durst enlarger

Izaak, I see you are on the "warpath" again - before we get carried away and start spending hours on a new discussion I suggest that you take contact to Mark and ask him whether what you bring to market is something that he wanted posted. I am sure it is not. The statement is not correct. On Apug it looked to me like Mark logged out before finishing his posting. Mark is an extremely nice person and would never post an un-truth. If an explanation is needed I will be glad to participate but for now I will leave it as it is.

And for your question, Yes De santos has received his parts, months ago, and we did give De Santos and his son extensive help, over the phone, in understanding and using the equipment.

De Santos did promise me to post an answer on this Forum after receiving the parts. Aparently he must have forgotten, as I know him as a man of his word. I do not care. I do not need an apology I am quite content with having gotten Louis up and running and relatively satisfied.

Dear Izaack, I truly believe that your intentions are good, but I must admit that I believe that your "policing" does the entire community more harm than good. If anyone believes that "business" can take place without some conflict they are naive. Whenever there are two opposite interests there is always a potential for a conflict. And there will be in a certain percentage of conflicts in a given mass of "business". The higher the mass the higher the number of incidents. If one party is difficult, and I certainly am, there will be more incidents.

I am difficult to deal with because I have strong opinions, high technical standards, I am struggeling, delivering enlargers in top quality at a "used" pricelevel which, in it self is certain to create incidents. I work long hours at low cost. It does not take much to "upset" my day and create delays and changes in configurations of equipment - there are so many variables.

The bottom line is that I deliver equipment of a da... good quality. At a very reasonable price. Since 1994 I have had only 3 or 4 warranty issues on several hundred enlargers - yes some people have been upset about delays on parts but in the end they have all ended up with a package of a quality that they could never have gotten anywhere else at that price.
And I stand by my customers.

Jens J Jensen

Ok - here is a piece of information that I think belongs on the Largeformat Forum, because it brings something positive to us all:

I have met a photographer, his name is Robert Green. He is located in Indiana. If geniousses exist he must be one. Robert is 85 years, his mind and his energy is incredible, I would say at the level of most 45 year old people. I spent a day printing CARBRO with Mr. Green. We started at 9am and he did not have a breake all day, I did, I sat down and rested for 2 hours while he ran errands with his wife, at 2am, the next morning, Mr. Green wanted to start the next print. I had to ask permission to quit!!!
Anyway, that was the minor part of the experience.

The main experience was his printing skills.
Someone ought to focus some energy on preserving him and his work for the community.

Listen; contact him via Gallery614@aol.com, go visit him, take a lesson with him, buy his book on Carbro Carbon, see his recent exhibition at the Evans Museum, you will be a richer person afterwards.

But beware - he can be difficult, as all artists, I can just hear his roaring laugh when I say this.

Jens

Did you read philosophy in college, dear Jens J Jensen? I find the sophistry of your replies quite stunning.

I am only interested in facts and report the facts as I find them. I am sure the generally high intelligence of the large format community of photographers will do due diligence in ascertaining the truth for itself. I do not have the energy to go on any warpath but it is important that the interest of this community is looked after since it constitutes, no doubt, your target market. You attempt to sell to this group and profit from it so let's not dress up your intentions with any altruistic falafel. At your used price levels of $8000.00, $9000.00 or $10 000.00 and up, it is certainly not insignificant. Do you mean to tell your potential buyers that they are naive to expect anything but flawless service from you at this level of expenditure? Is flawless service too much to ask for in dealing with you? Thanks for the caveat. Buyers beware, I suppose.

It does appear that the crux of the issue appears to be broken promises from you after the money has been paid up in full. This seems to be the main refrain of all the complaints one may have read against you either here or at photo.net and now apug.org. It has nothing at all to do with your personality which most have described as being 'nice'. You do win the award of being 'nice'.

The quickest way of resolving this issue is with facts which you have hardly provided. Lots of talk and lots of suppositions but where are your facts? Nobody really cares how difficult you are or high your standards you have set for yourself purportedly or that you're opiniated; all they really care about is your delivering the items working and on time as you promised or are contractually bound by at the point in time when you accepted their payment.

Or is that too much to ask: that you deliver what you promise? It appears that you consider your clients unreasonable to expect delivery of promised items on time or that they work as you described and promised.

One is never in a good position to judge one's own flaws so don't be so quick to let yourself off so lightly. One can set a fox among the hens and you won't find the fox apologizing for being a fox.

I hope that Luis will pipe in just to clear the air. I do care to hear Luis's story and it is important for the sake of the community just so that we have a handle on with whom we are dealing. And it will also be fair to Jens J Jensen since Luis started this thread.

As I am sure Jens J Jensen has many more satisfied customers than the lone Mr. Jeff Gregar above, perhaps he can rally them to put in their responses in this thread. His integrity is at stake here. It needs defending. It will certainly help him and squash any lingering doubts. I hope that Mr Mark Noble can be persuaded to add his input too since Jens J Jensen knows him as an extremely nice guy who would never post an untruth. Yes, Mr Noble, you currently stand just short of being accused a liar by Jens J Jensen if what you posted on APUG is deemed an untruth or an incorrect statement. Would you also please clear the air?

Izaack Let me start with the middle of your text and say to you:

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying: At the current price level for a hand built enlarger in top condition you cannot expect flawless service also. Period.
I have an established pricelist. This pricelist is constantly being negotiated and compared to “throw away” prices from commercial labs and Ebay. Having to compete in this market is not easy. In order to survive it has been necessary to make some compromises.

Let me give you an example; A large format camera costs 3-5,000.00. This price is generally paid without a frown.
An enlarger that sold +35,000 new is now being sold in re-manufactured condition for $8-10,000.00. This new price is considered expensive and frowned upon.
Compare the two products and you will see that a conflict exist.
What I am saying to the photo community is; consider the fact that cameras are mass produced, off the shelf produced from new and sold at their appropriate values. To re-manufacture an enlarger to new condition we put at least as much labor into it as when it was originally made, and after starting to manufacture from scratch I can see that we are putting almost as much value into the thing via new parts. This makes it very hard to sell at a price of close to 25% of the value it had when originally sold AND if you want this price level to be maintained you have to expect long delivery times and that certain parts can be hard to get. Sometime a situation arise where a part is promised and then turns out to be either missing or unusable and thus creating delays.

After that I would like to answer the general contents of you mail and say: NO sir, you are not acting on facts, you are acting on some ones heated emotion. And in this case you are acting on a comment floating in cyberspace.
If you acted on facts you would first talk directly to the person having posted the complaint, to obtain the FACTS, and then you would talk to the person being accused ALL before you post it publicly.

If you reacted on facts, and if your accusations, or the ones you promote, were correct then there would not be any need for this whole thread. My replies would be very short and would be an apology.

What you do by reacting on gossip, and by bringing undocumented facts to the market, is to create a negative air around the entire business. You approach is aggressive and accusing in manner not necessary. Completely unnecessary. Your way of approaching this whole issue is creating a negative feeling in the whole business, you make people think; “ Well if it is that complicated I will rather go buy an HP printer” and in fact it is not that complicated.

And it is hurting my business.

If you were truly and seriously interested in the mater you would research first. And it would not be hard as you are in possession of both Marks and Louis email addresses.

I doubt your motive sir, what has made you promote your self to policing this business? Are you equally involved elsewhere? Where? Are you a large format photographer or just an interested party?

Why should I, or the business, have the tranquility of our days and our belief in the medium, and in people molested by a persons bad mood? Why should we let our selves be used as lightening rods for someone’s “upset stomach”.

If you were anything but that you would research your issues before you initiated a crusade.

As it stands now I have to spend time defending my work, after doing so some doubt as to my honesty or my sincerity will exists, unfairly. You know the saying, where there is smoke there is probably also a fire. It is human to think like that. It is human to react by thinking so.

Mark Noble got his enlarger delivered in full many months ago, and as far as I remember did not pay till after delivery. After my installation Mark Noble moved his enlarger and in the move upset a chain that is now causing a problem. Mark has asked me to come fix the issue and I have not been able to find the time. He is able to print but it would be more comfortable to do so if the problem is fixed. I feel bad about it not having attended to it so far, but economy has not allowed me the time. And I cannot bill Mark the amount a service visit will cost so he has to wait till I find the time.
This is not an issue that needs to be dealt with in public.

Jensen

Mr Jensen,

As a small business operator myself, this is what I have learnt: the customer is always right even when he is wrong. It is a tough business world, I grant you that. And to ensure that I stay in business, the last place where I would compromise is the service to the customer. In other words, there can be no compromises where my customers are concerned especially when I have taken their money, either partial or in full. My credo goes like this: deliver what I promise, and its corollary, do not promise what I cannot deliver. My customer's demands and time are more important than my own. If I am willing to accept accolades, then I must also be prepared to accept brickbats. If my customer is dissatisfied for any reason, then I am in the wrong and I have failed. In the event that I cannot satisfy them for any reason at all, a full refund is in order. Without customers, there can be no me. It is Business 101 especially in this Internet age where the bad word gets out real fast.

That's my business model but I cannot say thus that it must be yours. So far I have done pretty OK by it. It sounds as if you're trying to tell me that if your clients are dissatisfied, then they're in the wrong because Mr. Jensen must be right.

I salute you, Mr. Jensen, if you think that $10 000.00 is an insignificant amount of money. Regardless of how much the original Durst enlargers really cost, $10 000.00 or even $8 000.00 is not a small sum of money by any person's reckoning. It is the price of a small car and many have to take out a loan just to raise that kind of money. It represents for many, I am painting with a broad brush here, long years of savings, money that could be used towards more needy things. It is not disposable income, in other words.

Many of the people in this forum sacrifice essential daily living needs for the sake of their love: photography, in this case, large format photography. We are idealists and most would consider themselves artists who will gladly trade off necessities for their love of this medium. We are not commercial printing houses where the cost of such enlargers can be written off, amortised as a business expense or recovered in commercial printing. Your products are an expensive proposition, even for someone like Mr. Christopher Burkett. Yes, you fill a need in bringing large format remanufactured Durst enlargers, previously out of the reach of many, to a price point where people can begin to think about barely affording them. For that, I commend you. You have found a niche.

You mustn't forget that you are in the business of targetting this community as a market for your products. Therefore, you must be held to a higher level of scrutiny. In fact, anybody coming to this forum trying to sell anything to any member will be held to such levels of scrutiny. Witness all the warnings about unscrupulous Ebay sellers, for instance. Why should you be surprised? If you consider this a crusade, then so be it. I cannot help your interpretation. I won't apologise for doing my part to keep this community a safer place. I grew up in a city where I must watch my back everyday. Pardon me for being an alarmist by nature but it has kept me alive so far.

You question my motive? My motive is the same as those who have called the business practices of Mr. Ron Wisner or Mr Ken Hough into question. It can only help to keep those who make money off us in check. The wise ones will wise up and quickly keep their nose clean. The unwise ones will continue to make excuses or cast aspersions on their clients. Guess who will remain in business longer? Pardon me if I apply the same standards to you because your products cost, on average, so much more than theirs.

I do not doubt that Mr. Jeff Gregar got good service from you. Just as I do not doubt the words of Messrs De Santos, Noble and Desalvo. Your products simply cost too much for anyone to spend that amount just for the sure pleasure of taking potshots at you in public. All anybody wants at that level of expenditure is for an item to work as promised. If your service and product standards are as high as those you set for yourself, I grant you that all these brickbats won't be happening today; you will only be getting accolades.

It is easy to say that there is a conspiracy out to get you. You seem to forget that the complainants are all widely separated apart in space and time. How would they make almost word for word the same complaint about you? Common sense would dictate that, yes, where there is smoke, there is fire. Can you blame us for being human? Because we are human! Just as it is human to lie, steal, cheat, renege on one's promises, and waffle on service. Sorry, I am a pessimist too and can only see the dark side of human nature.

One thing I am glad though: you have put your business model plainly for all to see. Henceforth, please note that one cannot expect nor demand flawless service from Mr. Jensen. Mr. Jensen has stated categorically that you will not and cannot expect that so let no-one who gives his custom to him have any grounds for complaint in future. That is how I read your statement. Please correct me if I have read it wrongly. Caveat emptor, I think.

Thank you for your suggestion to me to contact Luis and Mark. I shall do exactly that. I have been remiss. I urge all who are interested in this matter to contact them to hear their side of the story.

By the way, I have used enlargers of all makes and sizes like Omegas and Beselers and Zone 6 and Saunders/LPLs and Homrich and DeVere, including original large format Dursts manufactured by Durst AG, Brixen Italy. Those who know anything about Durst AG knows that this company stands behind its products and that their enlargers are overbuilt to take the hard knocks of the commercial environment. For example, you can turn a twenty-year old CLS 2000 head on its side to make a mural, move the enlarger chassis around while it is on, kick it and it will still keep on working. I have yet to see some of the lesser made enlargers, let alone any Durst, which are so delicate that the mere act of moving them will render them inoperable. Durst built its reputation on the extreme quality of its products and on its incomparable service. Even today, Durst AG will send you manuals for long discontinued products all the way from Brixen, Italy postpaid and for free. If your enlargers are so delicate, you have done a massive disservice to Durst AG whose reputation was built on the excellence of its products. I also wonder how you remanufacture the enlargers to new condition and then have it fail just by the act of moving it? Nobody I know who has ever used a Durst has ever experienced that.

I wonder how you are able to ascertain that it is your client's fault when your enlargers fail just because he moved it or lightning struck the building. I mean, you have not even examined the enlargers on site to ascertain the problem. What makes you so sure that the fault is caused by your client's action? It certainly seems like a rather convenient device. Or is that also another of your condition? But original Dursts are made to be moved. Is this a commentary on your workmanship?

Mr. Jensen rode on the sterling reputation that Durst AG has built up over the years, thus the naming of his company Durst Pro USA which I had explained he was asked to change to Jensen Optical because Durst AG felt it was misleading and incorrect to have that association with him. Please correct me if I am wrong in this. Too many thought, perhaps erroneously, that Durst Pro USA was a North American subsidiary of Durst AG, Brixen, Italy. An email to Dr. Robert Piock of Durst AG will clear this up quickly.

The excuse of not having the time doesn't wash. Not to Mr. Noble who has spent a small fortune on it. How would I like to spend that kind of money and have a non-working component? I should have kept the money in the bank. As I said, such cavalier disregard for a client's urgency and requirement does not bode well. Now that I have your money, I shouldn't pretend to care; I should damn well care because I have his money and RESPONSIBILITY. As I said, that's my business model, not necessarily yours. By the way, Mr. Noble is recovering from Brain Tumour so have a heart, won't you?

Have you ever bought a car, Mr. Jensen? Would you accept the same level of service from a car dealer that you nonchalantly hand out to your clients apparently?

Don't feel bad, Mr. Jensen. Just get things done right and there will be no problems at all. Sorry to light a fire under your ass. It is not pleasant but someone has to do it.

The enlarger failing is too strong a word to use to describe Mr. Noble's enlarger. It developed 'a problem'. My mistake and I am withdrawing the word 'fail'. Let it be known that Mr. Jensen did not describe Mr. Noble's enlarger as 'fail'ing; a certain action of Mr. Noble caused a problem by Mr. Jensen's words. My interpretation and unwitting imputation that it failed and thus became inoperable are incorrect and careless. I apologise for this error. There was no malice intended to Mr. Jensen.

Jensen Durst-pro story
I Have been dealing for the past couple of years with brain cancer. So when I got a relatively decent prognosis in September of 2003 I decided to treat myself to a a fancy 8X10 enlarger I Had I had been using a Zone VI -- the original version at first which really didn’t work, and then the second, which which with some modification could be made to produce acceptable results.

So off I went to see Jens, a two hour drive south of me He showed me an enlarger that would meet my needs wall mounted motorized focus and elevation, and hell there was Chip Hooper in the brochure with the same bloody thing -- good enough for him, it ought to be good enough for me. It had a semi closed loop head guaranteed to b even and consistent and Jens would provide me pin glass to match my existing condit film punch I wrote him a check for $8k on the spot

Week or two later Jens showed up to install it. After I started using it I encountered a few problems. first I realized the light source was so bright that I could only have very short exposure times, stopped way down, and then I smelled burning. When I took the head apart and looked inside, the lining was all blistered and burnt.

I gave Chip Hooper a call and asked him how he was fairing with his enlarger. He told me that after a week he had replaced the light source with an Aristo VC head and had been Happy ever since. I guess ChIp had never mentioned this to Jens-- I think he is rather wealthy from his day job so money is less consequential than it is to me and the rest of us--, so I really can’t blame Jens on this one. It turns out Jens sells most of these enlargers for color applications where they are running off thousand of prints with 3 second exposures my leaving it on long enough for burning etc. was too much So another $2K for an Aristo head later
I had a functioning enlarger... kind of.

The next problem
The lens stage is out of alignment by about one quarter inch for a 16X20 the easel needs to be raised at least 3/4 of an inch on one side
And now Jens, you say that the alignment problem happened when the enlarger was moved? That’s hogwash and you know it! The only movement was when it was slid up the wall 12 inches an operation that was smooth as silk as the three people who did it will attest to.--and now you want to charge me for a problem that has been there since the initial installation? that’s priceless!

The pin glass?
Haven’t seen it -- he did give me some fancy schlott glass with diagonal pins -- my punch is an end punch -- he lent me a diagonal punch needed it back for a large format conference and like a fool I returned it, and now he won’t even send that back for me to use until glass with end pins is available as far as payment, I have an invoice dated 9/19/03 marked paid in full and signed by Jens.

He has promised to come fix the enlarger on at least a dozed occasions but never shows up Has promised to send things they never show up he says they are in stock. If you call He Is always out to lunch -- He must weigh 500 pounds by now!
To add insult to injury, Jens had told me that all of the Condit punches were the same and serial numbers were irrelevant, so last week I threw $100.00 at a diagonal Condit punch on ebay -- no where close to matching

And Yes Jens, I agree, A public forum is no place to have to address this issue, but what other option is there? I haven’t heard from you in months. you won’t respond to phone calls, emails or letters. I figured you must just be playing the odds hoping i’ll kickoff soon so you won’t have to live up to your responsibilities. The last thing I wanted was a cyber pissing match particularly since I’m now down to one hand and half a brain.
Mark.

First an answer to Mr. Izaack; Your mail is again filled with unsubstantiated accusations, with wrong data, assumptions and deliberate exaggerations.
You know where to get hold of me.

Why do you not contact me to get data substantiated before you publicize?

Why do you not research your data, and contact your sources BEFORE you bring your long monologues to market?

What kind of small business do you run?

Where is your business located?

If you are really serious about policing the large format market I hail your initiative, however for your initiative to be anymore than a display, of an “upset stomach” , on someone’s else’s expense, I must see continuity and I must see you paying more attention to establishing the truth, facts, before you publish.
And first and foremost I must know that I can trust you. I must know who I am dealing with.

Who is hiding behind “Izaak” ?

For all I know “Izaak” could be my competitor, or a lover of digital inkjet printers or for that matter an inmate in a correction facility.

Therefore I ask you to reveal your identity, your name address and phone number would be most appreciated.

You know where to get hold of me, you know my name my address, my phone, and if you are do not dare to post your information in public then by all means use one of the other options.

Then a reply to Mark Noble:

Mark is it safe to say that you took delivery of the enlarger and the parts and that you expressed satisfaction before I left after installation?
Is it safe to say that you paid 50% of $8,185.00 up front and the remaining 50% after satisfactory installation?
Is it safe to say that the enlarger was in alignment before I left and that we tested the alignment with a laser tool before I left? And that we tested motors and focusing etc. before I left.

Is it safe to say that You and a friend moved the wall mounted enlarger some time after I left.

Is it safe to say that I did come to your location to install an upgrade for the motors, and to look at the alignment issue when you asked me to? And that I did not charge for that visit?

Is it safe to say that during that visit I realized that the entire enlarger would have to be taken down from the wall, taken apart, and have the counterweight removed and reattached to fix the problem – and that neither I nor you had time for that operation on that particular day?.

Is it safe to say that we have tried to find a time that would fit us both, and that we have not succeeded so far. And also that you also have (twice) canceled an appointment, once because of a vacation to NM and once for a reason I no longer remember.

(It is not your lens stage that is out of alignment!. (If it were the lens stage you would not be able to compensate by lifting one side of your easel. If it was then lens stage that was out of alignment and you lifted one end of the easel you would increase the problem) It is the entire enlarger, and in your case the head, that is out of alignment. As I have explained you over the phone it appears to me that one chain has moved slightly to one side on the counter weight. I believe this to have happened during the move, I cannot know for sure of course, but since the problem was not there at installation I naturally must assume that “something” has happened after I left after the installation.)

I do not have any intention of charging you for driving up and fixing the problem. I apologize for not having had time so far, I have been to busy surviving in the environment we are in. Anyone here, or close friends, can testify to the fact that I work 12-14 hours a day and that I am here 7 days a week.

When a person invests in an enlarger they buy a highly specialized tool. In the first years I spent a lot of time for free helping customers getting to know the enlarger and to be able to use it. Due to the competition and the demand on my time I cannot any longer follow each buyer in detail.

If someone buys a 2000 watt enlarger and realize that the light is to strong it would be natural to call me and discuss this issue.
When that does not happen, the user does not call me, I cannot be expected to be aware of the problem. When the user thereafter decides to design a fix to cut down the light without consulting the manufacturer, in this case me, then I am unable to give any advice as how to solve the problem of to much light.

It is not correct to block the light with white paper, with tracing paper with pencil smearing to further create density or with any other “third party” type of light blocker and then compensate for the less light by running the head for 50-60 second exposures, or to leave it on for minutes while focusing.
The head was not built for that kind of treatment.
It would be just like driving a car in first speed from Seattle to Oregon, it is not built for that kind of treatment and will overheat.

If someone elects to treat a 2000 watt Color Dichro head like an Aristo Cold light head something is bound to happen.

The Aristo Cold light head is as the name implies a “Cold” light source. The designation “Cold” does in any way relate to the quality of the light rays but rather to the fact that the head uses a light source (Neon) which does not emit as much heat (infrared) as halogen lamps.

When I saw your “new setup” I offered you to install a digital light modifier free of charge. This modifier would allow you to reduce the light output step less.

You declined. (The parts alone exceeds $600.00)

You have elected to install an Aristo Cold Light inside an otherwise perfect light source. You have elected to do away with the entire set of Dichroic filters and the Digital readout of the exact filtration!!!
Money must not be an issue for you - unless of course you have to pay for service!!

All the parts I had spent hours building and balancing for absolute evenness were thrown into a box of thrash last I visited!!!

Parts worth several thousand dollars, (the ZBE CC-reader used for Digital readout of filtration cost me $995.00, the filters cost me approx. $467.00 each (x3) the mixing box another 450.00,) were in a thrash bin.
Now start adding that up, include the brand new chassis, the brand new motor drive, the brand new camera, the negative holder in New condition, the new $800 oversized bellows and the full day installation and delivery and then answer me;

Do you think that you got service and material worth the price you paid?

What is it that makes you want to force me to come to you for free to fix a problem that did not exist after installation?
If you decided that you can no longer wait for a free visit why did you not just order a paid service visit?
What prompted you to post a statement to the fact that you had paid 9K and never had received delivery?
What prompted you to post a statement to the fact that you prepaid the price of 8,000 when in fact you paid 50% up front and 50% after delivery (satisfactory delivery)

What do you think you will gain from hanging me out in this manner on the internet?

If you can no longer wait for me I can suggest that you have your friends come back and help you fix the problem. Or book a service visit, we do have technicians!

This is what you and your friends will have to do:

1. Take the color head off the enlarger.
2. Take the camera off the enlarger.
3. Remove the enlarger from the wall.
4. Slide out the counter weight.
5. Move the left chain, when facing the enlarger, back into the recess in the counterweight where it belongs.
6. Slide the counter weight back into the column
7. Reverse all the above steps 1 through 4.

Of course this advice is given without any responsibility as I cannot be 100% sure that the chain is off it's recess.

PS:

About the condit punch story. I have never – repeat never – told anyone that Condit built punches were all the same. Rather on the opposite, our sales pitch for OUR punches is that OUR punches does not need serial numbers as they are all the same. It is public knowledge that condit punches differed and that only Condit could supply parts and glass for the same reason.
This you can get confirmed from anyone having bought a punch from me or from our sales material.

Finally, you probably will not believe this but never the less I will tell you that on the December 1st productions meeting we scheduled you for a free service visit on December 29 or 30 as those were my Christmas holidays – if you doubt you can call my secretary and get it confirmed, or the other customer, in Seattle, whom I told about the visit and promised a visit at the same time.

Now, after Izaak got you exicted, how do we defuse the situation, do you even want such a dishonest and unreliable person as my self to visit you at this stage?

Do I dare to visit you? What will be the next I get accused off?

Jensen

This thread is not about me. It has been and will always be about you and your business practices. The facts of your relationship with your clients won't change one whit even if I were the malingering monkeyman of the moldavian mountains of mars.

We can only accept the facts presented on this thread at face value. While you seem willing to allow me to accept those ringing endorsements as facts, you disallow me the same privilege to accept complaints about your enterprise also as facts. One has to be consistent in one's action.

I contacted Mr. Noble only upon your behest for clarification. Now that Mr. Noble "who is an extremely nice person and would not post an untruth" has replied with his FACTS, although not to your satisfaction, you try to shove the blame on me. It is YOU who got Mr. Noble all excited, not me. I did not take his money. Be responsible for your own actions. It is not about me. It is about YOU. You asked me to get the facts, I got them and guess who is crying now?

It appears that you are aware that Mr. Noble allegedly threw all your parts worth thousands of dollars in the thrash [sic] that you spent "hours balancing for absolute eveness", it did not seem to bother you nor were you at all concerned then. But here you are bringing it up. If you had really cared, it is my opinion that the point in time to protest was then, not now. It does seem rather tit for tat now, doesn't it?

You talk about your offering Mr. Noble a $600 light modifier. Let us get this straight: in your own admission, Mr. Noble declined. Seems as if it is the equivalent of not offering anything. Mr. Noble did not gain anything from you so you are not out of the pocket of $600.00. Mr. Noble did not want a freebie for something which should have been working right to begin with.

And this brings me to the gist of the problem: all these multi-kilo buck parts, this $600.00 digital light modifier do act rather like very expensive Band-aids to me. That is to say, they won't be necessary at all if you had sold Mr. Noble an appropriate product to begin with. Pardon my incredulity but you sold Mr. Noble a 2000W enlarging head? A TWO THOUSAND WATT enlarging head, gentle readers! There is a 2000W switch on the Durst CLS 2000 head which I had access to and the ONLY time it was ever turned on was when we young whelpings were curious to see what 2000W looked like and felt like. 2000W is an incredible amount of light and is hardly usable in a hobbyist situation like Mr. Noble's unless his hobby is enlarging multi-masked bullet-proof negatives mural sized. Even then, the 2000W CLS 2000 head did not start smoking and burning liners in 60 seconds. Not even if you left it on for two minutes. It makes me wonder about your customer service. Do you routinely offer 2000W enlargers to anyone who walks in with a check without first ascertaining if one is suitable for his application? And then offer multi-kilo buck 'solutions' after that, yes, even if they were ostensibly for free? Talk about selling a sledgehammer to someone who comes in looking for a flyswatter. By the way, the ZBE CC Reader is available off Ebay for about $150.00 when it comes up for auction.

So on Dec 1st, you scheduled a service call for Mr. Noble on Dec 29th or 30th. Sounds like news to Mr. Noble. You asked that he check with your secretary. Let's not be laughably naive here; what do you think your secretary will say? Is this the very same secretary who tells Mr. Noble that you are always out to lunch and cannot seem to take a message for you to call Mr. Noble back? It seems to be that Mr. Noble's email is as easily available to you as, you pointed out, it is to me; why did you not use it? What good is it telling us now that you had scheduled a service call after the fact? Because anybody could say that. It also surprises me that your customer in Seattle is made aware of this while Mr. Noble obviously hasn't been so apprised. Why not? You could also have called Mr. Noble or snail mailed him. Or did you expect Mr. Noble to be clairvoyant? Is it safe to say that the possibility exists that you appear to have made this 'fact' up on the spot?

The fact remains that despite how you described yourself {"dishonest and unreliable", your words, not mine} above, you still OWE Mr. Noble a duty of care because you have taken $9000.00 of his money for a product which is now faulty. It does not absolve yourself of this responsibility to Mr. Noble. He is your client, regardless of whether he paid in full before installation or 50% before, 50% after. He still paid you in full. He does not owe you a dime.

It seems to me Mr. Noble is damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't. If he doesn't put this up in public, he cannot get a response from nor get through to you. If he does put this up in public and not to your liking, he doesn't get a service call from you. Seems as if Mr. Noble won't be getting service either way unless he pays for it. How utterly convenient.

N.B. I did hear from Mr. De Santos. He has asked that I not post his comments publicly and I shall respect his wish. Suffice it to say that there appears to be an enlarger for sale in Texas and that if he is to start all over, he will begin looking with another company. Oh, I am a lover of digital inkjet printing but surely that is not germane to the discussion at hand which is about your business practices.

So you did not have the courage to introduce your self to the Forum. I and others expected that.

It must also be clear to everybody that by denying us your identity that you have no intentions what so ever of policing the business, had you had honorable intentions you would have been proud to produce your self.

I petty you and challenge you to show your identity.!!!

Are you the same “Izaack” appearing also on other forums, and is being described as being unfriendly and frustrated?.

I have put all your remarks in ( ) and answered them one by one:

(This thread is not about me. It has been and will always be about you and

your business practices. The facts of your relationship with your clients

won't change one whit even if I were the malingering monkeyman of the

moldavian mountains of mars.)

YOU ARE WRONG, that is exactly what this thread has become – about you – and that is the sole reason for your participation and also why I now retire from the same Forum. My life/time is too valuable to be used as a lightening rod for your frustrations.

I will answer your allegations one last time just to show the other readers how wrong you are.

I will explain my reasons for withdrawing in an email directly to the participants in this thread.

(We can only accept the facts presented on this thread at face value. While

you seem willing to allow me to accept those ringing endorsements as

facts, you disallow me the same privilege to accept complaints about your

enterprise also as facts. One has to be consistent in one's action.)

I find it reasonable that attacks, whether on me or someone else, be reasonable researched

before they are posted in public. When a person makes a claim for wrong doing against another person or entity there is a potential chance that the allegation may be wrong or fueled by ill intentions or just based bad memory.

A customer that buys a big expensive machine or tool, and later finds that using it is beyond this individuals comprehension, may end up being frustrated and wanting to blame “someone”.

A person that publicly posts a good remark about another person may have a purpose for doing so – however, since a truly good statement rarely can cause any damage or hurt it need not be subject to the same scrutiny as accusations and complaints.

(I contacted Mr. Noble only upon your behest for clarification. Now that

Mr. Noble "who is an extremely nice person and would not post an

untruth" has replied with his FACTS, although not to your satisfaction,

you try to shove the blame on me. It is YOU who got Mr. Noble all

excited, not me. I did not take his money. Be responsible for your own

actions. It is not about me. It is about YOU. You asked me to get the

facts, I got them and guess who is crying now?)

Did you contact mark Noble directly or did you “contact him” through the Forum? I do not think you contacted him directly.

You did not really get the facts, did you? You got an answer, but part of it were not true and part of it were based on bad memory, possible all based on bad memory.

Now see, had you first contacted Mark Noble got his story and then contacted me and got my story and finally weighed the differences against each other you would end up with a result that would not fuel your frustration and would not make a subject for this forum.

I petty you and challenge you to show your identity.!!!

(It appears that you are aware that Mr. Noble allegedly threw all your

parts worth thousands of dollars in the thrash [sic] that you spent

"hours balancing for absolute eveness", it did not seem to bother you

nor were you at all concerned then. But here you are bringing it up. If

you had really cared, it is my opinion that the point in time to protest

was then, not now. It does seem rather tit for tat now, doesn't it?)

Of course it bothered me. Possible it bothered me so much that I lost a bit of interest in that machine, and down graded the importance of the other issue. I did protest to Mark. I responded by offering to install an UPGRADE for free.

I cannot control how owners decide to treat their investment.

I have delivered 40,000 dollar machines to photographers only to come back a few weeks later, for service, to see that the machine had been modified with a hack saw, I have seen water pipe run through the enlarger to hang the remote on, and holes drilled in the three $800.00 Dichroic filters to increase the light output.!!!!

(You talk about your offering Mr. Noble a $600 light modifier. Let us get

this straight: in your own admission, Mr. Noble declined. Seems as if it

is the equivalent of not offering anything. Mr. Noble did not gain

anything from you so you are not out of the pocket of $600.00. Mr. Noble

did not want a freebie for something which should have been working right

to begin with.)

The machine worked right when Mark took delivery. Otherwise he would not have signed off for it or paid the remaining payment.

You know we have an 8-day unrestricted right of return clause, and we have a 5 year warranty on all equipment.

We have sold about 15 units of that same enlarger. We have installed light reducers in 3. We have one in the show room right now. If you are interested we will be glad to pay for an airline ticket for you, from anywhere in the US, to come and inspect that machine or any other in our show room. That way you can come and see for your self.

This offer is open for anyone on this Forum. Free airline ticket, no obligations of any kind.

(And this brings me to the gist of the problem: all these multi-kilo buck

parts, this $600.00 digital light modifier do act rather like very

expensive Band-aids to me. That is to say, they won't be necessary at

all if you had sold Mr. Noble an appropriate product to begin with.

Pardon my incredulity but you sold Mr. Noble a 2000W enlarging head? A

TWO THOUSAND WATT enlarging head, gentle readers! There is a 2000W switch

on the Durst CLS 2000 head which I had access to and the ONLY time it was

ever turned on was when we young whelpings were curious to see what 2000W

looked like and felt like. 2000W is an incredible amount of light and is

hardly usable in a hobbyist situation like Mr. Noble's unless his hobby

is enlarging multi-masked bullet-proof negatives mural sized. Even then,

the 2000W CLS 2000 head did not start smoking and burning liners in 60

seconds. Not even if you left it on for two minutes. It makes me wonder

about your customer service. Do you routinely offer 2000W enlargers to

anyone who walks in with a check without first ascertaining if one is

suitable for his application? And then offer multi-kilo buck 'solutions'

after that, yes, even if they were ostensibly for free? Talk about

selling a sledgehammer to someone who comes in looking for a flyswatter.

By the way, the ZBE CC Reader is available off Ebay for about $150.00 when

it comes up for auction.)

On one hand you ridicule the idea of installing a light reduction option, on the other hand you do hail the quality of Durst enlargers with a switch!!!

It is quite apparent that neither Mark, or his wife which accompanied him, nor my self are half as smart as you are, or have a fraction of the experience that you have!!!

Then, this is the first time you have come close to being just a little correct – You are right I did NOT grill Mark about his use, I did not question Marks decision because I viewed Mark as a very knowledgeable photographer. I always assume that my customers know more than I. I give them the info and let them make the decision.

Secondly, I always give customers different options.

Third, a Durst CLS2000 head costs about three times the amount of Marks entire enlarger.

Fourth, YOU DO NOT KNOW what you are talking about – because you have not talked to anyone – you have not talked to Mark! You just spin and make assumptions on every ones behalf, without knowing the facts – You see Marks enlarger is NOT a Durst! Had you talked to Mark or my self you would have known.

(So on Dec 1st, you scheduled a service call for Mr. Noble on Dec 29th or

30th. Sounds like news to Mr. Noble. You asked that he check with your

secretary. Let's not be laughably naive here; what do you think your

secretary will say? Is this the very same secretary who tells Mr. Noble

that you are always out to lunch and cannot seem to take a message for you

to call Mr. Noble back? It seems to be that Mr. Noble's email is as

easily available to you as, you pointed out, it is to me; why did you not

use it? What good is it telling us now that you had scheduled a service

call after the fact? Because anybody could say that. It also surprises

me that your customer in Seattle is made aware of this while Mr. Noble

obviously hasn't been so apprised. Why not? You could also have called

Mr. Noble or snail mailed him. Or did you expect Mr. Noble to be

clairvoyant? Is it safe to say that the possibility exists that you appear

to have made this 'fact' up on the spot?)

My customer in Seattle was told that he would have to expect a visit EITHER on the 29 or the 30th because I would let Mark Noble choose first. I made sure not to visit mark on a Tuesday.

I did not let Mark know about the coming visit, till this week, because my other customer had not confirmed finally his availability and did not do so till yesterday. I would not alert Mark again just to have to cancel if the other meeting was canceled. I had canceled 6-8 times before and was embarrassed by the many cancellations.

(The fact remains that despite how you described yourself {"dishonest and

unreliable", your words, not mine} above, you still OWE Mr. Noble a duty

of care because you have taken $9000.00 of his money for a product which

is now faulty. It does not absolve yourself of this responsibility to Mr.

Noble. He is your client, regardless of whether he paid in full before

installation or 50% before, 50% after. He still paid you in full. He does

not owe you a dime.)

See that is exactly why I chose to respond to this thread in the first instance; I do not owe Mark anything. I have offered him to come by, as a favor, as a friend and to fix his problem for him at no charge.

Had YOU not posted Marks “draft” claiming I had taken $9,000 and not delivered I would not have answered. I tried to avoid questioning Marks posting.

Mark paid AFTER delivery indicating satisfaction with the delivery.

You did not even bother to get the amount right!

You are so absorbed in your own righteous self-indulgent frustration that you do not stop and rethink when you realize that Mark paid AFTER installation – something he would not have done had he not been satisfied.

He even writes in his own input that he did receive all parts!!!

I feel bad about the many cancellations and would have been there earlier had I been able to. There exists situations where a person is unable to do what he wants to. I did not go on that one week vacation with my daughter that I had promised her - after she had not seen me for 9 years – I canceled because I was unable to leave the business. I sent a friend out shopping with my son on his last day of his stay – I could not leave the business – I see him once a year.

I had 150 to 200 (depending on how you define a travel day) travel days last year. Traveled 100,000 miles in the last 5 months.

My secretary is upset that you question her integrity – you have no right to do that. You seem not to bother about whom you call a liar!

(It seems to me Mr. Noble is damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't.

If he doesn't put this up in public, he cannot get a response from nor

get through to you. If he does put this up in public and not to your

liking, he doesn't get a service call from you. Seems as if Mr. Noble

won't be getting service either way unless he pays for it. How utterly

convenient.)

Again you twist and turn the fact to your liking – to suit your frustration.

Marks posting will and have had no influence on what I choose to do what so ever. Mark did not gain anything other than possible making the opening remarks a bit forced when I get there to fix his problem.

(N.B. I did hear from Mr. De Santos. He has asked that I not post his

comments publicly and I shall respect his wish. Suffice it to say that

there appears to be an enlarger for sale in Texas and that if he is to

start all over, he will begin looking with another company. Oh, I am a

lover of digital inkjet printing but surely that is not germane to the

discussion at hand which is about your business practices.)

So "Izaack" – is there one for sale or not? Things like that does not “appear to be” they either “are” or “are not”.

You see we have talked to De Santos also, and we know exactly what Mr. DeSantos situation is and why – because WE ASKED and HE TOLD us.

Dr. DeSantos told us that while waiting for the parts from me he had started using an outside supplier for his prints, and that he found this solution far more convenient than printing his own prints. Dr. DeSantos told us that he had never been working in a darkroom before in his life.

He also told us that he found printing overly laborious and complicated, and that the big machine confused him.

He also told us that he had no intentions of selling, or returning the enlarger – yes I offered him to do just that – returning it – because he had built his entire Darkroom around the enlarger.

Dr. DeSantos is a well known surgeon in Texas and enjoys photography as a hobby. Doctor DeSantos built him self a very elaborate and high-class gallery, with own darkroom, and very fast became very busy, so busy that he had his son finish the installation of the enlarger.

Dr. DeSantos told us that the real reason he was upset about the late delivery of the parts for his enlarger was that it looked unfinished during the opening of the Gallery.

Now see – that is facts – that can be documented, anyone wanting it only need to ask.

Not once have you provided facts!!!!

I think it now must be evident to everybody that you are a phony.

It must be clear to everybody that your allegations have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with FACTS.

It now must be evident to everybody that the entire purpose of twisting and distorting unknowing peoples bad memory is your own desire to vent frustration.

It must also be clear to everybody that by denying us your identity that you have no intentions what so ever of policing the business.

Had you had honorable intentions you would have been proud to produce your self.

I petty you and challenge you to show your identity, to describe your business and your experience.!!!

This was the last minute I spent on you Sir, until you have the courage to tell us who you are.

Jensen