
Wow, fantastic project.
Other solutions to the bellows droop. An intermediate frame:
Attachment 127437
Lift the bellows up from below:
Attachment 127439
Suspend the bellows:
Attachment 127438
http://darrensgreatbigcamera.com/wp-...010/07/004.jpg
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Re: 16x20 brazilian build
Winterclock, I suppose I could. All glued now to the camera, but if that's what has to be done in the end, easier than making a new one.
Ic-racer, thanks, very clear!
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Re: 16x20 brazilian build
Here a few pictures of recent film holder making.
This is my light trap made of felt:
Attachment 176762
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I've been making a bunch of holders for all 3 different formats, a lot of gator foam being cut:
Attachment 176763
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Here are 3 30x40cm holders waiting for testing:
Attachment 176764
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Ha! The smallest ones!
Attachment 176765
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Curious to know how these work. Please let us know.
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I made one a few years back when this idea of camera started. It worked ok. Now I'm finishing the whole project (3 backs and 3 holders for each back - 8x20", 12x16" and 16x20")
They are not meant to last very long, but so is my film stash, so I guess I'm fine. It took me only a few hours to make all these holders, so the time and money investment was low, I guess I could repeat it if ever needed.
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Thanks, Randy!
There a few more pictures in my blog here: https://refotografia.wordpress.com/2...meiras-saidas/
Text in portuguese, I apologize.