Use of X-ray film: technical discussion with example images

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Originally Posted by Brian Bullen

Discouragement is not a productive way forward.

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My point exactly. Which is why I press my point. If it's clear up front to someone what they're getting into, the chances that it's something they're actually looking for are higher. That's managing expectations, not discouragement! It's great that you knew what you were getting into. I bet most people who try xray film for the first time don't and expect something that's a cheaper but nearly equivalent alternative to regular film. If you love it for what it is, that's great. And indeed, I don't, but that doesn't mean the next person should feel the same way. Obviously!

Only recently has the X-Ray thread been attacked for not being perfect

Nobody ever used any film perfectly the first go

Soon X-Ray will be gone

Cool it please

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Originally Posted by koraks

My point exactly. Which is why I press my point. If it's clear up front to someone what they're getting into, the chances that it's something they're actually looking for are higher. That's managing expectations, not discouragement! It's great that you knew what you were getting into. I bet most people who try xray film for the first time don't and expect something that's a cheaper but nearly equivalent alternative to regular film. If you love it for what it is, that's great. And indeed, I don't, but that doesn't mean the next person should feel the same way. Obviously!

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Originally Posted by Peter De Smidt

Boat Launch, Amsterdam Beach

Camera: Kodak 2D 8x10, circa 1930,
Film: Fujifilm HRT Green Sensitive X-ray film,
Filter: Hoya X1 HMC (yellow/green),
Lens: Fuji 210w,

Developer: Pyrocat HD MC.
Method: Jobo CPP-2 with an Expert Drum

"Thank you!" to Nikhilesh Sekhar for giving me a few sheets of the x-ray film to test.

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Beautiful shot

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Originally Posted by photoevangelist

8x10 Fuji HR-A (Green Sensitive Xray) @ ISO 160, Rodinal 1:50, 4 min., Dagor 12"
developed individually in trays with glass on bottom, negative is not stripped
v750 w/EpsonScan Software + www.betterscanning.com glass on top of 4 Korean pennies
2400 dpi scan makes it a 64x80 inch print @ 300dpi, but our Epson Stylus Pro 9600 only prints up to 42 inches wide

100% view - dust & scratches, levels, smart sharpening 100% @ 2 pixels:
Attachment 97583

Print size view:
Attachment 97584

Printing in progress:
Attachment 97589

Show opening:
Attachment 97590

Looks fabulous as a 40x50 inch print, I have no need to go larger than this...

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What an accomplishment.

PE-2 is an expert and chose X-Ray!

I have had some interchanges with him, last he was teaching LF in Korea where nobody was using LF


I sold and shipped him an 8X10 C1 in very good condition to Korea

Excellent example!

I think he used students as sitters

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Originally Posted by Edison

What an accomplishment.

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Originally Posted by SergeiR

and if you REALLY careful...

8x10, Kodak CSG, 1s, Yellow/Green filter, Symmar, 8m in 1:100 R09

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5442/9...14bafee9_b.jpg
Scan-130721-0004www by Sergei Rodionov, on Flickr

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Amazing shot.

Sergei Rodionov another X-Ray PROFESSIONAL

I met he and his wife in times of trouble and good times

He helped me a lot on this forum get through my MANY LF mistakes, X-Ray saved me money

Look at his flicker, a lot is X-Ray

https://www.flickr.com/photos/sergeistudio/

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Originally Posted by Mkillmer

I'm pretty new to the X-ray world, but I have been using paRodinal 1+50 for the last week - I'm very happy with the results:

Attachment 101606

Attachment 101607

Attachment 101608

Attachment 101609

I've been shooting Fuji HRT 8x10 at ISO 100 under strobes.

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Wonderful.

https://www.analoguelab.com.au/film-...ipe-parodinal/

Until actual and cheap Rodinol is NOT available I will use it

Experiment ON!

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Originally Posted by skuuterboy

Attachment 103447

This is my favorite image from the first shoot I've done in 8x10. The film is Kodak Ektascan B/RA rated at 100 and processed on a Jobo in Rodinal 1:200 8' -the camera is a Toyo 810G and the lens is a Plaubel Anticomar 4.2/300 wide open.

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Excellent!

Well, all I can say is that it's been a hoot being a part of this thread from the beginning...2009! I'm glad I stuck it out with this stuff. I gave it up briefly, but got back into it when I built my "piece of crap" 14x17 back in 2011.

I’ve been shooting Fuji full speed blue rx-n with a yellow filter at iso 25 with decent results. I like it so much I decided to get hr-U green “orthochromatic”. I did some side by side shots with the yellow filter and at iso 25. The green stuff turned out much darker, I’d say 5 stops darker maybe. I think the shadow detail Loss is probably not from the film but from the underexposure. I’ll test hr-u again wo the yellow filter and at iso 6 or 12.

Top two have been heavily shopped to match. Bottom two are flat scans.

Hr-u:Attachment 232009

Rx-n:Attachment 232008

Hr-u: Attachment 232010

Rx-n: Attachment 232011


PS this is 10 minutes of tray developed d76 1:2

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Originally Posted by Edison

I’ve been shooting Fuji full speed blue rx-n with a yellow filter at iso 25 with decent results. I like it so much I decided to get hr-U green “orthochromatic”. I did some side by side shots with the yellow filter and at iso 25. The green stuff turned out much darker, I’d say 5 stops darker maybe. I think the shadow detail Loss is probably not from the film but from the underexposure. I’ll test hr-u again wo the yellow filter and at iso 6 or 12.


PS this is 10 minutes of tray developed d76 1:2

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whatever your issue is, it's not the film, unless you got a bad box that was stored improperly or something. hr-u green should be perfectly useable at iso 100 or higher.

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Originally Posted by Edison

I’ve been shooting Fuji full speed blue rx-n with a yellow filter at iso 25 with decent results. I like it so much I decided to get hr-U green “orthochromatic”. I did some side by side shots with the yellow filter and at iso 25. The green stuff turned out much darker, I’d say 5 stops darker maybe. I think the shadow detail Loss is probably not from the film but from the underexposure. I’ll test hr-u again wo the yellow filter and at iso 6 or 12.

Top two have been heavily shopped to match. Bottom two are flat scans.

Hr-u:Attachment 232009

Rx-n:Attachment 232008

Hr-u: Attachment 232010

Rx-n: Attachment 232011


PS this is 10 minutes of tray developed d76 1:2

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From my little experience with HR-U i rate it at iso25 and works well with dilluted developers.
As for the yellow filter, when i use a 2x yellow filter with HR-U i give it 3 stops overexposure (instead of 1 in the case of a panchro film)

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Originally Posted by chris73

From my little experience with HR-U i rate it at iso25 and works well with dilluted developers.
As for the yellow filter, when i use a 2x yellow filter with HR-U i give it 3 stops overexposure (instead of 1 in the case of a panchro film)

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Thanks what I was thinking, the yellow filter may be cutting out more light than expected. I’ll test again and report back. Thanks!

This is a brand new box from zz medical, so I hope it’s good film.

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Originally Posted by maltfalc

whatever your issue is, it's not the film, unless you got a bad box that was stored improperly or something. hr-u green should be perfectly useable at iso 100 or higher.

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Im only at page 250 or so of the thread, trying to catch up. I hear people mentioning 200 even, but I haven’t seen anyone talk about hr-U specifically, I think.

The zz medical site says hr-u is green, but the spec sheet says “orthochromatic” implying it’s green blue, if I understand it right.

The blue one is rx-n and it’s called “full speed” whatever that means.

I’ll try 100, 50, and 25 iso without the filter, and then as the other comment suggests, essentially iso 3 with a yellow filter. I’m using a 2 yellow 8 which is a mild yellow, typically 2/3 a stop

Once I'm through the 100 sheets of the cxsonline green latitude 14x17 (got about 20 sheets left...), I'll tackle my box of HR-U Green. I'm imagining EI will be similar.

I have been buying $1000's of X-Ray film from ZZ for a decade

Always' fresh, in date

No worries with ZZ as they are bonafide MEDICAL suppliers

Iowa is trustworthy

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Originally Posted by Edison

Thanks what I was thinking, the yellow filter may be cutting out more light than expected. I’ll test again and report back. Thanks!

This is a brand new box from zz medical, so I hope it’s good film.

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They found me a full case of 14X17 single sided just as it disappeared, that was $1000

Well worth it

I also have plenty of 2x with some coming this week

The old guard dislikes we novices as they fear their fave film will in fade away

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Originally Posted by Edison

Im only at page 250 or so of the thread, trying to catch up. I hear people mentioning 200 even, but I haven’t seen anyone talk about hr-U specifically, I think.

The zz medical site says hr-u is green, but the spec sheet says “orthochromatic” implying it’s green blue, if I understand it right.

The blue one is rx-n and it’s called “full speed” whatever that means.

I’ll try 100, 50, and 25 iso without the filter, and then as the other comment suggests, essentially iso 3 with a yellow filter. I’m using a 2 yellow 8 which is a mild yellow, typically 2/3 a stop

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hr-u replaced hr-t at some point if that helps, basically the same. x-ray films come in "green" or "blue" versions for use with green or blue x-ray phosphor screens. blue is plain silver halides, so uv-violet-blue sensitive. green trades about half that sensitivity for sensitivity to cyan-green-yellow (mostly green), so it's orthochromatic. fuji colour codes their boxes green or blue. i've never used rx-n, but i would expect it to be much darker than green hr-u if you're using a yellow filter.

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Originally Posted by maltfalc

hr-u replaced hr-t at some point if that helps, basically the same. x-ray films come in "green" or "blue" versions for use with green or blue x-ray phosphor screens. blue is plain silver halides, so uv-violet-blue sensitive. green trades about half that sensitivity for sensitivity to cyan-green-yellow (mostly green), so it's orthochromatic. fuji colour codes their boxes green or blue. i've never used rx-n, but i would expect it to be much darker than green hr-u if you're using a yellow filter.

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RX-N is what I started with and I set my meter to 16iso and meter for zone 3. I’m not happy with my highlights so I’m going to Keep experimenting with d76. It seems like almost nobody uses d76 so far (up to 258). Rx-n: Attachment 232063

I can’t wait to go out tomorrow and test more.

Edit: using a yellow filter

The problem with D76 is that Kodak raised the price dramatically. It was 4€ for the to make-1l powder few years ago, now it is around 8€...
And I really like D76 over HC110.

If the price of Ilford ID-11 is lower, use that. It is the same formula as D-76. Or you can mix your own D-23 (only two compounds plus water), which is functionally very close to D-76. XTOL and its various clones from other manufacturers are also functionally very close to D-76. XTOL can be used in a replenishment regime too. Just some options.

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Originally Posted by Roberto Nania

The problem with D76 is that Kodak raised the price dramatically. It was 4€ for the to make-1l powder few years ago, now it is around 8€...
And I really like D76 over HC110.

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Originally Posted by Roberto Nania

The problem with D76 is that Kodak raised the price dramatically. It was 4€ for the to make-1l powder few years ago, now it is around 8€...
And I really like D76 over HC110.

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The cost may have come down. I get it for $9.95 per gallon. 3785ml / 25ml per sheet = 151 sheets or $.07 per 4x5.

$28 per box of RX-N (400 4x5s).

Attachment 232069

PS I’m also diluting currently at 1:2 so 200ml out of the 600ml of working solution takes care of 8 sheets in a tray.

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Originally Posted by Michael R

If the price of Ilford ID-11 is lower, use that. It is the same formula as D-76. Or you can mix your own D-23 (only two compounds plus water), which is functionally very close to D-76. XTOL and its various clones from other manufacturers are also functionally very close to D-76. XTOL can be used in a replenishment regime too. Just some options.

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That was one option. Metol is at around 34€ for 100gr (I bet in US is way more cheaper). It will give around 26 sessions of 1 liter working solution in 1+1 diluition.

Some success with HR-U. I shot it at 25, 50, and 100. Developed D76 1:2 for 7 minutes. I'm pretty sure the order of these is 25 50 100 but it's hard to tell the second two. I also shot one with a yellow filter at iso 3 and it still came out very under exposed. I'm going to try a new yellow filter test when I can. Attachment 232080

Obviously I need to work on being more careful handling the film. I'm using a rotatrim to cut (and this one I tried 3 sheets at once, I assume that's how I got so many scratches this time.)

I'm going to try wearing nitrile gloves during the cutdown process, loading process, and development process. It was also suggested a flat bottomed tray will help. I'll look for a set, or 3 5x7 sheets of glass. I'm curious to how flipping through a stack of 8 will go with the flat bottom. I'm worried the bottom one will stick.

I'm very happy with the results overall with HR-U. RX-N has a dreamy look but HR-U looks pretty realistic. Thanks for all the help so far (on page 278/629).

Attachment 232081
Checkers

Fuji RX-N at 25iso in d76 1:2 for 7 minutes

My experience: plexiglass in the bottom of each tray, process one sheet at a time, mix D-23 from bulk chemicals, gentle tray rocking for agitation, cover tray during development because HRU is more sensitive to safelight than you might expect

Am I the only one using D-23? I've used a gazillion developers over the years with XRAY films, and it has been my favourite so far. D-23 1+1, 1+2.
Bob, plexi on the bottom of ribbed trays is a great idea. I did that (actually with plate glass because heavier), until I got my hands on a few flat-bottomed trays. Before the plate glass technique, I used giant ziplock bags. Film inserted, developer poured in (pyrocat-hd back in those days). Worked well but had to puff in a bit of air to keep the plastic from settling on the film during rest period. I didn't like my lips getting that close to the developer... neither did my wife!
I prefer flat-bottomed trays, but are they EVER expensive new. Got mine second hand... Thanks for the safelight warning... I'll be cracking open my box of HRU in the very near future. My ceiling hung amber coloured safelight has worked well with several different brands, so I'm hoping HRU will, too. Cheers!

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Originally Posted by Edison

Attachment 232081
Checkers

Fuji RX-N at 25iso in d76 1:2 for 7 minutes

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Looks good. I have a box of RX-N, I will need to give it a go. I like the Legacy Microdol-X as it restrains and lengthens the development time. I have gone as long as eighteen minutes at 60F in replenished Mic-X. A gallon will last you many years of use I have found. So very economical

Daylight color is also a factor. HRU is most sensitive at straight up high noon light. As the light becomes more orangish later in the day, the exposures need to be increased. Take copious notes and keep going. Handling without scratching is a huge issue. I have not scratched any film while it is still dry. It scratches uber uber easy when wet. Best to bracket while you are getting your handle on this. I shoot dupes I don't want any scratches


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...881ae3bc_b.jpgAshton Pond Norma Handy HRU Mic-X 2 by Nokton48, on Flickr

Ashton Pond Columbus Ohio Sinar Norma Handy 4x5 Fuji HR-U XRay 65mm F8 at F22 Schneider CF + Sinar Norma Dark Yellow 103mm Glass Disk 1 sec at F22 Legacy Mic-X replenished stock in Cesco flat bottom tray 18 mins at 62F Arista #2 RC 4x 8x10 Multigrade dev

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...e8b067b9_b.jpgAuto Maki no 2 150 2.8 Xenotar HRU 5 by Nokton48, on Flickr

Plaubel Automatic Makiflex #2 150mm F2.8 Xenotar wide-open 1/15 Fuji 8x10 XRay HRU cut down to 4x5 in Graphmatic back StarD tripod. Development 12 minutes 60F straight Mic-X replenished by inspection of shadow values by deep red safelight. 8x10 Arista #2 RC Omega DII 180 Rodagon f22 50 seconds Omegalite diffusion head Multigrade developer

I also mix diluted D-23 from bulk chems and I'm also a happy camper. :) Also very economical

Well. I used glass bottoms in the trays. Gloves to cut down, gloves to load, unload, and develop. I did 5 sheets at once in D76 1:3 for 8 minutes. I like the exposure and development. But the scratches are comically numerous. Next I'll try just one sheet as advised to rule out the interleafing process. Attachment 232121Attachment 232122Attachment 232123

edit: i removed the carillon photo - i think that was a blue photo with a yellow filter.

Yes, I also did Ziploc processing

It works

but

but めんどくさい！ (mendokusai), as the Japanese say! ;)

Getting into that thread makes you want to try xray for sure.
Did anyone try SLIMT in order to tame the contrast of the film ?
Best to all.
G

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Originally Posted by GuillaumeZuili

Getting into that thread makes you want to try xray for sure.
Did anyone try SLIMT in order to tame the contrast of the film ?
Best to all.
G

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I think in the long run it would be better to use a low contrast/high speed developer. Of course this would take some up-front experimentation.

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Originally Posted by Tin Can

Yes, I also did Ziploc processing

It works

but

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What is the ziplock method? Someone I was chatting with said they put the film in and cut the corners of the bag and develop in tray- is this the only ziplock method?

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Originally Posted by Andrew O'Neill

Thanks for the safelight warning... I'll be cracking open my box of HRU in the very near future. My ceiling hung amber coloured safelight has worked well with several different brands, so I'm hoping HRU will, too. Cheers!

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you need a deep red safelight with hr-u, especially when it's wet.

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Originally Posted by maltfalc

you need a deep red safelight with hr-u, especially when it's wet.

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Good to know. Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Edison

What is the ziplock method? Someone I was chatting with said they put the film in and cut the corners of the bag and develop in tray- is this the only ziplock method?

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I talked a lot about it waaaaaay back in this thread... like we are talking years ago! I was using over-sized ziplok bags that I ordered online. The bag is laid in a tray, and the film is slipped inside. Developer poured in. I sealed up the bag leaving a tiny bit open so I could puff in some air with my mouth, then sealed (yes, gross I know). This kept the bag from collapsing on the film between agitation cycles. Agitate as normal. Worked really well until I discovered that smooth, flat-bottomed trays worked really well.

As for a safelight, I use a Kodak GBX-2 filter. It’s made for use with X-Ray film.

Took years to get that Data...secrets

NOW I have them in DR and my shooting space

trays ready with chem

I can shoot without shutter using strobe

My DR 6 years ago the entire condo was Blackout with LED safe light

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Originally Posted by j.e.simmons

As for a safelight, I use a Kodak GBX-2 filter. It’s made for use with X-Ray film.

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Originally Posted by j.e.simmons

As for a safelight, I use a Kodak GBX-2 filter. It’s made for use with X-Ray film.

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Thanks for that. I've got an old round safelight housing which will take one of those... I see some online.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...f030f047_b.jpgKodak 1A Grey Bullet Safelight 2 by Nokton48, on Flickr

Jason Lane led me to this, he uses it to coat his dry plates. I made a couple for myself, I have gone as long as twenty five minutes at five feet away, never fogged any Fuji HRU XRAY. It's the red 3 watt Red LED from Lowes, with a 1A Kodak Red Glass Filter. So, red light, through another red filter. I call it the "double-safe" light.

NO WAY THIS WILL FOG MY HRU XRAY

With this I can see well enough to inspect shadow detail while developing, no prob

Nice, Daniel.

I had 8 to develop so I used the yankee tank (hyper development artifacts on top and bottom) and d76 1:3 8 minutes with agitation every 30 seconds. Rated at iso 50. I guessed reciprocity failure of ^1.3 but I think they’re underexposed anyway.

Im getting a lot of fine white line artifacts and I think something is being “drawn” on the negative at some point, possibly from going in and out of the holders. I haven’t seen this before on pan film so im stumped.

But I think switching to hru was very good in regards to limiting halation and increasing sharpness.

Attachment 232192
Attachment 232193
And a crop from the above shot: Attachment 232194

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Originally Posted by Peter De Smidt

Nice, Daniel.

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Thanks Peter

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...67d711f3_b.jpgHRU Pulso Test 210 Componon f22 12 pops MicX by Nokton48, on Flickr

Testing my new Broncolor Pulso C171 375 WS Monolight with restored 80x80cm Pulso Softbox about three feet right. Silver Gold reflector on left. Fuji HRU XRay film 4x5 Sinar Norma 210mm chrome Componon Norma Shutter Mic-X replenished straight developed in a flat bottomed Cesco tray. Lisco 4x5 film holder. F22 I popped the strobe twelve times to build up the density. The Grey canvas background I painted myself; Just recently put it back up. The lens on Maki is a Fuji GX680 180mm F3.2, transplanted the cells into a Fuji WS 210 Seiko Shutter. Lens is clinically sharp; I have a portrait friend that says the lens is too sharp. So he hates it LOL

I process in Cesco flat 8x10 trays, XRAY clips keep the film from touching the bottom getting marks. Also the clips keep the sheets from bumping into each other, especially in the turbulent wash tray.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...523e2a72_b.jpgHRU Fixing Step Dental Clips 1 by Nokton48, on Flickr

This is the only way I have found I can get absolutely clean negatives without any scratches or abrasions. I want clean perfect negatives and this is what I have to do to get it with this stuff. If you look at it wrong it will scratch LOL ; I'm not kidding. Also I shoot dupes so success assured.

Well it's been a fun week. I found a leedal tank on craigslist and a kodak model d with gbx-2 filter safelight locally on ebay. The safelight makes a world of difference in the cutdown process and in general. I'm going to get an OC filter for printing. I really like the the hangers and dip tank too. No scratches. But I am getting these black dots (mottling?) I'm doing d76 1:4 for 9.5 minutes at 20c. Any thoughts to why?
Attachment 232337
Attachment 232338
Attachment 232339
And one I thought just looks nice
Attachment 232340

Some quick tests using my 4x5 pinhole.

AGFA Curix Ortho exp 2005 @ EI 64 developed 7mins, Kalogen 1:100 using a MOD 54/Patterson tank.
The films came out fogged but scanable though I'm unsure whether it's age, unsafe safelight or that my blackout hasn't completely blacked out the newly erected street lights facing where I cut the film. The writing on the second has me stumped.
I'm relocating to the laundry (no windows) and have adapted Daniel's/Jason Lane's idea of utilising a 3w red LED bulb filtered through a red lighting gel equivalent to a GBX filter. Hopefully I'll have some answers.

Attachment 232377
Attachment 232378
Attachment 232379
Attachment 232380

Negatives from above.

Attachment 232381