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2 Attachment(s)
Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street
Hello To all.
General Inquiry as follows:
I checked the forum through, only once. I would like to inquire where to purchase exposed sheet film for 5x7 and 5x4?
I need it for 4 reasons. (Encouraging and discouraging inputs /opinion no problem, are welcome)
1) For people who might harass me on public space, to indicate that I am not a terrorist and I simply cannot run and duck with LF equipment. ( I am Asian/Chinese/Filipino 5'4" scrawny and male)
2) To illuminate people if need be, that I am using and jumping into LF, 54 and 57 and I simply will only take 4 or less than 6 sheets of whichever film I take, on site hence the setup and slow process of LF is not what people think, machine gunning with a LF camera is not possible.
3) To provide contrast to dimwits who will tell me to buy a digital MF or similar, i.e. I am learning for personal knowledge and experience how sheet film behaves and that technology is a matter of some physics, optics and chemistry.
4) to practice loading 54 and 57 (I can always try and purchase the cheapest B&W at BnH. ( I live in Jersey City, N.J.)
If not then I have no choice but to purchase a set of 10 for 57 and 54 sheet film, and waste at least two sheets.
If anyone has an idea, I am willing to pay for postage. (Jumping to 54 and 57, currently doing 69 on horseman convertible)
Thank you for any response.
Max.
P.S.
Also I would like to add that, since I read some of the threads from 2004 regarding people harassing and assuming LF and photography in general as suspicious,
I wonder if it helps if you look puny and everyone considers you to be a minor or no threat at all, since I made the mistake of using a 35mm on tripod and took pictures of the Holland Tunnel in 2016 and someone called the PATH police. In 5 minutes two police officers , one in a cruiser and other in a patrol car came up to me.
Gave my id checked the routine went through my stuff and was told to stay near the lighted areas or gas station. I was out at around 8 in the evening almost fall.
It was my first time, I thought I was about to be arm-bent face on the pavement then thrown at the back of a cruiser.
I've never had any sort of interaction with any law enforcement unit in this manner until August 28, 2016 to be exact, around 8:40 - 9:30 PM.
I had just returned to shooting film and presently I have mustered enough guts to go 6x9 then to 57 and 54.
The pictures are not good I was doing bulb with a pentax honeywell, arista 100 b&w
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Attachment 192882
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Re: exposed film
Buy a box and waste a sheet practicing loading it. Once you factor in postage it will be the cheapest way.
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Re: exposed film
Perhaps buy some way-outdated film for cheap on eBay, or on this forum or Photrio?
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Re: exposed film
when you start loading n shooting, you will make plenty of mistakes. use those mistakes for practice.
one sheet is not such a big sacrifice to practice loading.
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Re: exposed film
In my limited experience the police know the laws pertaining to photography much better than the average citizen. I have had several pleasant chats with officers from various jurisdictions—a couple of them had suggestions for new places to photograph that I hadn't thought of. I have never been directly harassed by anyone, but have noticed lately that in rural areas people tend to be more suspicious than they used to be. (This could devolve into a political discussion which I won't go into). Maybe go out with a friend for moral support?
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Re: exposed film
I have no idea what you are carrying on about, Max. Just take your camera and shoot some film. Most of that stuff you seem concerned about rarely happens.
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Re: exposed film
P.S. running and ducking when/if confronted by anyone is the wrong idea unless there is a real threat of potential violence. Much better to explain, make a new friend and, if required, stand up for your rights. Photography is not a crime. Irrational neurotic “fear” is not grounds for suspicion.
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Re: exposed film
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Richard Wasserman
[...] have noticed lately that in rural areas people tend to be more suspicious than they used to be.
I'm a former rural guy. Lived on 5,500 acres of beautiful rolling land 600' up overlooking the Mississippi River. My driveway was 1.9 miles long. Once a guy pulled up to the side of the drive and asked gruffly, "You ain't surveying are ya?" I sure don't blame his suspicion. I just said, "Just taking record pictures of my land. As far as you can see is mine. Stop by the house at the end of the road for a beer later if you like." Good folks here. I love Minnesota. Our Chief Sheriff would slowly drive around the property just to see the wildlife. Gosh, those were good days.
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Re: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street
You don't need to practice with both 4x5 and 5x7--the holders work exactly the same way. It sounds like you've already shot some sheet film. Wasn't that successful? If so, you don't need practice. If not, you have your practice sheet already. As for the train tunnel, I've been taking train photos for the past 20 years. It's well known in the railfan circles that the PATH police are absolutely nuts. They hassle everybody. As long as you're on public property there is nothing they can do to you. Just stay cool, and eventually they'll leave you alone. Don't act sneaky, such as running and hiding. I've not had any real problems with any police in the past 10 years, and I photo at night a lot.
Kent in SD
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Re: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BrianShaw
I have no idea what you are carrying on about, Max. Just take your camera and shoot some film. Most of that stuff you seem concerned about rarely happens.
I know it will burst your bubble that you are doing something edgy, but your concerns are overblown. Just go out and take some pictures.
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Re: exposed film
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BrianShaw
I have no idea what you are carrying on about, Max. Just take your camera and shoot some film. Most of that stuff you seem concerned about rarely happens.
Concur...OP sounds like an overthinker.
If you must, carry a 5x7 pocket portfolio to show off your photos.
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Re: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street
I have photographed almost exclusively at night for more than a decade now, using both a modified Toyo VX23D view camera, as well as a modified Cambo WDS technical camera, and as a result, I have been hassled by homeowners, security guards, and police more times than I can count or remember.
When I first started doing this type of photography, any people who were concerned about what I was doing would usually approach me, at which point I could be friendly and explain it to them. Over the past few years, though, people have started keeping their distance and just call the police instead, so there's zero chance of being friendly and/or explaining anything to them today.
In fact, most of times the police are called on me these days -- which this happens roughly every couple of months, including even earlier this morning while I was photographing around my neighborhood with my camera and my dog between 1:30 and 3:00 am! -- I had no idea I was being observed. (Of course, I always assume as much, hence I'm very careful not to trespass or otherwise call attention to myself.)
As a practical matter, then, I don't think there's much you can do to prevent any encounters and especially not with the police. That said, unless you're trespassing -- or in NYC, at least, in possession of a camera while walking across a bridge or near critical infrastructure, where local ordinances prohibit such things -- you really won't need to explain your actions to anyone, because most (but by no means all) police are familiar with the various laws concerning photography in public places. Your mileage may differ, of course, but it's been my experience (especially when photographing at night in NYC!) that the less time you spend interacting with the police, the better, and the less information you volunteer about yourself and what you're doing, the better.
The police aren't dummies and when it becomes clear that you're knowledgeable about the law generally and specifically the laws regarding photographing in public by politely but firmly pushing back against them, they will usually not to try to intimidate you or bluff you by threatening to cite and/or arrest you for loitering or obstructing traffic or various other minor crimes the specific details of which you're probably not very familiar but potentially sound scary.
In fact, unless they formally detain you, the law in most states doesn't even require you to provide the police with your name or identification! I realize that most people will find themselves feeling intimated when dealing with the police, so pushing back to the fullest extent the law allows will likely make them uncomfortable. But keep in mind the police have been trained to take advantage of your discomfort and you most likely haven't been trained in how to legally resist them, so you're very much at a disadvantage in this situation.
For instance, I was once approached by the NYC police while I was photographing the Hell Gate Bridge from Randall's Island. I was friendly, answered their questions, and showed them my photos on the LCD of my digital camera. One of the two police officers asked me why the photos were tinted dark red and I explained it was because I had modified my camera so it captured only infrared light and the red tint would go away after I converted the photo to B&W. "You mean like a spy camera?" he asked.
Needless to say, that changed everything about the encounter and I ended up being formally detained (but not arrested ... and Yes, there is a difference!) and investigated for the following two hours until I was finally released. Whereas if I had simply kept my mouth shut and answered only the questions I was legally required to do, they likely would have left me alone and I would have been on my way again in just a few minutes. I learned a very valuable lesson that day, to be sure!
To summarize: While it's nice to think you can talk your way out of being harassed, my experience is that if you're going to be harassed, then you're going to be harassed, period. As such, it's my experience that the best approach is to keep your mouth shut as much as the law of your state allows -- always politely but firmly, of course! -- and get the encounter to end as quickly as you possibly can, even if it means giving up on the photo you were taking and walking away from the police, as you are legally allowed to do so long as you're not being detained.
Of course, the best approach for me might not be the best approach for you, but I strongly encourage you to at least educate yourself about the law so you'll know what what your options are when -- not if -- you are hassled the next time.
P.S.: My personal record is having six police cars and, IIRC, 10 police officers respond to a call about me photographing from a canal path that was open to the public, but located near Sky Harbor Airport. I was able to take the following photo before they they made me step away from the camera, then huffed and puffed at me for 20 minutes before releasing me, as they had no alternative but to do because I wasn't doing anything illegal or even improper:
https://i.imgur.com/6VnN69a.jpg
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Re: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street
Just know your neighborhoods. Makes no difference whether it is urban or rural. There are a percentage of bad people everywhere, including a few rogue cops, so just use common sense and avoid unnecessary encounters. Arguing with law enforcement is NOT a smart strategy, whether or not you are in the right, legally. Better to cooperate. Even good cops have bad days and can run low on patience. In some neighborhoods, residents are paranoid about any kind of outsider. Having a view camera versus something small makes no difference. Way out in ranching country, someone might see a big tripod and assume you're a surveyor working for some developer planning to steal their property, which actually happens at times. But I've had city situations where a big view camera became a benign conversation piece to passers-by, whereas an SLR might be interpreted as intrusive spying on their privacy. Causing an obstruction with your gear on a busy road or sidewalk is an understandable offense, at least in terms of basic politeness. Nosing around power plants, critical urban bridges, or certain government facilities that might in fact be potential terrorist targets is yet another situation, and you need to understand responsible concern from law enforcement. Every year there are certain photographic opportunities I pass up due to personal safety concerns; but that's the exception rather than the rule. It's relatively rare occurrence when I get bothered. I could almost count them on one hand after forty years of large format photography.
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Re: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Drew Wiley
Just know your neighborhoods. Makes no difference whether it is urban or rural. There are a percentage of bad people everywhere, including a few rogue cops, so just use common sense and avoid unnecessary encounters. Arguing with law enforcement is NOT a smart strategy, whether you are in the right, legally. Better to cooperate. Even good cops have bad days and can run low on patience.
Of course, it goes without saying the potential always exists for any approach you choose when dealing with the police to take a turn for the worse, just as there are, in fact, times when not wearing a seat belt and being thrown clear of the car in accident will save your life, not cause your death.
But cooperating fully with the police doesn't automatically mean responding to every one of their questions.
IMO, the best approach, as I stated above, is to educate yourself about your options and then respond as you deem appropriate to the particular situation you find yourself in at any given time.
There may indeed be a time when I decide that answering all the questions the police ask me is the best course of action and if so, then that is what I will do ... never say never, eh? :)
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Re: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street
I've got sort of the opposite situation here... I'm 6' tall, big, buzzcut hair, and nobody gives me a hard time. Most likely if I attract attention with a LF or MF camera, it's from someone my parent's age or older who had fond memories of the graflex or rolleiflex back in the day, when they used one at the newspaper, their dad brought one home from the war, etc...
Dress professionally, not like a rich guy wanting to be robbed, but not like a thug either.. Don't dress in all black. You might find a talkative extrovert friend to go along.. They can run interference and socialize and keep an eye on people reducing your distraction.
If you are wanting to shoot at dusk or night, skip the cheap film and use Acros, Tmax, or Delta for better reciprocity. If you want to show people what you do for photography, get a small pocketable blurb book made of your portfolio, point to your name on the cover and say, "That's me".
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Re: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street
Enjoy your freedom now (post 9/11) as lotsa people are shooting their fone or cameras, and is not too strange to others that you are shooting too...
The NYC area was difficult to shoot the next to last decade due to higher security (paranoidia), but has passed long ago...
There still might be restrictions from Port Authority etc about what you can shoot, but you can find that on their websites, but also, print a copy to take with you while shooting, to show the overzealous cop or others it is ok...
Just shoot, don't worry about it, be mindful of the rules and others, but but calm, cool, collected at all times, don't argue with anyone but just leave if asked, and just step up to the plate calmly if questioned, but mostly HAVE FUN!!!
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Re: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street
Having to live in Kearny (in previous life :>) and working in Secaucus, I'll try to, perhaps, address your issue. I can understand your apprehension and to larger degree this is being bred locally. Instead pointing the finger at people or police (any sort of stereotype), I'd encourage you to find places outside the concrete jungle (NJ being the largest /sq mile population)....and eventually ease back into it on your own terms. There is plenty to photograph up and down the E. Coast, w/o having to deal with large cities. Furthermore, the more you understand what can or cannot be photographed (local laws & jurisdictions), the better footing you'll have when the cops arrive. Not sure if this will work for you, but sometimes defection and piece of mind can be a good thing.
Sure, having someone else with you can be a good thing (often a luxury). This forum has several wonderful photographers and one of them lives up in CT and have photographed NYC skyline (night) from Hoboken......so it can be done w/o major encounters. Anyway, enjoy the LF and there is no point being on the edge....or inducing stress into it. Best of luck.
Les
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Re: exposed film
Ok, this one I understand.
noted. And for the admins, thank you for moving the thread.
I was not expecting a lot of response.
Will do for the sheet film, have to dive, my best 10 years is now at 39 years of age.
Have to do this.
:)
Noted: Gebhardt post.
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Re: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street
Understood.
1) I will just purchase one set for 54, and will try out Sp-445 (Mr. Klein has the Sp-8x10+ prepped for prod.)
2) Know and understand the situation. Noted on that giving it away, leading to more issues.
3) The attire is a good key note. I already wear a buzz cut, maybe get a better carry pack since I do mostly military packs (durable) so maybe make it look "proper".
4) Scout and learn areas where there is less foot traffic. But I am aware of federal strucs as a no-go. I understand the apprehension, needless to say I can see both sides of a situation.
5) Yes I have to finally churn out 69's 54's and 57's. I have a T6 EOS earlier cannon but I still use couplers on it. ( I use the mechanical lenses sans the chip ring and rarely use it)
6) I have to say I never thought I would get the opportunity to educate myself with LF, I started with a Bialoski Bear camera takes a 110 and was a pinhole camera then moved to a
Pentax K1000 ( grandfather spent a lot of time in flea markets in S.F.) and when I learned how to use a 2x3 graflex I knew I just had to transition to LF despite the slow burn process.
7) I understand the do not stress bit, I just thought and added the P.S. since it was mostly the used film I was inquiring; and added the PATH bit because of :
I am understanding why the camera lenses have numbers on them (slr) and why the LF is called a technical camera and you slow down and start thinking somewhat
( I am content with 4 54 sheets if I know I did it right or 8 frames of 69s or less) as long as I learn
And whatever it is that becomes a positive obsession in life is an "investment", i.e. results always take time, does not happen overnight. Slow cooked or slow burn whichever might work.
8) Duly noted responses and my gratitude for the useful notes to the ff:
Audii-Duddii
Faberryman
Gebhardt
Goldstein
Invisibleflash
JP
Labrat
Ron
Shaw
Stafford
Two23/Kent
Vogt
Wasserman
Wiley
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Attachment 192905
Max
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Re: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street
I think you will probably find that photographing 4x5 is more likely to bring people in out of curiosity rather than harassment. People see a person with a wooden box on a tripod and they do not think terrorist, they think of their weird uncle. Or perhaps it really has changed in the 12 years since I have not lived in the US? I have to admit I am discouraged to see so much about safety in this and the night thread...
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Re: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street
OP I can totally see where you are coming from.
I'm not Anglo or European either and what I do because
I stick out like a sore thumb where I live ... I actually call the police give them
a head's up, let them know what I am up to in case some wackjob calls the cops
that "some guy who looks different with this weird box is doing something dangerous "
the PO-PO can just say, "dude that guy is just taking pichers." When I photographed a secure
military installation I actually had a MP running interference for me, I gave him photography pointers
and he told all the looky loos that I was with him. Lately I am using something bigger than 8x10 and I am
thinking of having a "body guard" hang out with me so well, you know he can wear all black, wear shades, have
ear pods in, and look good, maybe collect some sacred 7-digits, and keep me safe.
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Re: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street
We've had problems with harassment in Portland near the Federal Building. Federal officers have emerged all hot and bothered from the building and hassled photographers taking photos, once when a photographer was using an 8x10 in a public park just across the street.
Maybe they're unfamiliar with the law? In one case, the federal officials conducted a search through the photographer's equipment. The photographer later received an apology.
It's all rather ridiculous. If I were going to surreptitiously photograph a building having bad purpose, I sure wouldn't call attention to myself by using an 8x10. :D Nor would there be a need to use 8x10.
So, we've had similar problems. But from the sound of it in this thread, such overreactions are pretty rare.
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Re: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street
Quote:
Originally Posted by
neil poulsen
Maybe they're unfamiliar with the law? In one case, the federal officials conducted a search through the photographer's equipment. The photographer later received an apology.
I have had my camera bag searched without a warrant as well.
I was photographing about 50' into an alley -- and so you know, in Phoenix, alleys are considered open to the public unless posted otherwise -- when a police car pulled up at the end of it, two officers got out and started looking at my car parked in the entrance of a large parking lot across the street, such that the last few inches of its bumper hung over the sidewalk.
I yelled to them that it was my car and they yelled back for me to come to them, so I did, leaving my camera on the tripod and my camera bag hanging hanging from a hook on the center column.
Except when I start to cross the street, one of them warns me that I'm about to jaywalk and he will cite me if I do so. He then tells me I need to walk down the sidewalk to the corner, cross the street in the marked crosswalk, then walk back up the sidewalk to speak to them.
"Really?" I asked him and he nodded his head up and down and pointed to the corner.
So I started down the sidewalk, as directed, and the other officer crossed the street directly, walked down the alley, and retrieved my camera / tripod / camera bag, then returned to the police car, where he started to search it.
I yelled "Hey, you don't have a warrant" as I was approaching (because I had to walk a much longer distance than he did, I still hadn't reached them and their car) and he responded with "I don't need one, because you abandoned your camera in the alley."
Then proceeded to start searching my bag, looking for serial numbers on everything in it, which he was calling-in over his radio to dispatch so they could search their database to determine whether any of it was stolen.
At which point, I called the police on my cellphone and asked for a supervisor to be dispatched to the scene because the cops were harassing me and performing an illegal search.
The harassment continued for another 45 minutes, including threatening to have my car towed because it was illegally parked. It wasn't, but I humored them and moved it into the parking lot, which they told me was posted private property and they would have car towed if I parked it there. I pointed out to them there were no signs posted to that effect, which meant I was free to park there, at which point they pointed a No Trespassing sign on a fence running along the far side of the parking lot and claimed it applied to the parking lot in front of it, as well as the area behind it, which was complete BS and I told them so.
Unfortunately, it was 2:00 am and no parking was permitted on the street at that hour, so I had to drive three blocks away to park my car, then walk back to retrieve my camera gear, because they were still holding it pending the all-clear from dispatch on the serial numbers.
No supervisor ever arrived, although two other police cars did and the six officers were talking among themselves for a few minutes -- I was made to stand far enough away that I couldn't hear what was said -- and the other two cars left.
After waiting another 20 minutes, dispatch informed the officers that none of my gear had been reported stolen, so they returned it to me and told me to leave the area. I told them I didn't need to leave the area just because they told me to do so and I intended to continue photographing, as I was legally allowed to do.
The harassment then continued, as they followed me -- both while I was on foot and also when I drove to another area to photograph -- and made it impossible for me to photograph because they had their high-beams on and were shining the A-pillar lights on the scenes I tried to photograph, ruining in advance any photo I tried to take.
After another 20 minutes of this, I gave up and drove home.
Previous to this incident, the police I encountered during my outings were always friendly -- they would often wave to me as they drove past -- but for the next 18 months, I was hassled by every cop who spotted me, so clearly these two cops had gotten the word out about me having committed "Contempt of Cop" by pushing back against them and I was considered fair game, to the point I gave up photographing in that area and started photographing elsewhere for the next year, at which point things returned to the way they had been previously.
I considered filing a complaint against them, but was warned against doing that because I had no evidence to support the majority of my claims (the full extent of their harassment went well beyond what I detailed above, btw) -- presumably, the only evidence would be police call logs showing they had stopped to investigate me and called in the serial numbers of my gear to dispatch -- so it would not be taken seriously and I would only be painting a target on my back that would remain visible for a long time. Needless to say, I never received any apology.
So perhaps my earlier advice about minimizing one's interaction with the police now has some context to support my conclusion?
Contrast that with the police officer in Superior, AZ, a small, economically moribund mining town an hour's drive east of Phoenix (as an aside, it was the town in which a large part of Oliver Stone's 1987 movie, U-Turn, was filmed due to its unique, frozen-in-time character) who stopped me late one night, warned me to avoid a certain area because it had become a gang hungout, and gave me his personal cellphone number to call in case I needed help, because the town's dispatch only worked for two shifts, so any 911 calls during the third shift were routed through Globe, AZ, a much larger neighboring town, and as such, it sometimes would take a few minutes for the call info to be relayed to him.
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Re: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street
It’s important to know two things: when your right and what your rights are.
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Re: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street
An associate is a professional documentary photographer; when he is going to photograph in a new (usually small) town he goes to the police station to introduce himself. It helps a lot if one is as friendly and engaging as he is. (Oh, he is conspicuous, always works from a tripod.)
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Re: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street
@AAudii-Dudii
When it happened to me, the older officer scanned my id and the younger one (who looked like Dolph Lundgren) asked me to open up my rucksack, to which I did and laid out all the contents, a book some duct tape some minor parts, film rolls. And the one asked me to see the images and I said I can give you the film, its not digital. And the older officer just explained that due to the high security problems (2017), I should shoot near gas stations or the skyline in Hoboken (to which I did) and did take shots by Observer highway which was a 10 minute walk from Holland Tunnel.
I was told not to use the word "target" I said ok the "places". Its funny because I went west of the PATH police station but facing a gas station and no one ever complained and I was there for over 15 minutes.
This is why I asked and ask myself because LF cannot be hurried and its not like street photography where you can be "slick".
I guess I just have to dress apt for the thing and have the small booklet ready (still in process of coming up with it).
Yes the confiscation bit, I would carry my receipt if need be but I will see, since I can always find flat supports to test the Sakai field camera as opposed to using a tripod.
I am thinking of finding a way to get a table top tripod or something so I can "shrink" the appearance of LF if that makes sense and just learn to set my ev's right and exposure then I make the shot.
Also if I stay away from foot traffic, I seldom get anyone which is better but I am avoiding residential areas because everyone can just call on you regardless of whether its public or my equipment is harmless.
@BrianShaw
Accurate to the point that since I am transitioning to architecture after I graduate the Mech Tech at NYCCT, at least it will not be that vague but will not leverage on that.
The Holland Tunnel was definitely a no go because I was churning out watercolor sketches in 2011 and I was near 50th-56th along 10th ave where they have very interesting old buildings housing the grid or sub grids for NYC and I was finishing my small 11 x17 sketch and this guy approaches me greets me and asks me, to which I said sketching. He said its prohibited and so I stopped and left.
@Jac@stafford.net
Yes its a possibility to inquire , but then I would have to present my school id and that I am taking up architecture in the fall , and I could explain and get shot by moronic responses like why this hobby and yada yada yada, to which hmm gets political and funny because those who use social media for some reason abuse the "I will record you and put you on youtube" constantly and the police are somewhat taken aback by that but when they see LF or film at least their spider senses just go off :)
I will see and get my buzz cut ready and just be straight and if it happens I try to be calm...
my two cents is this in general, people are becoming attached to technology that they cannot understand how the present evolved from the past, although if you look at all the images and fotos from the 1880's or perhaps before the proliferation of the digital slr, the images are just different.
So many digital photographers and yet I wonder why every time I look at an 810 54 57 image, its just not the same. So in any case I can always find ways to take images since I did do 3 am to 7 am on the Brooklyn bridge and no one was around (its touristy I guess) and just understand the situation. (2017)
I always get asked why two things in general:
1) Why do film when there is digital ? hmmmm :)
2) Why do you have to shoot at dawn at dusk or at night? I really don't know how to explain this.. but I do.. I just cannot stand the lemming mind.
and sometimes the third is what will you do with those pictures ? hahahah. How do I explain my desire to learn optics, film and large format to a police officer who was born in the early 2000's and beyond that becomes a very dialectical problem for me (I was born in 1980).. hence some have had the audacity to say why not music, cooking painting or friends ( I really don't want parasites) and I have done all that cook, paint and play the guitar, but the process of taking an image encompasses time especially my interest is in space and seldom try to include people in my shots.
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Re: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street
You shouldn’t have to explain yourself. Photography is not a crime. Unfortunately you seem to have fallen victim to some fools and thugs. Wearing a badge and carrying a gun doesn’t make one intelligent, unfortunately. Your civil and American rights have been violated. The problem is that no matter how right you are, they carry the big stick and will punish you... even when they are enforcing their will and whim rather than the law. Not all are like that, but they seem to exist.
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Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street
I’m from the a pretty rural area in the Great Plains, the other day I was shooting by my car out along a dirt road with no houses for a ways. An old lady pulled up as I was packing everything back into my car. She stared at me for a few seconds after I said hello and asked “what are you doing out here?”
I replied that I’m an art student and I was doing some photography.
“You’re taking pictures?”
“Yes ma’am”
“Alright, I won’t shoot you then” *drives off*
I love my hometown.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Re: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street
Life is strange. I have been bothered by people and police several times when photographing around the United States. I have been to China twice and have taken hundreds of pictures from the largest cities to some remote rural areas. I was never bothered by anyone.
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Re: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street
Yup, always in my vehicle with safety cone.
My truck is basic white and often fools workers who start to look busy as I slowly drive by.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Greg Davis
I photograph from the side of the road. After almost causing a pileup of rubber neckers I now put on a road crew safety vest and hard hat. People ignore me now.
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Re: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street
Wait, some of you are going into back alleys in Phoenix after midnight to "photograph?" And others are trying to photograph known targets for terrorists like tunnels, alone? Others go to film the Antifa thugs and May Day riots? You go looking for trouble, you're going to find it.
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Re: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street
Likewise here, whenever i'm in an area that may attract strange looks, i wear a Hi-Viz jacket.
If you go out dressed in black clothes at night, then you will look suspicious.
Make yourself obvious and no-one will come near you!
Mike
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Re: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street
I am always looking to be alone in the middle of nowhere. Difficult.
I have been stalked in many cities, sometimes from both ends of an alley. I have seen at least 5 dead in a city before the Bus arrives. One guy died in a flash where I missed the punch, so I could not testify. The punch didn't kill him, his head hitting the sidewalk did.
The quick and the dead, is a wise phrase.
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Re: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street
Or you can use Simon Norfolk's camouflage when he photographed in Afghanistan in the early 2000s. He wore Hawaiian shirts and shorts—he wanted everyone to see him and think he was a bit of a harmless lunatic. It worked....
http://www.simonnorfolk.com/afghanis...onotopia#essay
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Re: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street
Quote:
Originally Posted by
goamules
Wait, some of you are going into back alleys in Phoenix after midnight to "photograph?" And others are trying to photograph known targets for terrorists like tunnels, alone? Others go to film the Antifa thugs and May Day riots? You go looking for trouble, you're going to find it.
For the record, I have never knowingly gone looking for trouble, only for scenes to photograph.
I have also been hassled at least as often in the neighborhood where I live (which I believe is as far as possible from being sketchy) as I have in the truly sketchy parts of downtown Phoenix.
Unfortunately, in today's often hysterical climate, the only way to absolutely avoid being harassed is to stay home and that's not an option for me, because that's not where the photos I want to take -- no, make that the photos I'm compelled to take -- can be found. <shrugs shoulders>
As always, YMMV!
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Re: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street
At a Chicago airport my friend and I were approached by a cop who asked in a friendly way, "Can I help you?" and he let us pass through a gate with the security fellow who turned off his scanning wand. I asked my friend, "What just happened?" and he said, "Look at yourself. You dress like a sloppy off-duty cop!" (True - black leather jacket, black pants, utility boots, blue shirt.) and he added, "And I'm the spitting image of the Cook County prosecutor. You work for me." He did, and I did!.
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Re: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street
Sure, I too, had a camera set to photo GG Bridge (from Ft Baker) @night and couple cop cars came about. By the time I finished....at least 1/2 dozen drove by....some of those were the same vehicles. I believe they had been advised not to mess with folks....so I was left alone.
The only time I ever came close to being "harassed" (if I could even call that) was when I was in Europe. Saw this cool and active stork nest and pulled over. The tripod was within public space. Appx 20 min later this woman comes over to me and claimed as if I was taking an image of her house. I corrected her and instead of throwing legal jiberrish at her, I invited her to look through the viewfinder (yes, digital). She got to observe a landing parent-stork....as they were feeding 3 beaks :>). Eventually, I got the shot that I was after....and all ended w/o drama.
Les
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Re: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street
Ha! High Vis jackets? Yellow hardhats? Clipboards? White panel trucks? That's what parcel thieves do when they follow Fedex and UPS trucks around the neighborhood. That's how burglar scouts dress up. So that's who smart cops tail and angry homeowners get into even bigger trucks to tailgate.
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Re: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street
I don’t know what it is about nuclear power plants and oil refineries that tickle me so much as an LF shooter. The stacks? The steam? I know if I ever set up my tripod within minutes I would be facing down SWAT. A few years ago near the Nevada/California border I came across a solar farm. I didn’t know what it was at the time. There were beacons with spot lights on top spread across square miles of desert with sparkling reflections on the ground. I had never seen anything like it so I pull off the highway got as close as I could, parked and walked to a field near the fence and started shooting with a 90mm 135 format with a tripod. On my way out of the empty field 10 minutes later 6 SUVs with tinted windows drove passed me entering the field I just left. It was a Duh moment. I had expect them to cut me off but they kept going and stopped.
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Re: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BrianShaw
It’s important to know two things: when your right and what your rights are.
no, not necessarily true. it's not easy for someone who isn't a minority to understand how they are surveilled and harassed by the police and " very good people".
unfortunately the last time I was in public on a sidewalk photographing a site I forgot my own protocol and didn't call the police. like clockwork some do-gooder called the police on me making 6 minute long mid day ( 330-4pm ) exposures with a 120 year old box camera ... 2 cruisers pulled up and questioned me for IDK 20 minutes. they ran my plates, and my license. thankfully I had my instagram feed to show them, and nothing happened. my previous experience with my local police not as "happy" ....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
invisibleflash
If you must, carry a 5x7 pocket portfolio to show off your photos.
EXACTLY.
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Re: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street
Street is done and gone
No way am I ever doing it again
I was going to photogragh a Historical Village very close to me, owned and run by a local JR College
BUT they have combined Hunting and Fishing Days, that is the official name, with the very calm Historical Village Spring event
WAY More hunters show up
I will duck and cover and photogragh when that weekend is done
There was 500 people behind me on campus all very young
For this Civil War Cannon
Shot with historical camera posted today
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...b612c6ca_b.jpgCivil War Cannon firing by TIN CAN COLLEGE, on Flickr
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Re: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street
A particular refinery not far from here looks especially photogenic, but you can't approach it at all. They aren't worried about industrial spies, but about sheer legal liability due to an accidental release or fire incident, which does sometimes happen.
I've gotten up on a hill behind it with a long telephoto, but it's not the perspective I want. And besides, refineries put out a lot or haze and smoke obscuring the details from far away.
Solar farms out in the desert can be quite contentious. Out by the CA/NV border there's a big one right atop endangered desert tortoise habitat which has brought angry protestors, along with complaints of spoiling the view from the ridges of a nearby Wilderness Area. I hate what solar farms do to views too, but am not a Monkey Wrench Gang type. And a least they're hypothetically removable, unlike more hydro dams, which are starved of water in the Southwest now anyway.
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Re: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street
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Re: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street
To avoid harassment in Los Angeles, it is to be the fastest possible when I decide to take a picture. Meaning no tripod, this is where the graflex super D shines. You can really act fast.
No matter how fast cops came twice. It went well because they laughed at that camera and I gave it to them to look it through the viewfinder. That thing breaks the barrier !
But you never know, the third time might no be the same.
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Re: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GuillaumeZuili
To avoid harassment in Los Angeles, it is to be the fastest possible when I decide to take a picture. Meaning no tripod, this is where the graflex super D shines. You can really act fast.
No matter how fast cops came twice. It went well because they laughed at that camera and I gave it to them to look it through the viewfinder. That thing breaks the barrier !
But you never know, the third time might no be the same.
It should have gone well simply because you weren’t breaking the law. They have to investigate if they get a call, but they shouldn’t need to do anything more than ask a couple questions. Even checking your ID is a step too far.
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Re: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street
I have not actually done any street photography with a tripod and LF camera . . .
But I might think about getting a high nvisability vest like street workers use, along with a yellow hard hat and a few orange cones. The idea is that if you lok like you are authorized, there will be less bother.
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Re: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street
Drew, I have friends that moved to Houstin last winter
Both got good inside jobs
No idea what your work was
but outside workers dress for the weather with scuffed work boots
drive a white pick me up
white hard hat
and learn how to pitch your voice to a coworker's ears in noise
Full size dirty cone
Clip board, pencils, Biz Cards, give them to everybody
Carry the Habs rules and spin a story to fit
I always had magnitic signs for my truck
50 years ago I was 'Randy's Rolling Repair'
be very honest and don't gawk the ladies
Bring prints to your people
give them away
they will help you
I was a winter Texan for years camped next to https://www.amazon.com/s?k=confedera...l_8u33pev78c_b
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Drew Bedo
I have not actually done any street photography with a tripod and LF camera . . .
But I might think about getting a high nvisability vest like street workers use, along with a yellow hard hat and a few orange cones. The idea is that if you lok like you are authorized, there will be less bother.
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Re: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Drew Bedo
I have not actually done any street photography with a tripod and LF camera . . .
But I might think about getting a high nvisability vest like street workers use, along with a yellow hard hat and a few orange cones. The idea is that if you lok like you are authorized, there will be less bother.
Not on the street but 30 yards off a main road, just the other day I pulled off the road into the breakdown lane / shoulder, put flashers on, and a cone out, I spent 3 minutes out of my car taking 2 photographs with what I had handy as preliminary photographs, and 2 police cruisers questioned why I was on land that is supposed to be public land. Strange days ahead.
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Re: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street
I’ve had this sort of crap doing urban landscape photography many times, not only with the fuzz, but occasionally subway ‘cops’ and security guards. I found it worst from a # of incidents perspective in the years following nine-eleven, but the level of danger is probably higher now when it comes to the likelihood of being shot or clubbed or choked or shaken down by the law here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jnantz
Not on the street but 30 yards off a main road, just the other day I pulled off the road into the breakdown lane / shoulder, put flashers on, and a cone out, I spent 3 minutes out of my car taking 2 photographs with what I had handy as preliminary photographs, and 2 police cruisers questioned why I was on land that is supposed to be public land. Strange days ahead.
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Re: Avoiding harassment when shooting in the street
Last time I was in Montreal was 2008
I was amazed how the junkies were camping on sidewalks
and openly sell junk
I like the underground
but why no train from airport?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Michael R
I’ve had this sort of crap doing urban landscape photography many times, not only with the fuzz, but occasionally subway ‘cops’ and security guards. I found it worst from a # of incidents perspective in the years following nine-eleven, but the level of danger is probably higher now when it comes to the likelihood of being shot or clubbed or choked or shaken down by the law here.