Spot metering reversal/E6 films (Velvia, Provia, etc) films for twilight cityscapes

E6 (reversal/transparency/slide) films like Velvia and Provia are notoriously fickle about exposure. This makes metering technique and a well calibrated spot meter crucial.

For landscapes, a spot meter and Zone System style methods work wonders. Put your brightest highlights (that need to keep detail) at +2 and your shadows at -2 or -2.5, and you're good to go.

However, while landscapes usually offer broad swathes of gentle gradients to place as shadows or highlights, the same is not true when you start shooting architecture and cityscapes. In a built or urban environment, bright highlights are often just pinpoints... while twilight can make your shadows too dark to meter.

Worst of all, the perfect light is fleeting, often lasting a few minutes at most. There is no time for bracketing, even if you could afford to do so.

What technique do you use for getting your exposure spot on in these difficult conditions?

I don't know if this is useful, but whenever I have shot images in the built urban environment at dusk there's generally been unmeterable artificial point light sources, which I think if what you're meaning here. They've always come out OK, which tells me it's probably not worth sweating the exact spotmeter readings of, say, pinpoint artificial lighting sources or things like that. Naturally we'd expect to see these looking very bright or even burnt out anyway. Instead I'd try and break the scene into broad zones - sky, foreground, distant buildings, work out what I need shadow detail in, what is fine as silhouettes/dark (because we expect some darkness at dusk), and meter and use grad filters accordingly (if possible). This is kinda how I would deal with structurally complex landscape scenes in nature too TBH. I'd be interested to hear from more experienced city shooters though.

https://www.largeformatphotography.i...4&d=1723630957

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Originally Posted by dave_whatever

I don't know if this is useful, but whenever I have shot images in the built urban environment at dusk there's generally been unmeterable artificial point light sources, which I think if what you're meaning here. They've always come out OK, which tells me it's probably not worth sweating the exact spotmeter readings of, say, pinpoint artificial lighting sources or things like that. Naturally we'd expect to see these looking very bright or even burnt out anyway. Instead I'd try and break the scene into broad zones - sky, foreground, distant buildings, work out what I need shadow detail in, what is fine as silhouettes/dark (because we expect some darkness at dusk), and meter and use grad filters accordingly (if possible). This is kinda how I would deal with structurally complex landscape scenes in nature too TBH. I'd be interested to hear from more experienced city shooters though.

https://www.largeformatphotography.i...4&d=1723630957

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Yes, my current approach is to ignore the point sources. Then I look for things that I can use to define the highlights and shadows, then take an average and check the contrast range is correct. This doesn't always work.

For example, there may not be any dark areas that are exactly as dark as I want the highlights to be bright... so if I take an average, the overall tonality of the scene is wrong.

Or a more common example is that the entire scene should be in the -2 to 1 EV range (or indeed -5 to 1 EV!), and the only real highlights are the pinpoint lights. Now what do I meter for my highlights, if there aren't any "bright" areas to define the highlights?

Sure, I could guess at what things in the picture should be 0 EV (zone V) or 1 EV (zone VI) but I've gotten terrible results with that approach. Should the side of that building be +0.7EV, +1 EV, or +1.3 EV? I haven't the foggiest idea! And with these films, you really do have to know EXACTLY...

Try using a digital camera as a meter and pick the exposure that looks right for the digital camera.

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Originally Posted by spotless_camera

For example, there may not be any dark areas that are exactly as dark as I want the highlights to be bright... so if I take an average, the overall tonality of the scene is wrong.

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Yep, this is the problem with metering methodologies which rely on averaging - they only work with average scenes...or with emulsions which have a huge margin for error...

I would just forget about averaging, and just place the elements which you can meter where you need them - and if they won't fit where you want them then you need to get the grad filters out, or walk away.

In practical terms what you probably need to do is decide what the shadow areas are that you need to be able to see decent detail in, and place them at, say, -1EV. If there isn't anything in the scene like that, then find a shadow you want to be just approaching full black and put it at -2. Or, find a midtone (like a side of a key building in open shade or dusk light) and put it at 0EV. Then start to meter the bright stuff in the scene - lit sides of buildings, windows, water reflections, sky etc. If the sky is coming in at +4EV then you know you need to bring it down to somewhere in the +1EV region with a grad if you want to see colour/detail there. If you then still have shadow areas metering at -5EV then you have to accept these are going to be fully black, or bring them up with more exposure and grad everything else down.

Or, you might meter a cityscape at dusk and find that all your concrete buildings will sit happily at -1EV or 0EV and the dark cloudy sky falls naturally at +1, happy days, you can just expose at 0EV and not need any grads and not even need a +2 highlight to meter, unless you want to sky to look like +2, which you probably wont. Apologies if none of this makes sense, it's easier to explain verbally than write down...

It is worth building up a mental checklist of what sort of values you need certain things at to always refer to, for the stuff you shoot. Like for me I almost always want clear blue skies at +1, rocks under an overcast sky or green grass in the shade at 0, sunlit rocks or sidelit green grass at +1, caucasian faces at +1 and so forth.

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Originally Posted by spotless_camera

E6 (reversal/transparency/slide) films like Velvia and Provia are notoriously fickle about exposure. This makes metering technique and a well calibrated spot meter crucial.

For landscapes, a spot meter and Zone System style methods work wonders. Put your brightest highlights (that need to keep detail) at +2 and your shadows at -2 or -2.5, and you're good to go.

However, while landscapes usually offer broad swathes of gentle gradients to place as shadows or highlights, the same is not true when you start shooting architecture and cityscapes. In a built or urban environment, bright highlights are often just pinpoints... while twilight can make your shadows too dark to meter.

Worst of all, the perfect light is fleeting, often lasting a few minutes at most. There is no time for bracketing, even if you could afford to do so.

What technique do you use for getting your exposure spot on in these difficult conditions?

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I find that its best to shoot a lot when you're are working in transitional light, and bracketing as well. There's a 20-30 minute window of time to work and a large variety of "perfect" moments depending on the architecture/environment/location. The bracketing is as much about exposure as it is about aesthetics as well - that is- if you take a bracket (+1, meter, -1,) all three can work just fine but give different feel for the overall image.

When I was shooting film I'd establish my base exposure (with an incident meter and proof it with polaroid) and shoot a 3 or 5 frame bracket in 1/2 stops - I would do this 3 times- early dusk, mid disk, an late dusk/full dark. This will give you a full range of aesthetic choices. Example links below:

late dusk: https://www.brucekatzphoto.com/galle...meoAlbumID=#/0

Early dusk: https://www.brucekatzphoto.com/galle...eoAlbumID=#/18

Mid dusk: https://www.brucekatzphoto.com/galle...eoAlbumID=#/17

There are lots of other examples here if you care to scroll around - the secret is to shoot a lot over the transition from early to late.

Bracketing, but I do realise that this method could be very costly when shooting Colour Transparency Sheet Film...

I'm inclined to agree with Alan Klein, that the easiest approach is to use a digital camera to determine exposure. In tricky lighting situations like this, the old approach would be to take a Polaroid, but digital now works as well, or better. Color transparency film is just too expensive to be doing bracketing experiments. You don't need anything fancy in terms of a digital camera. Something older should work just fine, and will probably be far cheaper than a good spot meter. It will also probably be faster than taking multiple readings with a spot meter.

The other issue with this type of photography is that everyone has a different opinion about what looks "good". Some people may prefer a darker image, and others something much lighter. You need to discover what suits your own individual taste. You might want to do some experiments with 35mm transparency film, and shoot a variety of twilight scenes with bracketed exposures. Record your exposure settings, and decide which ones you prefer. When you next go out to shoot large format, you can refer to your exposure table for the desired "look".

Using a digital camera: I've tried that, of course. You do need to convert the ISO of the camera (which has a minimum value of 125 for Canons) to the value of the film you are using. That takes a little thinking (which can lead to mistakes) but is not really a problem.

A bigger problem is that the ISO rating of digital cameras is not always entirely accurate. It is probably accurate enough for negative films (black and white or color). With E6 (reversal) films, however, extremely high accuracy is needed. Plus, using a digital camera feels like cheating!

For this composition (double exposure) I used 2 exposure readings on 6x7 Velvia. The first was to catch the alpenglow on the downtown (Market and Van Ness in San Francisco) and the second for the traffic and street lights after darkness had descended:

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