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Re: Spot metering reversal/E6 films (Velvia, Provia, etc) films for twilight cityscap
Evening light which contains a mix of various kinds of artificial light can be challenging; and longer exposures potentially introduce reciprocity failure factors. All I can say is, experiment with a 35mm roll first under analogous conditions. Zone System talk is of little value in color photography, especially under these circumstances. I just so much easier to just go do it, and then recalibrate from there in relation to large format work. Just remember that smaller working apertures lead to longer exposures, so factor that into your tests to begin with.
Since Velvia has so little latitude, I probably wouldn't shoot that unless you're already quite confident with it. But it can work wonders in softer light.
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Re: Spot metering reversal/E6 films (Velvia, Provia, etc) films for twilight cityscap
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bdkphoto
You spend too much time believing internet twaddle. The only thing you are doing here is showing your ignorance. Your questions have been answered here by people who have far more experience and success than you. Its time for you to stop trolling.
If you've reached the limits of your skills and expertise in this discussion, it's time for you to stop commenting rather than resorting to insults and excrement-flinging.
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Re: Spot metering reversal/E6 films (Velvia, Provia, etc) films for twilight cityscap
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Drew Wiley
Evening light which contains a mix of various kinds of artificial light can be challenging; and longer exposures potentially introduce reciprocity failure factors. All I can say is, experiment with a 35mm roll first under analogous conditions. Zone System talk is of little value in color photography, especially under these circumstances. I just so much easier to just go do it, and then recalibrate from there in relation to large format work. Just remember that smaller working apertures lead to longer exposures, so factor that into your tests to begin with.
Since Velvia has so little latitude, I probably wouldn't shoot that unless you're already quite confident with it. But it can work wonders in softer light.
All the challenges you describe are very real, and indeed are many of the reasons I started this thread. If Velvia wasn't so unforgiving then I wouldn't be so focused on accuracy and precision in metering!
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Re: Spot metering reversal/E6 films (Velvia, Provia, etc) films for twilight cityscap
In case anyone is actually using DSLRs for metering, DXOMark publishes lens transmission tests. For example the Canon 24-70/2.8 has a transmission (T-stop) rating of 3.5 wide open:
https://www.dxomark.com/Lenses/Canon...OS-5DS-R__1009
So if you are metering with a 24-70/2.8, add 2/3 stop to what the camera meter tells you (in addition to any sensor ISO correction factor).
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Re: Spot metering reversal/E6 films (Velvia, Provia, etc) films for twilight cityscap
Quote:
Originally Posted by
spotless_camera
In case anyone is actually using DSLRs for metering, DXOMark publishes lens transmission tests. For example the Canon 24-70/2.8 has a transmission (T-stop) rating of 3.5 wide open:
https://www.dxomark.com/Lenses/Canon...OS-5DS-R__1009
So if you are metering with a 24-70/2.8, add 2/3 stop to what the camera meter tells you (in addition to any sensor ISO correction factor).
There is a very simple reason this is incorrect - I'm sure with a little thought you can figure it out.
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Re: Spot metering reversal/E6 films (Velvia, Provia, etc) films for twilight cityscap
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bdkphoto
There is a very simple reason this is incorrect - I'm sure with a little thought you can figure it out.
Ah, sorry, my error -- that should be "reduce" and not "add" 2/3 stop. The exposure reading given by the camera is 2/3 stop too high due to losses in the lens.
This is why juggling a dozen correction factors in the field is a bad idea!
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Re: Spot metering reversal/E6 films (Velvia, Provia, etc) films for twilight cityscap
Honestly, if I had thought about metering the way Mr. Spotless does, I’d have turned around, hugged my light meter goodbye, and taken up knitting instead.:rolleyes:
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Re: Spot metering reversal/E6 films (Velvia, Provia, etc) films for twilight cityscap
Quote:
Originally Posted by
spotless_camera
Ah, sorry, my error -- that should be "reduce" and not "add" 2/3 stop. The exposure reading given by the camera is 2/3 stop too high due to losses in the lens.
This is why juggling a dozen correction factors in the field is a bad idea!
Still wrong
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Spot metering reversal/E6 films (Velvia, Provia, etc) films for twilight cityscap
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Drew Wiley
Evening light which contains a mix of various kinds of artificial light can be challenging; and longer exposures potentially introduce reciprocity failure factors. All I can say is, experiment with a 35mm roll first under analogous conditions. Zone System talk is of little value in color photography, especially under these circumstances. I just so much easier to just go do it, and then recalibrate from there in relation to large format work. Just remember that smaller working apertures lead to longer exposures, so factor that into your tests to begin with.
Since Velvia has so little latitude, I probably wouldn't shoot that unless you're already quite confident with it. But it can work wonders in softer light.
Attachment 259751
Power plant on Fujichrome Provia 100 4"x5", just a UV filter (what else?) on the Symmar-S 150mm and "a mix of various of artificial light...".
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Re: Spot metering reversal/E6 films (Velvia, Provia, etc) films for twilight cityscap
Quote:
Originally Posted by
phdgent
Attachment 259751
Power plant on Fujichrome Provia 100 4"x5", just a UV filter (what else?) on the Symmar-S 150mm and "a mix of various of artificial light...".
Not bad. How did you meter it?
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Re: Spot metering reversal/E6 films (Velvia, Provia, etc) films for twilight cityscap
Quote:
Originally Posted by
spotless_camera
Not bad. How did you meter it?
At the time I had a Gossen Variosix and measured this scene reflectively, with the diffuser dome taken off. A Spot metering would have been to complex due to the too many and too different (and extreme) 'zones'.
First slightly pointed upwards to somewhat avoiding the dominant reflexions on the water, then pointed a bit downwards to evaluate the intensity of the reflexions, and then guessing something like an average between the two as a basis for the bracketing: +2/3 — 0 — -2/3 stop, what I usually did with Provia as, to my personal opinion, a full stop was a bit too much of a good thing.
The best one was the '+2/3' as then the building came out a bit 'brighter', what was important to better show the aero condenser in the back, and the highlights (e.i. reflexions) were still 'acceptable' and could be handled by the fotogravure.
I let the photogravure (=chromiste) choose between the tree diapositives.
What you see here is a hardly edited home scan on an EPSON 750 of the '0' stop exposure as the good one (+2/3) was kept by the client.
This photo was taken at the end 1990's (and home processed in my Colenta AT60 machine).
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Re: Spot metering reversal/E6 films (Velvia, Provia, etc) films for twilight cityscap
Quote:
Originally Posted by
phdgent
At the time I had a Gossen Variosix and measured this scene reflectively, with the diffuser dome taken off. A Spot metering would have been to complex due to the too many and too different (and extreme) 'zones'.
First slightly pointed upwards to somewhat avoiding the dominant reflexions on the water, then pointed a bit downwards to evaluate the intensity of the reflexions, and then guessing something like an average between the two as a basis for the bracketing: +2/3 — 0 — -2/3 stop, what I usually did with Provia as, to my personal opinion, a full stop was a bit too much of a good thing.
The best one was the '+2/3' as then the building came out a bit 'brighter', what was important to better show the aero condenser in the back, and the highlights (e.i. reflexions) were still 'acceptable' and could be handled by the fotogravure.
I let the photogravure (=chromiste) choose between the tree diapositives.
What you see here is a hardly edited home scan on an EPSON 750 of the '0' stop exposure as the good one (+2/3) was kept by the client.
This photo was taken at the end 1990's (and home processed in my Colenta AT60 machine).
Interesting, thanks. Having a Colenta at home is impressive!
Quote:
A Spot metering would have been to complex due to the too many and too different (and extreme) 'zones'.
Indeed, the complexity is one reason that this thread exists.
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Re: Spot metering reversal/E6 films (Velvia, Provia, etc) films for twilight cityscap
Useful idea:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alan9940
I meter a shadow area where I want to preserve detail, and then store that reading. I meter a highlight (high value) area where I wish to preserve detail, and then store that reading. Then, I press the "Avg" button. I know that this meter will give me good high values up to about +2.5 stops over the average, and good shadows down to about -2.5 stops under the average. This is about a 5 stop range which is pretty much the limit of the Velvia 50 or Provia 100 that I shoot. Before I expose any film, I will hold in the metering button and scan the scene watching the EV difference from the average. If I don't find any other highlight and/or shadow area that falls beyond that -2.5 to +2.5 range, then I twirl the wheel to obtain the aperture I wish to shoot at, set the exposure accordingly, and expose. If I find an area outside the aforementioned range--lets say I scan across a shadow area that reads -3.0 EV that I care about (who knows why I didn't see that area in the first place!)--then I adjust my average reading accordingly and expose. This is all way more difficult to write about than it is to do...
https://www.largeformatphotography.i...=1#post1448534
