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I just use a jacket for a dark cloth. Works fine. During the day I have no trouble focusing with an f8 lens. At night or in very low light I do notice increased difficulty. If you mostly only photo during the day I don't think it's going to matter. As for my jacket, I simply gather it tightly around the back of the camera if needed. I'm too cheap to spend money on a dark cloth.
Kent in SD
I'm willing to bet that there are a few dozen threads in which people are asked whether they think that f/8 works as well as f/5.6 for composing and focusing. Invariably, the answers are all over the map. I think that it depends on your eyesight, your technique, the lighting conditions under which you make photographs, how heavy a lens you're prepared to use and how much money you're prepared to spend. Personally, of the 11 lenses that I own, the only one with a maximum aperture smaller than f/6.8 is a Fujinon C 600mm. That tells you my priorities. Yours may be different :)
Darkcloths etc have been discussed many times before. One common sense trick is to wear sunglasses until you're under the cloth. For indoor architectural shots I wisely opted for a 90/4.5 SW. Outdoors, depends. I don't like any kind of fresnel or screen "brightener".
If the question is really about the efficiency of different kinds of dark cloths, there's a reasonable argument for dark cloths that block light reflected from the ground. There are a few designs of this type. I happen to like Paramo's dark cloth, and wrote about it in this thread: Paramo/Joe Cornish Dark Cloth
The thread includes a video of Joe Cornish showing how the dark cloth works.
That's the type of "hooded" dark cloth I was referring to. Blocking reflected light from the ground IMO is essential. The Paramo looks perfect, too bad they're out of stock.Quote:
Originally Posted by r.e.
The reason we're discussing dark cloths on the thread is that the question of f8 and f5.6 is somewhat related to what dark cloth you use. A good dark cloth will darken the environment to the point that your eyes adjust accordingly.
I personally never found it that difficult to focus in dim conditions using a loupe, but framing can be challenging, especially seeing the corners during a sunset or dusk shot.
Shooting in dusk, dawn or magic hour, I find that my 65mm 5.6 is considerably brighter than my 90mm f8, but again I don't have a proper dark cloth, which is why I'm asking out in the forum.
I'm aware that the 90mm f8 is much smaller than the 90mm f5.6.
For a 90mm, there are multiple relevant considerations. Movements, ground glass brightness, and size and weight. There was a time when I was interested in doing interior, architectural photography. So despite the additional weight and size, I had a 90mm f5.6 lens which enhances both ground glass brightness and image circle.
Currently, my primary interests are exterior architecture, landscape, and fine art photography. So, weight and size are important considerations. In subsequent readings, I found out that a 90mm f6 lens gives one nice sharpness, and the same image circle as my f5.6 Super Angulon. I don't really need ground glass brightness, so I can opt for less weight and less size in this lens. Yet, I still get the sharpness and the same image circle of my former f5.6 optic.
Why would you not use a dark cloth?
My short focal length lenses (90mm and 72mm) are both f/5.6 and I find it difficult to see beyond the center in low light (which is usually the condition I’m shooting under). If I were going back in time I might have chosen the Rodenstock equivalents at f/4.5 :) - not that it would make any real difference for me. I can set up/frame ok, but focusing, forget it. I have to use laser pointers. Or whenever possible I try to actually figure it all out under brighter conditions and then make the exposures later.
This is just to balance the thread with the worst case scenario. I’m just not good at seeing the ground glass. It was always difficult for me. Maybe it’s partially because I also do a lot of 35mm photography - so much easier to see in the dark.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
Ben,
See my last post in your other thread too.
My take on how to deal with low-light situations is to get a good dark cloth and give your eyes time to adjust to the darkness. Most people have really good vision in low light if they just let their eyes adjust.
I work without a darkcloth with many lenses in regular daylight, but in low light situations, especially when using my f/8-f/9 lenses (which I have a lot of since I like light (weight) more than I like bright), I drag out the darkcloth. Mine has Velcro all around so I can fasten it around the camera and under me, giving me an almost totally dark environment. If you have a darkcloth that will do that for you, and give yourself 5-10 minutes to adjust, you should be able to easily see an image from an f/8 lens in anything but the dimmest light (or if you have cataracts that are well-advanced).
If you're asking this because you're deciding if an f/8 lens will suit your needs, get out your darkcloth, find a low-light situations, set up your camera with widest lenses, stop them down to f/8 and crawl under the darkcloth for a while and see for yourself. That should give you a good idea.
FWIW, I made exposures in extreme low-light situations (think 20+-minute exposures) for which I only looked at my ground glass for a second or two with the loupe to make sure one or two things were in focus. With a view camera, you can do most of the composing and choosing of lens focal length away from the camera.
Best,
Doremus
Further to Doremus's comments in this and the other thread about composing independently of the camera's ground glass...
I don't know Doremus's technique, but I'm sold on the app Artist's Viewfinder. If you have an iPhone 11 or later, the phone's wide angle lens will get the job done for short focal lengths; otherwise you'll need a supplementary lens for the phone. I don't know if there is an Android equivalent. See this thread: What Scouting/Planning Apps Are You Using in 2021?
I have never used a dark cloth with 4x5, I use just the fold out hood and a long-reach focus loupe. But all my lenses are 5.6. I'm not sure if I could get away with not using a dark cloth with slower lenses.