LPL 4550XL + Heiland LED Explainer?

So now that my lamp is acting up in my 4550XL one thing I'm considering is adapting my enlarger to the Heiland system. Probably not splitgrade since I have an Analyser Pro. I'd be interested color printing and B&W, but I'm curious to know how exactly how the system integrates with the LPL...


Stop me where I'm wrong. It looks like you install the LED and it takes the place of A. The Halogen and the fan. B. The diffusion box. & C. The filter module aka VCCE or Dichro set. Instead of using the filter module you use Heiland controllers to modulate the colors of the LEDs to make grades or dichro filter levels.

Do I have this right?

I'm at the point where if I can't find a tech to repair my power supply, I can spend about $600+ on a new one, or spend nearly $2k on a whole new Heiland LED system. Any advice for me here?

You might try contacting George Brown (seller "apogeebee" on eBay) to see whether he works on enlarger power supplies. He does work on heads - a few years back he CLA'd my 4500II dichroic head after the filter mechanism gummed up, and for much less than it would have cost to send it to KHB in Ontario.

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Originally Posted by sperdynamite

...Stop me where I'm wrong. It looks like you install the LED and it takes the place of A. The Halogen and the fan. B. The diffusion box. & C. The filter module aka VCCE or Dichro set. Instead of using the filter module you use Heiland controllers to modulate the colors of the LEDs to make grades or dichro filter levels.

Do I have this right?...

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Those sound like reasonable conclusions. Why not contact Jürgen Heiland and ask him directly? He can be reached at

infoheilandelectronic.de

and was very helpful when I had him adapt his 4x5 LED source to my 23C a dozen years ago, long before he'd developed specific models for numerous different enlargers.

I'd write Herr Heiland myself, but am afraid of how elegant his LED solution might be for my LPL 4500II. It's working fine with the halogen source, and I prefer not to be tempted by something as expensive as 1590€, even if I could use my existing Splitgrade controller, now that I'm retired. :)

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Originally Posted by Sal Santamaura

Those sound like reasonable conclusions. Why not contact Jürgen Heiland and ask him directly? He can be reached at

infoheilandelectronic.de

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What I would do! However, the LPL 45 series enlargers are so well made, I can't see what could be gained with an LED head that the Dichroic or VCCE head would not provide. You also could buy a used power supply at auction. I bought a 250W light module and power supply for my LPL 4500-II for $78 at auction.

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Originally Posted by Luis-F-S

...I can't see what could be gained with an LED head that the Dichroic or VCCE head would not provide.

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Lack of heat and, therefore, the ability to use a glassless 4x5 carrier without flatness issues. This is a big advantage with films having very glossy emulsion sides, such as TMX and Acros, that can cause Newton's rings when in contact with glass carriers' plain bottom glass.

Heat is transmitted a number of ways. One is by electromagnetic radiation which originates from either LED or incandescent. If one thinks a high power LED enlarger light source won't heat a negative, then one has never measured it.

My understanding is that the other advantage is that I will essentially never have to replace the bulbs and that they will be consistent throughout their lifetime. Not that $12 dollar Halogens really break the bank. For sure there is no sensible economic argument to the upgrade. I'm spending a lot to get the convenience of not having to replace modules or bulbs. But also those that have made the upgrade seem to rave about the results so there must be something to it.

If I go forward with it I will likely sell my VCCE and Dichro modules so that reduces the 'hurt' just a bit. I will miss thee VCCE, as I hardly knew ye. But if the LED completely replaces it then there you go.

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Originally Posted by ic-racer

...If one thinks a high power LED enlarger light source won't heat a negative, then one has never measured it.

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I've never placed a thermocouple at the negative plane to actually measure it, but have been using my Heiland LED head for more than a decade and found no sensible heating or deformation/popping of negatives during long exposures. As noted in post #3, this is a 4x5 head. It has a quite substantial heat sink on top (like those seen in Heiland's current Web site illustrations), which also never becomes warmer to the touch than very, very slightly above ambient.

I'm not sure what "high power" means in this context, but whatever the Heiland 4x5 head dissipates, it dissipates well, and negative heating ain't much. :)

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Originally Posted by Sal Santamaura

Lack of heat and, therefore, the ability to use a glassless 4x5 carrier without flatness issues. This is a big advantage with films having very glossy emulsion sides, such as TMX and Acros, that can cause Newton's rings when in contact with glass carriers' plain bottom glass.

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Heat is not a problem with LPL!

Aside from heat are there any other advantages that are significant over a halogen set up?

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Originally Posted by Luis-F-S

Heat is not a problem with LPL!

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Not with a glass carrier, which maintains negatives flat regardless of the fact that they're noticeably heated. With a glassless carrier, it most definitely does cause significantly more deviation from flatness than the slight amount negatives already exhibit when cold.

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Originally Posted by sperdynamite

Aside from heat are there any other advantages that are significant over a halogen set up?

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You enumerated them yourself in post #7. :)

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Originally Posted by sperdynamite

Aside from heat are there any other advantages that are significant over a halogen set up?

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IMHO, a word: No, except to make money for Heiland, the LED head manufacturer!

Since photographers like to think up problems that don't exist, I measured the temperature rise on a 6x6 negative with an IR thermometer in the standard glassless carrier, on an LPL 4500-II with a VCCE head, being turned on for a total of 10 minutes. The bulb was the 250W halogen recommended for this enlarger.

negative temperature at start: 66.9°F
light on for 1 minute-negative temp: 74.5°F
light on for 2 minutes-negative temp: 76.2°F
light on for 3 minutes-negagive temp: 79.4°F
light on for 4 minutes-negative temp: 83.9°F
light on for 7 minutes-negative temp: 83.9°F
light on for 10 minutes-negative temp: 83.3°F

So it would appear that the temperature at the negative stage stabilized after 4 minutes or so. The negative remained in focus the entire time. There is no negative pop at 83-84°F. If you get it to pop at that temperature, you have much bigger problems.

How often do you replace the EVW bulb? I'm still on the original bulb I put in the enlarger. I've bought some 50 odd EVW bulbs at auction for an average cost of $3.48 ea. And how much does an LED head cost?

A 16.4°F rise most definitely distorts a 4x5 negative in the LPL glassless carrier. Concomitant decrease in relative humidity of the emulsion makes this pronounced.

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Originally Posted by Sal Santamaura

A 16.4°F rise most definitely distorts a 4x5 negative in the LPL glassless carrier. Concomitant decrease in relative humidity of the emulsion makes this pronounced.

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That's your opinion, have anything to back it up? I use glass carriers, so I don't have a horse in this race, besides, I print sheet film in a 5108 NOT the LPL, which I only use for 6x6 and 135. Besides, most enlarger exposures are in the 20-30 sec range in which time, the temperature increase will be negligible.

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Originally Posted by Sal Santamaura

A 16.4°F rise most definitely distorts a 4x5 negative in the LPL glassless carrier. Concomitant decrease in relative humidity of the emulsion makes this pronounced.

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Originally Posted by Luis-F-S

That's your opinion, have anything to back it up?...

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Your data from post #12 and my experience with 4x5 sheet film in both glass and glassless LPL carriers in my 4500II. :)

Yes, minutes and not seconds and my 35 year experience with 4x5, 5x7 8x10 and 11x14; and enlarging in both glass and glass-less carriers gives a different opinion from yours!

Luis, please give it a rest already. My experience with a 4500II is the same as Sal's. He's not making this stuff up.

I ordered the Heiland set up from Catlabs today. I'm just not that interested in a project and the upgrades sound worth it to me.

Good luck, please do let us know what you think once you've had a chance to use it!

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Originally Posted by Oren Grad

Good luck, please do let us know what you think once you've had a chance to use it!

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Indeed, and, if possible, please include some pictures of the installation. Thanks in advance.

It arrives tomorrow, I'll hopefully do a full rundown.

Going on three years with my Heiland LED VC unit (Zone 6 series 2 enlarger), and must say that this has been one of the best darkroom investment I've ever made. Consistent, efficient, absolutely reliable - has easily more than paid for itself in terms of time and paper saved, and has helped me to further explore creative avenues which before this were, at least for me, exceedingly difficult. Have Fun!

Got it installed and we are in business. More on this to follow. I need to build a console because cables are everywhere!

Pictures of everything including the before and after cable box

Please

I am very interested in Heiland and here is a video by maker https://youtu.be/P--pyN1mWH4

https://photos.app.goo.gl/vPzs1wqeUKY89JAG6

I have some photos up of the various parts. The install was simple. You just take the mixing box out, and drop in the LED panel in it's place. It also comes with a cap to the enlarger that seals off the light and allows the cable to exit the head.

The controller boxes are connected via scuzzy type. A bit of a PITA if you're like me and likely to be swapping between the cold light and color controllers.

The cold light is very straightforward. You have grades 00-5, plus an 'electric' aperture if you will. I will likely standardize around 1 brightness setting so as not to introduce too many variables.

Now the color controller is where it gets interesting. CMY controls that I'm used to? Nope. RGB numbers that go from 0-400. It actually takes forever to cycle from one end to the other. 0 appears to just be fully off. 400, the opposite. The instructions has a handy guide for how to think about balancing color, but it also says that the points should go from 0-200, so something must have changed.

I'm used to the standard never touch cyan, start at a 'certain combination' according to the box. This is all new to me. I think it's going to take a while to get used to.

The other note is that the lamp/fan housing and module slot have basically no purpose now. However the enlarger looks a little funny with it removed. I might try to find a 'white light' module so I can sell my VCCE and Dichro sets.

Any questions?!

Yes, did you buy a Split Grade Module?

If not what if any module?

How bright is it?

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Originally Posted by Tin Can

Yes, did you buy a Split Grade Module?

If not what if any module?

How bright is it?

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No split grade, as you can see from the pictures I have an Analyser Pro. The SG is probably better, but it's over a grand and I was already spending a ton. The modules are the cold light standard multigrade controller, and the color controller.

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Originally Posted by sperdynamite

...The controller boxes are connected via scuzzy type. A bit of a PITA if you're like me and likely to be swapping between the cold light and color controllers...Any questions?!

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Is the interface actually SCSI or are you simply commenting on the D-type connectors?

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Originally Posted by Sal Santamaura

Is the interface actually SCSI or are you simply commenting on the D-type connectors?

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I have no idea. They look like a scuzzy so I call them a scuzzy.

Can you post a photo of the head on the enlarger?

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Originally Posted by Luis-F-S

Can you post a photo of the head on the enlarger?

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I will do that tomorrow. But the head looks the same as it does normally. You see the LED panel in my pictures, that panel just sits on the space where the mixing box was. The light is just above the negative stage.

Here is a photo of the enlarger from the top showing the new plate plus the LED cable coming out. Note that the VCCE module and lamp housing which you can still see is now superfluous.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/iiZH8rSbpTquJWXs9

And here is the interior of the enlarger. This is where the mixing box would sit, but you can see in it's place the LED panel is there. Really simple. You don't even screw it down, it just rests inside on the same platform.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/eSUTbhBq3VVxNF4f7

The Heiland diffusion panel is glass or plastic?

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Originally Posted by Tin Can

The Heiland diffusion panel is glass or plastic?

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I'm not sure, I didn't want to spend any time pawing at it. It appears white when the light is off, as you can see from the photos.

Yes of course it is white :)

I am just curious

It's exciting to see more than others have shown

carry on

Thank you for posting!

[QUOTE=sperdynamite;1535242]Here is the interior of the enlarger. This is where the mixing box would sit, but you can see in it's place the LED panel is there. Really simple. You don't even screw it down, it just rests inside on the same platform.

So does it take the place of the light box?

Thanks for posting this, I have several LPL 4550 XLG enlargers and have considered going to a remote fan on the one that prints to the floor to avoid associated vibrations. But going with a Heiland LED head might avoid that concoction all together.

I am surprised at how fast you got it, the website shows a three week lead time. I'll inquire with them to see what the stock situation is.

[QUOTE=Luis-F-S;1535282]

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Originally Posted by sperdynamite

Here is the interior of the enlarger. This is where the mixing box would sit, but you can see in it's place the LED panel is there. Really simple. You don't even screw it down, it just rests inside on the same platform.

So does it take the place of the light box?

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Yes, the mixing box is completely removed. The LED panel sits in it's place.

So since it’s right on top of the negative how hot does it get? Have you checked?

Holy crap this thing is bright. From 0 on the Analyser Pro I'm down about 3 stops from grades 00-3, and 5 stops down for grade 5. And that's with setting it to -20 on the LED's built in brightness controls.

Ok it’s bright! How hot is it?

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Originally Posted by Luis-F-S

Ok it’s bright! How hot is it?

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It puts off basically no heat. I'm not measuring it with a thermometer though.

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Originally Posted by sperdynamite

It puts off basically no heat. I'm not measuring it with a thermometer though.

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Measure with an IR thermometer if you have one. Otherwise it's a guess. L

I don’t have one.