Advantages of Sinar Shutter f4 v f5.6

[Colin D]

I'm about to buy a Sinar Shutter for my Horseman which is on a plane somewhere over the Pacific hopefully avoiding any cyclones. Is there any substantial benefit in the f4 over the f5.6?

I have two barrel lenses, Dynar 180mm & Ross Xpress 305mm, but may get others later to use for still life and protraits.

Any thoughts.

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

The f4 version allows you to use f4 or faster DB mounted lenses like a 90mm f4.5 at full aperture. It offers no advantage for barrel lenses as the opening is the same size as the f5.6 version.

[Colin D]

Thanks Jason, excuse my ignorance, DB mounted lenses, I believe they are Sinar but what does DB stand for?

[pierre506]

Sinar DB lens only has aperture but without shutter & aperture control. So it needs Sinar Auto shutter.
Your barrel lenses just need the shutter function of Sinar Auto shutter. Don't care of F4 or F5.6, please. F5.6's may be cheaper.

[Bernice Loui]

The f4 Sinar shutters tend to sell for a bit more even when they are basically the same as the f5.6 shutter. The f4 indicator shutters are less common than the f5.6.
The indicator is different for f4 Sinar DB lenses. If you're using this shutter with barrel lenses, there is no functional difference.


Bernice


I'm about to buy a Sinar Shutter for my Horseman which is on a plane somewhere over the Pacific hopefully avoiding any cyclones. Is there any substantial benefit in the f4 over the f5.6?

I have two barrel lenses, Dynar 180mm & Ross Xpress 305mm, but may get others later to use for still life and protraits.

Any thoughts.

[Phil Hudson]

I believe that DB is an abbreviation for the German word "Druckblende" - meaning in this context something like "shutter and aperture unit".......

[Armin Seeholzer]

for the German word "Druckblende" - meaning in this context something like "shutter and aperture unit".......

It means just the f - stop mechanismen and in german it is as you stated Druckblende which would sound pressure f- stop
If its a DBM the M stands for manual because there are lenses which go up to f 64 but the sinar shutter control only goes up to 45 so for f 64 you have to take it by the lens ring up to f 64.

Cheers Armin

[Steven Tribe]

The sinar/copal shutter is a brilliant solution for being able to use character barrel lenses.

You might look for the older "green" type - made for the Norma model - which is minus the side aperture adjustment device which just adds extra weight.
They are super on tailboard type cameras too, where the front standard and end bellows can be fixed up with fixing devices.

[Larry Gebhardt]

What cameras can the Sinar Shutters be mounted on? I always assumed it was just Sinars, but it sounds like Horseman as well?

[Ken Lee]

DB-Mounted lenses work directly with the Sinar Shutter. They hook up automatically. You set the aperture, not on the lens, but on a large dial at the side of the shutter. With DB-mounted lenses, you can operate everything from behind the camera: there is no need to walk to the front to close or open anything. No need to cock the shutter, because it is self-cocking. You can preview depth of field by gently squeezing the cable release: Otherwise, the lens stays wide open for best focus and viewing.

That being said, using barrel mounted lenses with a Sinar shutter is wonderful. From 1/60 down to 8 seconds, accurately timed. Just remember that with barrel-mounted lenses, the shutter needs to be set at the widest aperture or it won't fire. If you get yours and wonder why it's not working, that's probably the reason. I've stumbled over this too many times to admit.

You've opened the door to experimenting with a wider variety of more-affordable lenses: not only the old softies but also really sharp ones like APO Nikors, Ronars, etc. and they all have many-bladed apertures.

[cowanw]

What cameras can the Sinar Shutters be mounted on? I always assumed it was just Sinars, but it sounds like Horseman as well?
With an appropriate adaptor, I expect any camera could have a Sinar shutter mounted.

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

...Just remember that with barrel-mounted lenses, the shutter needs to be set at the widest aperture or it won't fire. If you get yours and wonder why it's not working, that's probably the reason. I've stumbled over this too many times to admit...

Really? Neither of my Sinar shutters do that, they both function fine with barrel lenses regardless of where the aperture selection dial is set.

[Ken Lee]

Maybe I have a "lemon".

[Scott Walker]

Really? Neither of my Sinar shutters do that, they both function fine with barrel lenses regardless of where the aperture selection dial is set.

I think it has something to do with the pin in the shutter that actuates the lens aperture. If the pin is not allowed to move freely the shutter will only fire if left in the wide open position, which is exactly what happens if you use a regular sinar board on the Auto Shutter. If you use a board that does not interfere with the pin then you can have the aperture set at what ever you want and the shutter will fire because the pin is allowed to move to where ever it needs to to set the DB mounted lens aperture.

[Ken Lee]

Thanks - That explains things perfectly !

[Bernice Loui]

Got a LOT of barrel lenses mounted on Sinar boards used with the Sinar shutter. The back of the lens must clear that moving pin on the shutter or it will get stuck. Many times this means making a spacer to put the back of the lens flush with the back surface of the Sinar lens board.

I'll post examples of these mounting collars if interested.


Bernice



I think it has something to do with the pin in the shutter that actuates the lens aperture. If the pin is not allowed to move freely the shutter will only fire if left in the wide open position, which is exactly what happens if you use a regular sinar board on the Auto Shutter. If you use a board that does not interfere with the pin then you can have the aperture set at what ever you want and the shutter will fire because the pin is allowed to move to where ever it needs to to set the DB mounted lens aperture.

[Bernice Loui]

Mostly true.. depending on the size of the front standard. It is possible to install the Sinar frame in place of the orginal frame on the target Sinar install camera.

This requires changing the front end of the bellows and using Sinar lens boards.

IMO, this a really good way to use barrel lenses and gets the user out of the expense of mounting lenses into shutters.


Bernice


With an appropriate adaptor, I expect any camera could have a Sinar shutter mounted.

[Ken Lee]

Another advantage is that you can make lens boards out of cardboard and duct tape or gaffer's tape.

I mounted a 150mm APO Nikor on a Technika-shaped piece of card board (the from the bottom of a film box ?) a few years back just to see how good the lens is and examine its blur rendition. It's still mounted that way.

For the record, it's my smallest and cheapest lens, but nasty sharp with lovely blur. Most of the time it can be used in place of a shutter-mounted Sironar-S, especially when shooting close.

[Colin D]

Thanks guys for the info, but to be clear, for me at least, I have a Horseman 450 EMII (Ken, the Technika III has been made redundant) that the shutter will be used on, which I have bought an adaptor for to use my Linhof boards ,with lenses already mounted, on the camera. Someone suggested a Norma shutter, is there anything I need to be aware of when buying the shutter for my Horseman to Linhof adaptor board? I suppose what I'm saying is I won't be using Sinar boards for my lenses, does that make a difference?

[Colin D]

DB-Mounted lenses work directly with the Sinar Shutter. They hook up automatically. You set the aperture, not on the lens, but on a large dial at the side of the shutter. With DB-mounted lenses, you can operate everything from behind the camera: there is no need to walk to the front to close or open anything. No need to cock the shutter, because it is self-cocking. You can preview depth of field by gently squeezing the cable release: Otherwise, the lens stays wide open for best focus and viewing.

That being said, using barrel mounted lenses with a Sinar shutter is wonderful. From 1/60 down to 8 seconds, accurately timed. Just remember that with barrel-mounted lenses, the shutter needs to be set at the widest aperture or it won't fire. If you get yours and wonder why it's not working, that's probably the reason. I've stumbled over this too many times to admit.

You've opened the door to experimenting with a wider variety of more-affordable lenses: not only the old softies but also really sharp ones like APO Nikors, Ronars, etc. and they all have many-bladed apertures.

G'day Ken, Yes looking forward to using the old lenses with a shutter now.