Myths, I Need Some Updated Advice Please

Hi,

I am posting this I guess after coming out of a 10 year absence from my hobby, I trust my questions might be very basic, but I appreciate your patience.

I am a B&W enthusiast, I own several cameras but my pride and joy is my 4x5 Linhof Technica. I own the basic 150, along with a 210 and a 90 lens. My incentive to get back to my camera is simply put, I now have the time.

At the time I left the hobby I was building a darkroom, I had the plumbing and all the cabinetry installed but I came short on time and funds, and time slipped by, 10 years.

Going back to the marker by the road where I left , I find that my notes had me looking at a set up that involved a 4x5 enlarger (perhaps a Saunders or a Beseler), and setting up a system that would allow me to process film and paper prints (not RC).

I have in the last month made my rounds to a variety of photo supply retailers, some were helpful, some of my trusted places are now out of business.

One thing became painfully clear, there is a serious lack of support now out there for my B&W appetite, some retailers have dropped all semblance to it completely. I am still determined to make fine prints but with the huge amount of conflicting information out there I am confused.

I would like to ask in basic terms, for a hobbyist my self, what is the current state of affairs in the B&W 4x5 Hobbyist world. I am focused on making traditional silver based prints on quality paper, using traditional chemical tray processes for paper and film, using traditional darkroom methods.

With patience I appreciate your informed responses and advice, I feel like I may have to learn to walk again if much has changed.

Take care,
Jim Shaver
Oakville, Ont

Never been better.

Used equipment of high quality is almost free for the taking. A fairly wide choice of materials is available if you don't mind mail order.

Oakville?

Staying with in Canada:

http://www.photococan.com/catalog.htm

http://www.jdphotochem.com/

http://www.harrysproshop.com/Used_Large_Format/used_large_format.html

http://www.khbphotografix.com/

Leaving Canada:

http://www.jandcphoto.com/

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/sc_main.php

Plus B&H and Adorama.

I think you'll find that ordering online, rather than at a well-stocked local retailer, is pretty much the current state of affairs. Aside from the shift in sources, everything else remains pretty much the same. Some products have disappeared (as they did in past decades), others have been replaced with "new and improved" versions.

Welcome back Jim;

There are still plenty of us hobbyists/ artists around. Yep a lot has changed in the past ten years, some for the worse, but also some good things too. The main difference is that many many photographers have switched to digital.

Yes there are far fewer retailers who carry equipment and supplies and offer knowledgeable information. On the bright side, there are several very good web sites where you can buy what you need at a reasonable price.

My favorite aspect of today's situation is that the prices on used gear have dropped like a rock. If you're patient you can find great deals on the auction site and at used equipment dealers.

There is far more information available now on the web. The problem is that the ratio of good info to bad hasn't changed much. You still have to figure out a lot on your own.

One more bright note; the more photographers there are using digital, the more unique your work will be.

Also, since a lot of people are using mail order, they have access to a much greater variety of materials.

I wouldn't have thought of mixing my own developer formulas, for instance, fifteen years ago, because I wouldn't really know where to get the supplies. Now I can just order from three or four suppliers specializing in photographic chemical components off the net, and if I want, I can check out the prices at general chemical supply houses.

Also try Calumet Photographic: http;//www.calumetphotographic.com

Calumet has extensive & knowledgable support for large format black & white and color photography.

Hi Jim -

Well, nothing has changed, and everything has changed! Whatever potential existed in the traditional darkroom is still there, and there's plenty of good materials available. On there other hand, you're going to have to get used to explaining to digi-cam users why you're still using film :-)

There's no real reason to be a Luddite, but you can have a fulfilling artistic experience without ever touching a computer. Buy a bunch a film and paper and have a good time.

As for suppliers, B&H and Freestyle get most of my business, but there other good ones.

Good luck!

If you haven't done so yet, go to eBay and browse through the large format and film sections. Even if you have no intention of buying there, or of buying used, it gives a great snapshot of what is going on in the marketplace.

Did ReadyLoads and QuickLoads exist 10 years ago? Maybe not. If you don't mind paying the premium price, they represent a great improvement in terms of cleanliness, ease of use, compactness and light weight. No, you can't get Tri-X in a ReadyLoad, but for me the mechanical advantages are overwhelming, so I get by with T-Max. Why load filmholders if you don't have to?

This may not be news, but many cameras and chemicals are manufactured at cottage industry scale, with companies such as Wehman and Walker cranking out cameras, while Photographer's Formulary and Bostick & Sullivan produce chemicals, in a small enough quantities that they can thrive in the limited LF market. And you will find that most LF companies are very friendly and helpful: there are people behind the websites, who will gladly discuss your needs and concerns over the phone, or through email.

Film and paper seem like the weak links, but there are even some products out there from places other than US/Germany/Japan: Bergrruen in France, Efke in Eastern Europe somewhere, Seagull in China, etc.

One more online store of import is www.badgergraphic.com.

Jim, after some 50 years I got started again. Its an adventure. In my opinion there is nothing wrong with RCs as such. Some are better than others. Some are easier to bleach & tone than others. RC is easier to mount.

Do some reading! There are several excellent books available that will be a big help in deciding what you want to do and what equipment you will want. Post Exposure by Ctein I have found most useful, along with Stroebel's book on view cameras. Dr. Richard Henry's book "Controls in Black and White photography has a lot of information. The more you know the better your decisions will be.

A tip: Go to APUG.ORG's classifieds or http://www.photo.net/gc/view-category-multi?primary_category=Large+Format
and simply ask if anyone living within x miles (kilometers??) of your location has a 4x5 enlarger to sell.

I purchased a Saunders VGGE from someone three hours away. Cost $250, including an old enlarging lens. Worth the drive to pick it up!!

Many enlargers are sitting around because they are too bulky and somewhat finicky for shipping, and they languish, awaiting an opportunist!

Welcome back!

Far fewer local camera stores than there were ten years ago, fewer still with much of a selection of film cameras, fewer than that with an inventory of black and white materials. That's partly due to the increasing popularity of mail order (though I guess there's a chicken-egg question there), also partly due to the fact that a few years ago Wolfe/Ritz went around buying up a whole bunch of good local stores all over the country and converted them to Wolfe/Ritz Camera stores, which are pretty much useless for what you want to do.

Zone VI Studios, which 10 years ago was my favorite source for innovative products and quality photography equipment, was sold to Calumet and Calumet has pretty well wrecked it. Calumet is a good source but their prices for many things are higher than other places. FWIW my favorite New York mail order dealer is Adorama, my least favorite is B&H. My favorite used equipment dealer is MidWest Photo Exchange.

Ten years ago Shutterbug magazine was the principal national source for used photography equipment. Today there are almost no classified ads in Shutterbug, it's function has been replaced and vastly expanded by eBay. Spend some time there in the camera and photo section and you'll see lots of great deals on darkroom and other film-based equipment. Stuff that sold for hundreds and thousands of dollars just a few years ago is going for peanuts today if it's going at all. You can pick up a great 4x5 enlarger with lenses and accessories for a couple hundred dollars, less if you're willing to pick it up, and why not spend a day or two on the road picking one up.

The large format camera manufacturers that were around 10 years ago are mostly still around and there are some new (or at least more visible) ones (e.g. Ebony, Walker) though some models have been dropped and others added. However, if you have a Linhof Technika you probably aren't in the market for a new camera anyhow.

Much more information on the web than there was 10 years ago, almost all manufacturers and retailers have web sites today, most are pretty useful, some are outstanding (Schneider comes to mind as one of the best in terms of information about its products).

Kodak, Agfa, and Ilford have been having their troubles. Ilford just came through bankruptcy and it remains to be seen what happens. Agfa split off its film division to a new company only six or seven months ago and now the new company is in bankruptcy. Kodak has discontinued many of the more specialized films and papers it used to make and its troubles have been well publicized. OTOH, some smaller companies have sprung up to fill the gap (Bergger, Efke) and Kodak continues to make some of the films (TMax, TriX) and papers (Polymax Fine Art) you knew 10 years ago.

Obviously digital is the present and future of photography, film and even more so darkroom is a niche today. I haven't been to an exhibit of contemporary photography in the last couple years that didn't include digital prints. The equipment, as well as the materials and their life-span, have vastly improved from what they were ten years ago and the old prejudice among galleries and collectors against digital is disappearing (except in the case of a few people who participate here : - )). However, the decline in the popularity of film based photography works to your benefit when it comes to buying used equipment and if you want to stick with film and darkrooms so much the better for you (as long as you don't mind the fact that you won't be seeing any new products and existing products for the most part have a questionable future).

Hi Jim,

I develop my B&W 4x5 stuff in home-made BTZS style tubes and trays. The tubes are easy to make, work well and keep chemical usage to a minimum. I then scan the negs on an Epson 4870 scanner and print them on a Canon S900 printer, although I'll be getting one of the new Epson R2400 printers in the next few months. My darkroom is a basement bathroom. The materials for the tubes and the trays and other equipment cost between $150 and $200 at Henry's and Vistek. The scanner and and an equivalent printer cost about $1000 together.

If you're looking for an enlarger, Henry's Outlet Centre on Queen west of Church often has used 4x5 enlargers like Omega D2s for sale for reasonable prices.

I'll bring one of my tubes in to work tomorrow. Yes, I work with you. Small world, eh?

Regards,

Steve

Toronto

Jim,

Lots of fun ahead! New films and papers from eastern europe to evaluate, 4X5 enlargers and enlarging lenses---really good lenses---going for cheap on the used market. Heck, theres even the trinity---D76, Dektol and Tri-X still available. Even Rodinal is still around and Ansco 130 is available Photographer's Formulary. As you've discovered, the local camera store probably isn't interested in stocking 5 grades of FB enlarging paper anymore, but there are a variety of materials out there you can mail order and most establishments I've done business with are very good. Welcome to the niche market! There is a small group of merchants who want your business and mine and they've been pretty good at taking care of customers. A great time for traditional photography. Enjoy! You can get a D2 cheap enough and a Companon lens on eBay if theres nothing available in your immediate area. I picked up a Saunders four blade easel for $10 from a lab that was getting digitized so there are real deals out there. Try Ilford FP-4+ or Efke PL100 and Kentmere Bromide for starters. Have fun!

Jim, I got my 4x5 enlarger from KHB Photographix in Mississauga. It is used, and they put together a package of lenses for me -- great service. their phone number is 905 - 670-5166. I dealt with Peter.

Thank You EveryOne!!!

I feel totally at home here on this forum, you all have been most kind to my basic questions, I truely appreciate this.

All of your replies have been very very helpful, I have some amazing leads now and I almost feel dangerous again!!

:-)

I have been participating on Wooworking forums now for about 8 years and I felt there had to be some forum out there that could help me with my quest to get back to LF fun.

If it's permitted I would like to also mention a project I have been working on that can be found at the following URL

www.pensforcanadianpeacekeepers.com

Again, I look forward to participating and learning in this fine community,
Take care,

Jim Shaver
Oakville, Ont

Jim, check out Fine Art Photo Supply. Their 4x5 film is similar to FP4+ so they say. I made ten exposures and developed for 8 min in D76 undiluted. Well I can`t find grain in a 8x10 with the 10x Pear magnifier. Tones are creamy smooth and speed is right on at 125.

Best of all, it was $50 for 100 sheets. 1/2 the cost of tri x.

By the way, I developed most on hangars and forgot one which I did in my 4x5 Nikor tank. Times are the same either way for D2 condendenser.

http://www.fineartphotosupply.com/.

"Jim, check out Fine Art Photo Supply. Their 4x5 film is similar to FP4+ so they say. I made ten exposures and developed for 8 min in D76 undiluted. Well I can`t find grain in a 8x10 with the 10x Pear magnifier. Tones are creamy smooth and speed is right on at 125. "

Only they don't sell it anymore because Ilford doesn't sell noname film to rebranders since their reorg....