Bad ventilation in darkroom
Yaakov, I too have a very small darkroom and as yet haven't got around to sorting out a ventilation system - but i think it would now be a wise thing to do! I manage by using odourless (almost!) chemistry and having regular breaks where I leave the door open! Can anyone comment on the portable "Filtaire"? units that I've seen advertised - are they any use? many thanks Paul
Bad ventilation in darkroom
A respirator does not replace good ventilation. I would say to work on getting your ventilation worked out and do everything you possibly can before going the respirator route...they're uncomfortable to wear, and if you don't know how to use them properly, they can actually do more harm than good. You shouldn't have to wear one for ordinary b&w work, but goggles & gloves, and proximity to a hose for an emergency eyewash are always a good idea...
Bad ventilation in darkroom
Maybe this is a point that I should've expanded on in a clearer fashion. Good ventilation is I think mandatory when working with chemicals, but it is not 100% protection agianst you breathing in some degree of toxic vapours.
The real danger is working in a ventilated envirement with chemicals whose exposure to you causes no immediate ill effects, which lulls you into a false sense of securtiy. These chemicals can still have long term cumulative effects on your lungs,nervous system, your heart, kidneys, liver, and so on.
Once these long term effects kick in, its too late to wear a respirator, or buy a portable purification system. Granted, wearing a respirator is difficult to get used to at first. I am used to wearing one which is second nature for me since I also use it for woodworking. You feel like you're not getting enough air at first, it can also be uncomfortable until you get used to it. You must also know how to check it fit and seal(put your hand over the exhaust vent and inhale, if you have a tight seal the respirator will draw tighter).
They have portable purification systems, which I understand do about the same thing as a respirator which might be worth looking into.
I understand that it's human nature not to want to wear something uncomfortable or use things that are troublesome, in an envirement where you breathe in and feel absolutely no ill effects. That doesn't mean that the stuff your working with isn't working on you.
Bad ventilation in darkroom
Jonathan, let me clarify my answer then...it comes from working in a state agency with a safety program revolving around OSHA certification for the use of any repirators or any safety equipment....our darkrooms(2) are outfitted with OSHA approved eyewash stations, dilution ventilation and one very nice, slot hood for using sulfide toners. We run E6, b&w deeptanks, and b&w processors as well. To wear a respirator requires clearance from a safety officer & labor dept. training...the respirator training essentially gives you a fit test, but of course, things like facial hair(beards etc.) are a no-no. If it were required in my job, as it is in other positions within my dept., for me to wear a respirator...I wouldn't be telling you this now.
I'm a pretty safety conscious person, doing darkroom work for a living and on my own time...believe me, I understand the value of good ventilation. It's better to trap the vapors/fumes at the source and use dilution ventilation to control the general environment, than to rely on respirators to make up for shoddy ventilation. Since I'm not a toxicologist or an environmental engineer, I won't make any widespread safety judgements here...
Bad ventilation in darkroom
Yes D.K., we're in agreement on everthing you've said. I learned how to wear a respirator years ago during a four year stint in a job where you were required to wear a respirator(trained per OSHA reg.).
Yes I agree on the issue of the darkroom requirements, my comments were geared for the folk who have fashioned their own darkroom. I certainly don't mean to suggest that the respirator should be your primary protect against toxic vapours, although I personally wear one in additon to all the other safeguards.
I smoked for twenty years, developed Bronchitis, and became very sensitive to things other people couldn't smell or weren't affected by. I quit smoking 8yrs ago and my lungs healed up quite a bit, but I still wear the respirator out of habit no matter how safe the circustances.
I agree with you as I've said in earliers posts about getting the ventilation/safety issues resolved as a first priority for anybody. My main point is that if you have homemade darkroom, just using the smell test, or sniff test as an indicator that everything is ok, isn't necessarily the safe thing to do.
Bad ventilation in darkroom
Ventilation is a must but after developing asthma, as well as some fine photos, I find the best fumes are no fumes at all. Get some plastiboard, looks like plastic cardboard, and cover the trays when not in use.
Bad ventilation in darkroom
Jonathan, I understand your position, but my concern is that the "home darkroom" folks reading this will believe a respirator is a magic cure-all for ventilation problems. As someone who has gone through the OSHA respirator training, surely you must understand that there is more to it than a fit test. There are also some fumes & vapors that no cartridges will filter out such as gases put off by sulfide toners etc. Check out the standard for respirators & darkroom work...as far as odorless chemistry goes, there is no such thing. That's like saying "odorless natural gas". All chemistry has byproducts that it generates in use as well. Most regular b&w darkroom work can be controlled by good ventillation. Now, if I was standing in a spray booth using toulene to hose off a screen, you bet I'd have a respirator on, as well as the booth itself.
Bad ventilation in darkroom
D.K., as I've mentioned in my earlier posts anyone dealing with any chemicals should get the specs and handling protocols for those chemicals. I think I've been very clear about properly ventilating a darkroom as anyones first priority, I beleive I mentioned that three times.
I beleive I've mentioned that when you using a mask you should get the proper filtration and of course the mask is useless if you filters don't deal with the vapours you're being exposed to. I never said nor would I ever imply that a mask is a magic cure all.
I never said anything about odorless, I talked about the fact that human nature being what it is, a lot of folks, including me in the past, have dealt with chemicals and didn't feel any immediate ill effects anf figured everything is ok. That's why I did a dumb thing like smoke for twenty years. But it caught up with me.
Remember the original question? Yaakov wanted to know if wearing a mask would help until he straigtened out the darkroom problem. I'm sure if you glance over my earlier posts you see that I mentioned that he sould quit using his darkroom until he has proper ventilation. If in spite of this suggestion, Yaakov is going to work in his darkroom anyway, which I'm saying he SHOUDN'T, and there's no convincing him otherwise, then he should at least find out if there's filtration he can use in a respirator to protect himself.
Consider this, I developed Bronchitis from smoking, before this I had bleach, drano, cleanser, all the same things in my home that probably of lot of folks have under their kitchen sink and/or in the laundry room. None of this stuff affected me or my wife in any way. When I developed brochitis I got real sick from just having this stuff in the house and I had to get rid of it. I realized that all along this was in the air but we just ignored it all these years until I came down with Bronchitis.
Just like the previous poster who developed asthma who mentioned no fumes, I just couldn't tolerate any fumes. The bronchitis has cleared up, but I continue to wear my respirator as an additional safeguard on top of proper ventilation.
I know fellow woodworkers who won't wear a respirator while they saw their lumber. Sawing lumber produces a fine airborne dust which you cannot see. Without proper ventilation and a respirator, breathing in this dust over the long term will eventiually kill you. Because it takes twenty years to kill you, some woodworkers scoff at the idea of using a respirator. Breathing this stuff for a day, a week, a month, even a year might not affect you, like some of the checials you expose yourself to in a darkroom.
Odorless has nothing to do with D.K., I think that's misrepresenting my point. I think more to the point is no odor at all, if at all possible.
Bad ventilation in darkroom
Yaakov, are you using some metol based developer? If so, switch over to phenidon based. The metol is toxic and very fast allergizing. It's more than fifteen years I used MQ developer, but still today if I come into a place where it's used, I'm beginning to feel ill. I'm making BW more seldom now, but when I do, Iuse Ilford PQ developer.
Bad ventilation in darkroom
DK, a couple of comments:
Sulfide toners will not produce hydrogen sulfide (very toxic) unless they come in contact with an acid. This is the reason why they are packaged in a high pH form.
Natural gas IS odorless, the gas companies add mercaptans precisely so that people would be able to smell a gas leak.
When I recommended Yakov a combination cartridge I was thinking of a regular printing session where you have a paper developer, an acid bath and a fixer. Now if you are doing mercury intensification then sure you need another cartridge for that...and on and on...I think everybody here agrees that the best solution is to ventilate his darkroom and forget about the cartridge solution. On the other hand if you are doing salted paper prints then even with a well ventilated room it is recommended to use an ammonia cartridge. In the end I think Yakov is smart enough to use common sense and resolve his problem in an intelligent manner.