If the negative is the score and the print the performance....

... or another analogy. ... "It's a great restaurant, except the chef doesn't know how to cook".

He may not know how to cook something you like to eat, but that doesn't mean he can't cook something I like to eat, regardless of how it looks. I admit that I prefer to eat things that look good, but I'd rather eat than starve.

The printer is an artist too. That means his or her vision affects the way your print comes out. As a photographer you know how the final image must look and you try to convey that to your printer. I had a master printer-lady in Albuquerque who could take a telephone description and make my print exactly the way I meant. It must have been some kind of a Vulcan mind-meld. I also had a master printer in Japan who did a beautiful job, but everything came out looking like a platinum/palladium print, because that was his specialty. Now Kubo-san is more of a master printer than I will ever be, but it was my responsibility to reprint those images to be the way I meant them (for better or worse).

There is a video and book, both titled "Silver Footprint", about the master printer Robin Bell. His printings are varied in technique to match the photographer's vision, yet all are outstanding prints.
There are some choices in the photography process where you may wish to exercise your creativity. For street photographers, its probably the "capture"[replace with your favorite term]. For them, the printing can be done by others such as Robin Bell. For some, including myself, creativity is in the darkroom. If I can capture the information needed onto the negative, I can then exercise my creativity and craftsmanship while making the print. One might say that Ansel was a complete photographer since he exercised his creativity in all aspects of the process.

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Originally Posted by Doug Howk

One might say that Ansel was a complete photographer since he exercised his creativity in all aspects of the process.

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One might also distill that sentiment into AA's own words, nothing worse than a sharp picture of a fuzzy concept.

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Originally Posted by Drew Wiley

There are people who specialize in collecting poor prints. Then they archive them where they belong - in the landfill ! A poor print of a "good image" is not a good
image - the good image doesn't exist yet, not if you have to fill in with your imagination what is allegedly good about it.

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I archive all my 'poor' prints by tearing them into shreds and storing them in the landfill for posterior. (BTW, my wife cannot stand to watch this process.)

Ansel used an imperfect analogy borrowed from his background as a musician. The blunt truth is more like this:

"The negative is the subject matter and the "print" is actually THE photograph."

As a way of organising the mind on the subject of photographs of photographs of photographs...., I use the terms primary, secondary, tertiary, ....

The processed camera negative is the primary photograph of the real-world subject matter in front of the camera.

This negative then in turn becomes subject matter for the process of re-photographing it using paper-backed photographic emulsion.

The paper-backed photograph that results is commonly called a "print" but in truth it really is a genuine photograph. Furthermore it is a primary photograph of the camera negative and, reaching further back, it is a secondary photograph of the original real-world scene.

If one were to re-photograph the print (sic) onto film to produce a copy negative then that negative would be a tertiary photograph of the original real-world scene; and so on.

I reckon by eliminating music analogies and eliminating "print" talk from successive stages of photographic production one gets a much clearer view of what is really going on.

Wow, Maris. That is no half baked treatise. It truly seems fully baked! Kind of like looking in a mirror, reflecting a mirror, reflecting a mirror… to get to the truth of one's being. Far out man. Thanks for the clarification, though I may need to get fully baked to properly comprehend it! ;)

Jeez AA's statement is about as simple and clear as one can get. You guys have a lot of free time on your hands?

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Originally Posted by Kirk Gittings

Jeez AA's statement is about as simple and clear as one can get. You guys have a lot of free time on your hands?

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Found out!:eek: ...Mr. 8,137 posts, pot calling the kettle black.:D