Used gear and availability

Hello everyone,
I´d like to have your opinion about the following topic.
I have the feeling that on the second hand market there is very low availability of large format cameras? In particular recent models from Arca Swiss and Linhof. I don´t expect to find the same availability than consumer digital cameras, of course.
But I am really struggling to find second hand Arca (F-Line, Metric) and Linhof (Technikardan or RE). It seems the whole web has only 1-2 offers (on eBay, Kamerastore and specialized forums).
What´s your opinion? And what about the resell value of such cameras? Can you suggest some good sources where to buy used gear? I am really struggling.
Thank you all.

You will never find a TechniKardan RE. There is only the original TK and the current TK S.
Maybe you are looking for a Kardan RE, a completely different camera.

The used market is certainly a patience game- I have items I have done searches for daily for over a year and they still have not appeared or if so have sold for more than I was willing to pay. I do searches on Arca-Swiss cameras everyday. I already have the camera, just would like a newer version of the rail clamp than the one I currently have. I can tell you that I seem to see at least 1-2 cameras a month come up for auction- just last week an f-line compact 4x5 sold with accessories for what I considered to be a price that was on the low end of what I thought it was worth. Great thing about Arcas is you could just buy two cameras, pull them apart and sort through the pieces with the features you like and build one camera for yourself and sell the undesired parts as a second camera. I guess the other option would be to save a little more and order exactly what you want since they still make and sell them (sadly not the case with many of the lenses we all would like to buy and use). good luck- they are really nice cameras.

Patience, patience, patience...
Took me several years to find a NOBLEX PRO 6/150UX with slow exposure module in mint condition
Mottweiler P.90/2 Stenope pinhole camera: never found one in used condition. Fortunately Kurt decided to make some more of them.
Working S.E.I Photometer: Gave up after years of looking for one. Bought up more than a half dozen broken ones and next project is to see if I can put together a working one.
Keep checking with KEH, Igor's Camera Exchange, and alike on a daily basis. Acquired one lens within hours of it being newly listed FS.

I watch a lot of gear on eNay

I also set searches

When it shows up be ready, but don't buy if....

My Snipe guy is failing, he was great for years

you want the best, you will pay

There is a great deal of Toyo equipment, cameras and accessories on the used market, most of it is very good quality and reasonably priced. Mr. Sakai realized early on the benefits of a thin bellows material and made the transition from lined leather to a single coated fabric layer when the G series and F series were introduced. I have a early Toyo field camera which takes Pacemaker Graphic lens boards and has a leather bellows. The bellows is still supple and completely light tight.

Unfortunately almost every Toyo single layer fabric coated bellows, including "new old stock" have deteriorated and developed pin holes in the corners of the folds. Large format photography is challenging and costly enough for beginners without having to encounter the problems pin holes produce. I had a great deal of experience with other large format cameras which had no pin hole problems before I transitioned from Deardorff 8x10 to the Toyo 8X10M, which I still use. Even then, the pin holes caught me by surprise and I lost a lot of good negatives while trying to track down the problem. At first I thought it was film holder related, and only when I pulled the bellows out tight against the bright sun did I see the pin holes. On the 810M and the 45C I was using at the time, and in which I also discovered pin holes, I replaced the bellows with "lifetime" products from the now closed Western Bellows Co. That was close to twenty years ago and both those bellows are still like new. Over the past few years I rebuilt many Toyo cameras for resale with bellows from well-known eBay seller Rudy. They are excellent but thicker than the single layer Toyo originals, like the Western bellows, and require reworking of the plastic frames to fit.

Three years ago, I discovered Nabel, originally a Japanese camera bellows company, and Dynatect which both make products to the same specification. Two layers of thin but rugged synthetic fabric on a skeleton of synthetic stiffeners, no cardboard at all and these bellows are completely waterproof. Thin like Toyo originals, they fit right on the frames without difficulty. A standard bellows for 4X5 is now $282, but well-worth it in my opinion. I just put one on a Robos.

My strategy has been to buy something that will work for me, then slowly upgrade as the opportunity presents. I mostly follow ebay, classifieds here, and FB groups.


Kent in SD

There aren't a lot of those (Arca-Swiss, Linhof) cameras made today. So finding a late model one used is going to be harder and quite a bit more expensive than mass-produced and quickly obsolete digital cameras.

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Originally Posted by Pieter

There aren't a lot of those (Arca-Swiss, Linhof) cameras made today. So finding a late model one used is going to be harder and quite a bit more expensive than mass-produced and quickly obsolete digital cameras.

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How do you know that there aren’t many made today?

I feel like the whole used market has slowed down a bit during the virus outbreak.

Speaking of Toyo, I'm actually looking for good deal on a nice 45G. Been using a 45E for several years (picked up locally pretty cheap to try out LF) and decided I like it but it has some broken bits so want to get another one in better condition, and the metal parts of the G vs. the plastic of previous models look nice.

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Originally Posted by simdil

Can you suggest some good sources where to buy used gear? I am really struggling.
Thank you all.

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The FS sub forum right here! It'll be accessible after 30 days.
What is it about Arcas and Linhofs that appeal to you? They are very fine cameras of course, but if you are just starting out--- and I don't know that you are or aren't---there are other good cameras that seem to go begging.
If you jump at one you'll
1) start burning film, learning technique.
2) begin building your lens and film holder collection, which you can transfer to a 'hof or Arca when you finally find one

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Originally Posted by Bob Salomon

How do you know that there aren’t many made today?

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True. I don't know. It is a supposition based on expensive, limited market items. Maybe you know?

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Originally Posted by Pieter

True. I don't know. It is a supposition based on expensive, limited market items. Maybe you know?

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I know that both companies are in business and making cameras. While other companies like Sinar went bust and were bought by Leica but don’t make large format any more. While Linhof and Arca still do.

I had been researching LF for about a year and getting a good idea of what camera I'd ideally like to get. Kept an eye on the usual venues (here, eBay, KEH, Adorama, etc), and shortly thereafter a perfect 4x5 Arca Swiss F metric field with orbix showed up on eBay at a very fair price, a photographer was selling his. I bought it, had it gone over by Bob at Precision Camera works and expect to enjoy it for as long as I'm able to shoot.

My point being there are cameras out there, patience and persistence are key.

I would also suggest aligning with the Arca Swiss or Linhof reps (depending on which camera you want), as they have their finger on the market as well as a huge network of existing users, some of whom might want to let go of their cameras.

Warm thanks to everybody for the support and the suggestions.
You are right, it is a matter of patience. Just today a Technikardan popped out on eBay for a good price with some minor defects (spirit levels need replacement, bellow is in rather used conditions...). It´s kind of gambling, not being able to proof and test the camera. But I think it´s a fair deal if compared to the prices of new models.
Again, thank you all and carry on shooting!

Did you win it?
Congratulations and use it in good health!

i agree with gnd2.

Sales and purchases have slowed a lot during the virus.

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Originally Posted by Peter Collins

i agree with gnd2.

Sales and purchases have slowed a lot during the virus.

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As someone who buys everything used and is currently looking for a couple of LF items, I agree. Pretty slim pickings lately. I would have predicted the opposite.


Kent in SD

I think there is a demoraphic/generational aspect6 involved. Production of new LF gear is reduced because no one is shooting LF commercially any more. That limits availability.


Professional LF shooters left the commercial arena years ago and their gear has changed hands a few times in the hobby community. Now the millennials and their offspring, Gens x-Y-Z, have inherited Grampa's stuff . . .and they don't care.

Maybe more stuff will hit the market as folks try to pay the bills in this Pandemic year.

it ie with bitter-sweet memory that I recall the old days of the Houston Camera Show. At its peak in the mid to late 1990s, there were over 250 tables of photographic. Wish I knew then what I know now. I'd have bought every brass lens in sight regardless . . .They were only a few dollars apace then, whatever the maker.

Oh well . . .water over the dam and woulda-coulda-shoulda.

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Originally Posted by Peter Collins

i agree with gnd2.

Sales and purchases have slowed a lot during the virus.

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I think this is true also. Going to the Post Office is PITA right now, (especially in a hard-hit area like where I live).
I had been photographing and preparing a bunch of items I was going to sell - I was doing this at work during lunch break and after work. All that stuff is at work and I have no access to it for the foreseeable future.

Also: how many potential buyers are out there right now? The economy is so uncertain and millions of people are out of work.

Arca-Swiss cameras have always been hard to find as they rarely reach an ad. Friends who have coveted an Arca, will usually pick them off, before an ad is needed.

The only ones you may see are those from earlier series. A B C cameras from 1983 and earlier, and second, F-Line 171 series, 1984-2004. 141 F-Line, M-Line or Universalis, the current series are quite rare for the above reasons.

simdil, the bellows are expensive for a Technikardan (from Linhof) - especially the main bellows. I sent my standard bellows in to a bellows maker in England to have a new one made. The wide angle bellows are more reasonable. The spirit levels seem to go out - I need to replace mine. I typically use a small bullet level instead.

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Originally Posted by Robert Opheim

simdil, the bellows are expensive for a Technikardan (from Linhof) - especially the main bellows. I sent my standard bellows in to a bellows maker in England to have a new one made. The wide angle bellows are more reasonable. The spirit levels seem to go out - I need to replace mine. I typically use a small bullet level instead.

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To the OP: I had a bag bellows made for my TK45S by Custom Bellows in the UK, that they mounted into an extra set of the 45S plastic bellows frames that the previous owner of my camera threw in with the deal. The bag bellows came back perfect and, like Robert says in #23 just above, it was modestly priced. I am sure they could also make you a nice standard bellows as well, but you'll have to provide the suitable frames.

I see there's an Arca Swiss F-Line for sale now on this site.

From what I have heard, Arca was more popular in Europe and Sinar was more popular in the United States. I don't know where you live but it does affect availability of some cameras.

As mentioned above, many times you have to be patient to find what you want at a fair price.

Of course, after you finally buy the camera you want they will start showing up everywhere! ;)

That makes sense - the Arca I purchased was for sale in Europe.

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Originally Posted by Alan Gales

From what I have heard, Arca was more popular in Europe and Sinar was more popular in the United States. I don't know where you live but it does affect availability of some cameras.

As mentioned above, many times you have to be patient to find what you want at a fair price.

Of course, after you finally buy the camera you want they will start showing up everywhere! ;)

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