Intrepid 4x5 enlarger worth it? Any experiences?

Hi all,

I’m about to jump head first into large format photography [emoji16] and so I’m trying to finesse my first kit. Since I’m interested in 3 possibly unrelated photography styles, I need to leave myself lots of flexibility.

“Regular” 4x5 bw work;
6x17 panoramics;
Tintype;

I have the option for a free 4x5 camera, I just need to get a lens and some film carriers. Camera is very good and I feel would more than suffice for all above purposes. Roll film and tintypes I’d of course, scan but 4x5 I wish to print.

Space and money comes at a premium so a small solution like the Intrepid 4x5 kit looks very appealing…. Any experiences or recommendations there?

I could use my camera and lens, fit it with their light and it’s off to the races.

I’d love to be able to make fiber based prints, upt to a max size of 50x60 cm (like… 20x30 in?).

Many thanks in advance for all the replies! :)


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Do your research first. You can get a lot of used 4x5 enlargers -- in great shape -- for next to nothing nowadays.

The Intrepid enlarger has been discussed quite a bit lately on this FORUM. Others will jump in with their opinions to this post, but I'd suggest you also do an ADVANCED SEARCH (upper right hand corner of this screen) for INTREPID ENLARGER -- select TITLE ONLY.

Hey, thanks for the reply, much appreciated. I did do a search (maybe not advanced, I don’t remember) but wasn’t really any smarter with what I read.

I understand that the current version is much improved and comes with a “color head” of a sort so both bw and color is possible. Contrast filters also built in which is a huge convenience.

The thing is, I live in Croatia and it’s really not feasible to purchase an old 4x5 enlarger, plus, I would use their light source for negative scaning as well (for the 6x17 negs).

Probably woll have a very small space so no proper enlargers are possible unfortunately :/


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I use it and find it great. Like you, where I live finding a 4x5 enlarger is a pipe dream so the Intrepid Kit comes to the rescue.

I would suggest getting a good copy stand that you can mount the camera to, that's pretty important. Also make sure that your 4x5 camera has a graflok back and that the enlarger kit can fit. I'd also recommend that you look for 135mm enlarger lens instead of the standard 150mm as you'll be able to print bigger with less height.

I've used plenty of enlargers and I've gotten great results with the Intrepid Kit; yeah it's a little finicky to set up and you have to align it every set up but the results are good.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Amoore

I use it and find it great. Like you, where I live finding a 4x5 enlarger price is a pipe dream so the Intrepid Kit comes to the rescue.

I would suggest getting a good copy stand that you can mount the camera to, that's pretty important. Also make sure that your 4x5 camera has a graflok back and that the enlarger kit can fit. I'd also recommend that you look for 135mm enlarger lens instead of the standard 150mm as you'll be able to print bigger with less height.

I've used plenty of enlargers and I've gotten great results with the Intrepid Kit; yeah it's a little finicky to set up and you have to align it every set up but the results are good.

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Amoore, thanks, this is very reassuring :D. Basically, I get a darkroom printer and a film scanner in one package AND it's all small. So, you think I should go for a 135 enlarger lens instead of a 150 camera (shooting) lens? Because, the plan was to get a Fujinon 150, to see if I like this whole affair... and use that one for printing.

Also, I see that Intrepid suggests printing up to 20x24 inches, not larger. Does this mean that this kit cannot print larger (say, by wall projection) or they simply do not recommend it? :) Considering my skill level and the cost of materials, I doubt I will ever attempt larger prints but just asking.

A 135mm lens would be better for your situation, but if you were thinking of getting a Fujinon 150mm large format lens for your camera -- and use that as an enlarging lens -- I'd try that first, even though it's not an enlarging lens. If you want larger prints, but can't get big enough with your set-up, one approach is to put a +1 diopter close-up lens on the 150mm.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xkaes

A 135mm lens would be better for your situation, but if you were thinking of getting a Fujinon 150mm large format lens for your camera -- and use that as an enlarging lens -- I'd try that first, even though it's not an enlarging lens. If you want larger prints, but can't get big enough with your set-up, one approach is to put a +1 diopter close-up lens on the 150mm.

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what sort of distortion does that cause?

While I generally agree that 135mm enlarging lens would give a little more flexibility for your enlarger setup...if you want just one lens for making enlargements and taking photographs, and at a very reasonable price, then I'd recommend the 150mm G-Claron.

I use 135mm on a wonderful Beseler CB7

Power adjust, Tilts too

Bigger condenser

Love it on OE Table

I can use it in wheelchair

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Torquemada

what sort of distortion does that cause?

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The amount of distortion depends on the diopter strength, the quality of the CU lens, and the aperture used. So basically there is no noticeable distortion for a #1 good quality CU lens stopped down two f-stops:

http://www.subclub.org/fujinon/close-up.htm

A #1 CU lens on a 150mm creates a 130mm lens -- no change in f-stop.

Here is a high quality Minolta #1 CU lens on a Fujinon 135mm f5.6 enlarging lens -- producing a 119mm f5.6 lens:

Attachment 245375

FYI, you can do the same thing to "taking" lenses, projection lenses, etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by alex.starbuck

Hi all,

I’m about to jump head first into large format photography [emoji16] and so I’m trying to finesse my first kit. Since I’m interested in 3 possibly unrelated photography styles, I need to leave myself lots of flexibility.

“Regular” 4x5 bw work;
6x17 panoramics;
Tintype;

I have the option for a free 4x5 camera, I just need to get a lens and some film carriers. Camera is very good and I feel would more than suffice for all above purposes. Roll film and tintypes I’d of course, scan but 4x5 I wish to print.

Space and money comes at a premium so a small solution like the Intrepid 4x5 kit looks very appealing…. Any experiences or recommendations there?

I could use my camera and lens, fit it with their light and it’s off to the races.

I’d love to be able to make fiber based prints, upt to a max size of 50x60 cm (like… 20x30 in?).

Many thanks in advance for all the replies! :)


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hi alex.starbuck

while I haven't any experience using that specific enlarger, when I went to google and watched a video of Martin Henson using it
( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfkcGzfJDRc )
it looks like the new version of the graflarger back ( maybe I was looking at the wrong thing? ).
I had one of those graflarger backs and used it a bit ... and it worked OK for what it was. The problem using a camera as an enlarger is
sometimes there is camera-shake, which can be a pain in the neck. Im not sure how that equates / works with making large ( 20x30 ) prints,
but it is something to think about ... have fun with your projects!
john

The best way to search this forum is to use the "Google Site Search" button in the title bar. This will link you to Google, and you input your search request in the square brackets []. All the usual Google search features work. As an example, I input "Intrepid Enlarger" in quotation marks, so it searches for items on this site that contain both words together. Here is the result.

https://www.google.com/search?q=%5B+...-wiz-serp#ip=1

This gives you many links to threads in this forum discussing the Intrepid enlarger. The built-in forum software is very poor for searching, so is usually a waste of time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by alex.starbuck

Amoore, thanks, this is very reassuring :D. Basically, I get a darkroom printer and a film scanner in one package AND it's all small. So, you think I should go for a 135 enlarger lens instead of a 150 camera (shooting) lens? Because, the plan was to get a Fujinon 150, to see if I like this whole affair... and use that one for printing.

Also, I see that Intrepid suggests printing up to 20x24 inches, not larger. Does this mean that this kit cannot print larger (say, by wall projection) or they simply do not recommend it? :) Considering my skill level and the cost of materials, I doubt I will ever attempt larger prints but just asking.

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Can you even buy cut paper larger than 20x24? If not, you will have to use roll paper and cut it yourself. Expensive.

You mention that space and money are at a premium. Fiber paper is not cheap, and processing 20x30 prints can present significant challenges.

I would first calculate very carefully respecting large prints, especially for wall projection. Your parallelism will have to be excellent; your paper nice and flat, and the light from the Intrepid LED source will have to be sufficient to allow workable times. This may be one reason for their recommendation of limiting prints to 20x24. It is also the case that you might find increased illumination fall-off toward the edges with a 135 in comparison with a 150. Others can offer personal experience form making such large prints; I have not made larger than 16x20s.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ulophot

You mention that space and money are at a premium. Fiber paper is not cheap

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Years ago I used to make 30x40 inch Ektacolor and FB B&W prints. I was actually able to use a vertical enlarger for floor projection. It gets expensive very quickly. Made lots of 8x10 or smaller test strips before making the first full size print. When I first had access to an Epson Wide Format printer, I got spoiled really quickly and never looked back. Mostly because of the cost of the materials. Being able to easily print without the help of a second person came a close second. Although I could see the difference in the final prints, very few others could including other photographers.

For large prints, stopped down -- for whatever reason -- you need a lot of light and/or long exposure times. And with long exposure times you can run into RECIPROCITY FAILURE. I've done twenty minute exposures.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xkaes

The amount of distortion depends on the diopter strength, the quality of the CU lens, and the aperture used. So basically there is no noticeable distortion for a #1 good quality CU lens stopped down two f-stops:

http://www.subclub.org/fujinon/close-up.htm

A #1 CU lens on a 150mm creates a 130mm lens -- no change in f-stop.

Here is a high quality Minolta #1 CU lens on a Fujinon 135mm f5.6 enlarging lens -- producing a 119mm f5.6 lens:

Attachment 245375

FYI, you can do the same thing to "taking" lenses, projection lenses, etc.

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those diopters are supposed to ENLARGE the image when used on a normal camera lens. Its been considered normal for the lower quality diopter adapters to cause optical issues on the outer 1/3rd of the image. SO im really curious as im only using 50-100mm lenses on my enlarger

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Torquemada

those diopters are supposed to ENLARGE the image when used on a normal camera lens. Its been considered normal for the lower quality diopter adapters to cause optical issues on the outer 1/3rd of the image. SO im really curious as im only using 50-100mm lenses on my enlarger

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I guess you must have been out sick the day Gullstrand's equation was discussed in class. Here's the Cliff's Notes version of what you missed:

While most people think of close-up lenses strictly for use in close-up photography, they actually have other good uses -- especially if you are using a camera with a bellows. Since the close-up lens shortens the focal length of the lens to which it is attached, it can be used to shorten the focal length of lenses on cameras with flexible bellows. The image will need to be refocused to the distance desired, but with a flexible bellows, focusing to infinity is usually very easy -- even though you are using a close-up lens! The formula and chart below show some of the possibilities with various lenses and close-up lens additions.

COMPUTING ADJUSTED FOCAL LENGTHS
WHEN ADDING SUPPLEMENTARY CLOSE-UP FILTERS/LENSES

Gullstrand's Equation

X = 1000 / ((1000 / Y) + Z)

Where:

Y = the original (or starting) focal length in mm (in green)

Z = the diopter (not the focal length) of the close-up lens to be used (in yellow)

X = the new (or adjusted) focal length in mm (in blue)

Some examples are:

Attachment 245392

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Torquemada

those diopters are supposed to ENLARGE the image when used on a normal camera lens. Its been considered normal for the lower quality diopter adapters to cause optical issues on the outer 1/3rd of the image. SO im really curious as im only using 50-100mm lenses on my enlarger

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The image is enlarged (AKA, magnified) because the focal length of the lens is shortened, but the amount of extension remains the same. And that's what happens when a CU lens is put on an enlarger (or projector) -- the projected image is enlarged. The distance between the enlarger (or the projector) and the paper (or screen) is shortened.

And as to the quality of the results, as mentioned in Post #10 -- The amount of distortion depends on the diopter strength, the quality of the CU lens, and the aperture used. So basically there is no noticeable distortion for a #1 good quality CU lens stopped down two f-stops:

I have an idea -- read what's on the link.

I use one. I was overseas for thirty years and didn't have any access to an enlarger, so on a trip to the US I bought an old Graflarger and used that up til a year or so ago, when I bought the intrepid. I've been back in the US for a few years, but only recently had the chance to set up a little darkroom. I bought a medium format enlarger that I planned to convert to 4x5, but even that was too big for my small space, so reverted to the graflarger with an old Crown Graphic mounted on shelf supports. When I learned about the Intrepid, I thought that would be an easy replacement for the graflarger, then I found a copy stand that fit the space to replace the shelf supports. I used to print fairly large with the graflarger from time to time by shifting my table and putting the easel on the floor or a bench, and I'm sure I could do the same with the Intrepid. I like the built in timer and filters, although I still use a metronome for test strips and dodging and burning.

Since this seems to be the most recent discussion thread on the Intrepid enlarger system, I have a question I hardly see discussed. (Most seem preoccupied with the tipsy-doodle setup with a tripod, and apparently forget how magically useful in such things is duck tape....)

What about the brightness and eveness of illumination from the light source? In the case of the 4x5 model and light source, what about how that goes printing from a 35mm neg? A review on that issue would be very helpful.

(Living in California one also would like to know what Intrepid's return policy is!)