No 10895 has just been sold:
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/RicAA...jq/s-l1600.jpg
https://www.ebay.de/itm/Schiebekaste...rdt=true&rt=nc
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No 10895 has just been sold:
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/RicAA...jq/s-l1600.jpg
https://www.ebay.de/itm/Schiebekaste...rdt=true&rt=nc
One more... #27564.
Bought it a few days ago, I hope it arrives on Monday.
Seller don´t describe anything. Pinion missing and a dent in the brass.
I have no idea of the focal length...
In photo 3 seems, in Roman numerals, at the very edge, a VI.
What is your opinion??
I'll wait until you can measure the lens diameter before adding.
Hermagis #27564
Total length with hood 140mm.
Diameter of the lenses 61mm.
Achromat: Hermagis Opticien a Paris.... (52-80-92)
Rear Flint: Hermagis a Paris.... (82-56-92)
#7 210mm F4 1892 ???
As far as I can see it could be the serie 1 no. 7 you mention - but also the extra rapid no. 8 with focal length 150mm or the no.8 serie 2 (180mm).
All have the 61mm lenses!
Hi Steven,
the lens in the camera focus on infinity at 210mm, measured from WHS.
Entrance of the pupil +/- 53mm.
This would give us a 210mm f3,96 = f4.
If I measure from the rear element, focus to infinity at +/-152mm and f2.8. (Measured from the outer face of the crown).
I think it's a 210 f4. What do you think??
And sorry for my ignorance...
How exactly I measure the back focus...
From the center of the two rear elements or from the outer face of the crown or ... ???
I thought the data might be out of a catalogue, rather than actual measurement! Some of the other series were as fast as F2.7.
Adding now. The scratched roman VI is a common thread matching device. There should be a matching "VI" inside the barrel.
Right...
There is a Roman numeral VI in the hood and in the two lens houses.
There is also an VIIII in the two pieces of the barrel.
Maybe I'm wrong and the Roman number is not a VI and is an IX.Quote:
Originally Posted by C_M
This would coincide with the numbering of the barrel VIIII .... ??
No new dates - or serial numbers - but certainly some new insights into Hermagis and Maugey Aine!
This completed listing has surely been seen by most correspondents in this thread!
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-L...rdt=true&rt=nc
Apart from the WHS etc, there appear to be 3 sets of replacement (?) large Petzval lenses from Hermagis/Maugey with original packing and text labels. The writing looks almost identical to what we see on lens edges!
The date is 1856, which is the same as the patent application in France for the "Transformation" (Double ended!) version.
Both the normal Hermagis and the double - ended have a 35cm focal length which look like a match for these lens sets!
I cannot see any reason why these 3 loose lenses should have been sent to the person/organisation. Perhaps part of a patent application in the USA or a purchase by an American lens company to meet an order for some large sized Petzvals. An order which got cancelled and the brasswork never finshed?
I hope the winner will give details of the "purchase" - I would guess that there is no serial number on lens edges?
I havn't given myself a headache with trying to recognise/translate the french text apart from Maugey and Hermagis, but perhaps there is a clue hidden there?
There is certainly another clue in the visiting card in the lot for a G.Cromer. A google gives this interesting result!
https://collections.eastman.org/obje...C903F642286BF2
Nope, I missed it !
I have 2 or 3 Maugey lens cells with achromats (81 and 95mm diameter) and I don't believe they had Hermagis on them but I'll have to look again.
Good find !
Cheers,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Tribe
Anyone know who ended up winning the lot of Hermagis glass? I have a No.3 Petzval that is missing an element in the rear group.
I have once had success in contacting an ebay winner through contact with the seller. I don't think this is against ebay rules.
But you have to convince the seller that your approach - with a wish to have a mail forwarded on to the winner by the seller - is completely ethical.
You could always use this thread as a reference and a wish "to add to the knowledge of the house of Hermagis"!
Oh, I should add the serial number. No. 3 'Normal' Petzval 13,981. Though the edge of the front achromat is marked 1888. Perhaps that second 8 should be a 6. Mis-marked possibly.
Adding details of my Hermagis Anastigmat 4,5/500mm #122229 for the database before selling it. Iris diaphragm.
According to Corrado it is a: SYMMETRICAL LENS 4 LENSES IN 4 GROUPS NOT GLUED AS THE BUSCH OMNAR.
RECOMMENDED FOR PORTRAIT. COVER 72 ° at f/14. 1925-1926 Anastigmat Serie D.
Attachment 197875
Attachment 197874
Attachment 197876
Interesting example of a pre-serial number Hermagis stereo pair with both cup aperture inserts present.
Eidoscope F/5 No 3
Serial No. 57036
Year 17 (1917)
I have two "Trousse(s) Aplanastigmatique(s)" from around 1930:
N°7 for 13x18: n°118486
N°5 for 18x24: n°275717
(Extra rapide) Objectif Portrait Serie II No.1 390mm f3.5 No. 272583
No writing on the sides of all elements except X by pencil on the front doublet.
Black enamel finish on brass with no SOM Berthiot engraving, so it was made circa 1934 I suppose.
Just to present a nice example of an early Objectifs a transformations (convertible) or rather the lens edge writing on the front achromat.
This is before date/year writing was started, but after 1857 when serial numbers were introduced.
This is the smallest Petzval/Landscape lens made by Hermagis:
Size no. 6
Lens diameter 44mm
Focal length 12cm made for Medaillons (smaller than CdeVs) - Landscape achromat up to 11x15cm format
These convertibles are very complex with their many brass sections. This one has a later conversion to WHS, but the original structure is unchanged. The barrel unscrews into 2 halves, with both halves having a section of the focusing track. There is a cute solution to make sure that the two tracks will always be aligned when screwed in - no matter how much the threads wear. There is a tiny raised steel tap 0.5mm on one half, whilst the other half has a channel, which the tap can enter. It stops up against a barrier which coincides with the tracks being opposite each other. Strangely enough, this tiny convertible only has a track on a single half of the barrel - so the ingenious system is completely superfluous for this lens.
Added to the database.
There have been some additions to the list (post #68) in the last few months.
Nothing that adds to our “cumulative knowledge and guesswork”, but also nothing that contradicts start of serial numbers and pencil dating either!
9293 is a no. 5 convertible which does have pinion track on both halves of the split barrel - unlike the no.6 mentioned in post #120.
I have added another pre-serial number small Petzval to the list on post #68. I have called it VVVV. It is the same size as YYYY.
It would be fantastic IF the mystery numbers were the same on corresponding lenses!
UnfortunateLy, they don’t match - but they have an obvious relation to each other.
YYYY has 209 - 44 on the achromat and 346 - 17 on the rear cell.
VVVV has 346 - 45 on the achromat and 343 - 18 on the rear cell.
I can’t see an obvious link apart from the 44/45 and 17/18. And the first number cannot be a lot number (346/346) - unless, of course,both lenses were stored (perhaps paired) at location 346.
I have made some changes in summary serial no. list in post #68 and removed content of #20 so there is only one list available.
The, new to me, Medallion Petzval VVVV has a unique internal washer stop system. The internal barrel has a screw thread which also functions as a mounting screw ring for the two lenses and metal spacer in the rear cell
A new clue has turned up about the meaning of the edge lens numbers. I have received 11290 today and the unusually fresh number on the rear lens shows (apart from the Hermagis a Paris) “696 Bleu”.
I can’t think of any logical explanation for the use of blue - other than identifying a specific physical location in a lens storage facility?
This lens also has a good example of the use of blackened paper to stop the inevitable light leaks around the track set into the barrel. The area showing where the original paper was is obvious and the quantity of edge light leaks from one of the track sides is quite substantial. The papers (two pieces) were glued in after the baffle had been installed, but before the barrel interior had been blackened
Another pre-serial number small Petzval!
Unfortunately, a bit battered because of an impatient previous owner with inappropriate tools.
This is a second example of an internal stop system which attaches to the rear cell.
This has what we usually call assembley identification roman numerals -I II III IV V etc. The threads which (in the era of hand cut threads) meshed easiest were marked with an identical Roman numeral.
The extreme high marking numbers of the two (16/XVI and 28/XXVIII) perhaps suggest that there may be some sort of batch numbering/identification as well.
Photo 1 Hermagis Petzval rear cell - both types with/without internal disc stops.
Photo 2 Both examples of internal disc stops.
I found this thread when searching for information on a Hermagis lens I acquired recently, so I'll post the details to add to the database. The lens is an Extra Rapid Special no. 4, serial number 40717. Pencil edge inscriptions - front element "Hermagis Opticien a Paris E.R No.4 (129-186-05)", rear element "ER No 4 (129-505-05) Hermagis a Paris"
I'd sort of expected it to be a Petzval design, but it appears to be a triplet - I can't see any evidence of cementing on the front element. I got the lens with some damage and partly dis-assembled, if I've put it together correctly the focal length is about 96mm assuming the slot for the Waterhouse stops is somewhere near the nodal point. Rear focus distance is about 68mm.
I think this is a large lens (lens diameter 8cm or 8.6cm) which doesn’t match the focal length of 96mm!
There is only one ER no. 4 around in the 1900/1910 period and this is in the table below. Note that Hermagis used the reverse sizing scale - 1 is the largest lens and 10 is the smallest.
I would guess that there is a problem with the mix of lenses you have! If you have 4 separate Lenses, then 2 of the lenses are probably the two halves of the front achromat which has cleaned and now ready for reglueing! I have seen a couple of lenses were this has been the case.
If there are only 3 lenses - and none are an achromat- then you don’t have the complete optical set for the no. 4 Petzval, unfortunately.
I've re-examined the front element and there is evidence of a cement line, so it's likely to be an achromat. Very faint, missed it first time round, I was more focussed on sorting out the rear elements and removing the dent from the rear of the barrel.
However it's a small lens. The diameter is 44mm - which would make it a number 10 according to the table. I'll try and get some pictures tomorrow.
The no. 10 was very popular and was used on early sliding box cameras. I have 3 of these 44mm Petzvals - but these are the convertible and plain Petzval versions - not the ER a type you have.
You can compare the front achromat from serial number 10,376 with yours! Note that the first number is next to yours. This supports the idea that the numbers refer to physical stock locations of finished lenses. Yes, this one does have edge balsam decay!
I did expect some balsam decay, but as my lens is only 118 years old then it's a youngster :-) Looking at your numbers, is the first digit a 1 or an open bracket? (the preceding inscription isn't visible).
Photos attached. The lens is the front achromat.
Attachment 242008 Attachment 242006 Attachment 242007 Attachment 242009
Yes, the first mark is a bracket.
The 05 within the bracket is the year of assembly - 1905. And mine is from 1883.
Thank you for all your help, Steven. I'm still puzzled why my lens is badged as a No.4 - but hey, time to stop worrying and see if I can get an image from it. That may take a while!
And we have another extra rapid Petzval Series II from the first decade of the 20th Century. This time the longest version no.1.
This has 4” lenses and is a genuine 8x10” Petzval!
This is a Spanish based survivor from a known studio and it formed a pair with a similarly huge Voigtlander (Cooke triplet licensed) of exactly the same year, that a correspondent has acquired.
Added to the serial number/year made register.
As i am waiting for a 1930s folding camera to arrive, with a Hermagis lens nr.242764 that i guess is from around 1935(?) just after Som Berthiot took over (though no Berthiot on the lens), i was looking around for more information about Hermagis.
All that about the early Hermagis days gets too confusing. We can find even on later Hermagis catalogues 1845 or 1855, or...1854....
From the folowing clip of an 1856 (information gathered in 1855) almanac, both Derogy and Hermagis appear to work together as Wallet's successors.
So based on that and other information we can find around, if i have to guess, i would say that Hermagis went alone in 1855.
Any other thoughts?
Attachment 245120
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bp...hermagis.zoom#
Hello,
3 more lenses here.
- Hermagis N°38621, Objectif Portrait N°7, 129-186-04 writen on the lens (Missing rear ellement unfortunatly)
- Hermagis N°162748, Objectif Portrait Serie I N°4 bis, 29 writen on the lens
- Hermagis N°244190, Anastigmat Hellor 500mm F5.7, no marking on the lens. If someone know the production date of this lens, i'm interested. According to P&P (Dossier N°5, Page 24), the 500 5,7 only appeared on the 1933 catalogue. And they said 220000 is 1934. So It's probably something like 1935-1936, after the fusion with Berthiot, which will explain the abscence of marking on the lens.
Attachment 245674
Attachment 245675
Attachment 245676
Attachment 245677
Attachment 245678
Hi guys, I've read most of this nice thread but still I've got a doubt. Can you recognize what focal lens are these 2? The first (longer) has a serial number 22657, the shorter 25844.
Attachment 247689
Attachment 247690
These are probably original with the travel camera - and in lovely condition! A normal and a wide angle Aplanat - perhaps with same sized mounting flange?
The spread of serial numbers could indicate that the lower number (standard) was selling a bit slower than the later serial number (wide-angle), OR the wide angle was a later addition to this travel set!
There should be some size numbers engraved?
And there were two parallel series of wide-angle aplanats/rectilinears!
I include extracts from the Hermagis booklet which show serial numbers close to yours and the various sizes available!
Great work here to build a better serial timeline. I'll link to it from my site.
Came here fishing for information about the connection between Hermagis projection lenses and the identical models made/marketed by F. Faliez from 1920-1940. Anyone have any clues?