Night vision solution for brush development / general D.Room work

Hi all,
I would like to have your opinion re this idea of mine. I do brush processing, in darkness obvs and it is long and boring. Would be nice of course to see in the dark. Yep I could buy night vision goggles (expensive) so i thought what about this...
I have a digital (professionally converted to full IR) IR camera, it is very light weight.

If i turn on an IR light in the darkroom, I could then turn on the IR camera and use its screen for night vision.
I could construct a little rig above the dish so i can look at what I am doing with the brush when I develop.
Does anyone think this is viable?

I guess my questions are 2:
1. will the IR camera "see" with the IR light?
2. can normal panchromatic film be fogged by the IR light in the darkroom? (that is the big question)

I tried to google question no 2 specially, with no luck. Can anyone here help me?
thanks in advance.
Of course the price of an IR light is so low, I could test this idea anyway, but I would like to know in advance if it is a no-go from the start! (time is...)

The cameras LCD screen will likely cause fogging. Night vision goggles have very tiny screens that are sealed in the eyecups.

But to answer your question - no, panchromatic film will not normally be fogged by IR. I sometimes use a cheap set of IR goggles in my darkroom with panchro and color materials.

BTW - I use these 'Toy' IR goggles - not very high resolution but they work well for what I need. I did need to seal the 'flip up' hinge with a layer or 2 of electrical tape...
https://www.amazon.com/Spy-Gear-Ulti.../dp/B011NMEVHG

Quote:

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Originally Posted by almostpilot

1. will the IR camera "see" with the IR light?

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Yes, this is a tipical sensor spectral sensitivity:

Attachment 196570

In a regular camera a cut-off filter removes IR light beyond (around) 700nm wavelength, as you see in the grapp an IR converted camera should even reach around 900nm

Quote:

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Originally Posted by almostpilot

2. can normal panchromatic film be fogged by the IR light in the darkroom? (that is the big question)

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This is TMX spectral sensitivity:

Attachment 196571

As you se an IR (common) illuminator that works beyond 750nm would be safe, check datasheets of films and of illuminators. Perhars IR power should no exceed a certain level/time, not sure, but I handle film under IR with no problem.

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I DIY made an "IR vision system"...

With this 7€ Dash Camera, which includes internal battery, camera and screen.

Attachment 196572

Attachment 196573


That focal is not very suitable (too wide), but works well enough for my sporadic usage...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by malexand

The cameras LCD screen will likely cause fogging. Night vision goggles have very tiny screens that are sealed in the eyecups.

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Yes...

but this is a $8 sealed eyecup for dslr screens:

Attachment 196574

WOW
great responses Thank you all!
Pere Casals would you give me a link for the dash camera ? and for that matter for the eyecup too! thanks so much

Can you send a link or the name of the camera? I can then see if i can buy it in Europe

Quote:

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Originally Posted by almostpilot

Can you send a link or the name of the camera? I can then see if i can buy it in Europe

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https://www.ebay.es/itm/HD-2-4-LCD-1...wAAOSw4klbWD5K

It says 1080 lines, but this is the video recording resolution, the screen has way less. There is a button to power the IR LEDs in the front, check fogging with your film, I don't think, but if you get fog then you may use another IR illuminator.


You may attach a supplemantary lens for smartphones to make the focal a bit longer, also you may use two cameras of those for stereo... for that price...

The battery lasts perhaps 15min, but you mau connect an small "battery pack" for smartphones, that lasts for hours

Also you can record your session :)

This is what I use: https://nightfoxstore.com/products/n...vision-goggles

Certainly not as cheap as Pere solution, but not terribly expensive by night vision goggle standards.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alan9940

This is what I use: https://nightfoxstore.com/products/n...vision-goggles

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This is nice because it has 1x view!

Looks unusable with eyeglasses

https://www.amazon.com/Nightfox-Gogg...ustomerReviews

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alan9940

This is what I use: https://nightfoxstore.com/products/n...vision-goggles

Certainly not as cheap as Pere solution, but not terribly expensive by night vision goggle standards.

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These look very nice indeed. And no fogging issues yes?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by almostpilot

These look very nice indeed. And no fogging issues yes?

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I've not had any fogging problems.

There is a cheap infra-red camera available for the Raspberry Pi. A dark-box (ie. more rigid than a dark-bag) could be contructed for film-loading, processing etc. with the camera+led pointing inside it and the screen and psu outside. Not as cheap as the car-cam idea, but sharper at least. Several options indeed :)

This? https://www.seeedstudio.com/Raspberr...le-p-2773.html

Is it the latest PI IR camera?

Pi gear does improve

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MartinP

There is a cheap infra-red camera available for the Raspberry Pi. A dark-box (ie. more rigid than a dark-bag) could be contructed for film-loading, processing etc. with the camera+led pointing inside it and the screen and psu outside. Not as cheap as the car-cam idea, but sharper at least. Several options indeed :)

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My wife's mother gave us an old digital camera, I took the filter away from the sensor and re-assembled it all. I then bought a tiny IR floodlight and put it ontop of a cupboard and pointed it toward the ceiling. These floodlights still emit a small amount of red light, so pointing it toward the ceiling stops that light being a problem. I have made some goggles out of a pair of safety goggles and some light black foam. As yet have not put the camera inside the goggles, but the camera works perfectly, I can read the labels on my chemicals. The only part that needs to be outside the foam is the little zoom lens, so no light leak.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frtQxryDTo8

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Originally Posted by andrewch59

I then bought a tiny IR floodlight and put it ontop of a cupboard and pointed it toward the ceiling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frtQxryDTo8

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Could you point me toward one of these tiny IR floodlights? I seem to only find quite powerful ones online and I am afraid they are too powerful to use in the darkroom. Thanks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alan9940

This is what I use: https://nightfoxstore.com/products/n...vision-goggles

Certainly not as cheap as Pere solution, but not terribly expensive by night vision goggle standards.

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Does this have a built-in infrared light source?

IR Illuminator 850nm 6-LEDs IR Infrared Light with Power Adapter for CCTV Camera

On fee bay

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Originally Posted by jon.oman

Does this have a built-in infrared light source?

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Yes, and it's rechargeable, thereby saving on batteries.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alan9940

This is what I use: https://nightfoxstore.com/products/n...vision-goggles

Certainly not as cheap as Pere solution, but not terribly expensive by night vision goggle standards.

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I will probably go for this in the end. Looks comfortable and 1x means it is going to be very usable.

Thanks gentlemen! I have put this one on my buy list.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tin Can

This? https://www.seeedstudio.com/Raspberr...le-p-2773.html

Is it the latest PI IR camera?

Pi gear does improve

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There are several different manufacturers making Pi related stuff. Some cams are focussable, some have illumination leds, some are waterproof etc. etc. It would be prudent to put a known IR filter over the illumination led(s), just to reduce any problems from vestigial visible (to the film or paper) light.

I have been using an IR night vision monocle for over 10 years now and in a controlled environment like a darkroom where it is not subject to abuse, it should have a long serviceable life. The important variable for a night vision monocle is minimum focusing distance preferably down to 12". Secondly, the ability to turn off the IF light source on the monocle is a good idea since you can acquire a 24 LED IR light bank that plugs into the wall and point it against an adjacent wall and reflect the IR light to your darkroom area. I do not want to see the infamous red glow (telling the user of the device that it is "on") and risk film fogging. I also put an LED IR bank on the wall behind my darkroom sink and hang a $1.00 diffused light globe over it and put it on a foot switch for development by inspection. Two things. Different films look different in IR inspection. FP4 looks like it is way overdeveloped with the IR and it is not. You have to gain a sense of visual relativity for highlight density. Secondly is it is important to look at both sides of the film and get a good level of experience relative to what you are seeing and how it relates to a fixed negative. Again, each sheet film has its own unique characteristic. Fabulous tool. Considering the higher costs of shet film I see this tool as a hedge for better results.

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Originally Posted by Michael Kadillak

Different films look different in IR inspection. FP4 looks like it is way overdeveloped with the IR and it is not. You have to gain a sense of visual relativity for highlight density. Secondly is it is important to look at both sides of the film and get a good level of experience relative to what you are seeing and how it relates to a fixed negative. Again, each sheet film has its own unique characteristic. .

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Can you tell us what TRI X looks like under your IR set up when developing by inspection? Does it look way different like FP4?

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Originally Posted by almostpilot

Can you tell us what TRI X looks like under your IR set up when developing by inspection? Does it look way different like FP4?

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I would love to be able to answer your question with some of my empirical experience, but unfortunately I do not expose Tri X in my work flow. My primary sheet films have been FP4+, Delta 100, T Max 400, T Max 100 and a stash of no longer available Efke 25 in 11x14. I would also add to this topic that I use my Night Vision Monocle as an integral component to my Reduced Agitation Development (RAD) process with Gaseous Burst Agitation in 3.5 gallon tanks (8x10, 5x7 and 4x5) for development by inspection of individual hangers as well as tray development which is a no brainer with this tool because you are literally processing the sheet film with the "lights on" so you can take a lot of the execution risk out of this process that I think hangs some folks up with tray development in the dark. Tried the dim green bulb years ago one time at a seminar and that was enormously more challenging for me to get comfortable with. I will also add that Delta 100 develops much quicker than the other sheet films I use so I take as much as 20% or more out of the expected development time.

That being said it is a reference point that each photographer needs to ascertain for him/herself and it is not that difficult to obtain. Just like using the outflanking printing process I would suggest getting a back lit IR LED under a diffused globe and put it on a foot switch with which to transmit some IR light from behind the negative being inspected on both sides so one can properly check the highlights in your negative. Taking good notes and reviewing them before you begin processing is advisable so you know where to look on each negative for the highlights. Once you see the degree of visual density on each side of the negative with the IR at close to a normal developing time and lock that image in your head you then have the chance to see what it looks like in the fixer tray so you can make some notes to yourself at that point and also when you print that negative for "fine tuning" of your process. Analogous to the outflanking printing technique your first sheet of processing will likely be on the low density side and you can work up from there and dial in your film, your developer and your optimal negative density.