Product Sponsorship: What Is the Standard?

[Ari]

Excuse my poorly worded title; here's what I mean:

I am in a position for one or two manufacturers, let's say "Film Company A" and "Camera Company B", to offer me sponsorship.
This means that I will use their products, and publicize the benefits of their products in the real world, in exchange for equipment.

I'd really appreciate any advice from somebody who has done this before, namely:

What should be the specifics of such an arrangement?
What should I agree to, or not agree to?
What is expected of me, and what should I expect from company A and/or B?

Thanks in advance, and sorry for providing few details.

[BrianShaw]

You might benefit from a good lawyer who specializes in these kind of celebrity endorsement issues!

[Ari]

No lawyer :);
I'm no celebrity, just a wily photographer trying to save a few bucks.

[BrianShaw]

In that case... and I have never done this myself but see others doing such things in non-photographic fields...

Start by making a list of what your heart want to do and get. Be generous... very generous in favor of yourself. Over-estimate everything by 200 or 300%. Present your list of demands. Stand firm right up to the minute before they tell you to get out of their sight, and then admit that you'll negotiate. Throw them a few bones like "exclusive rights", or transfer of copyright. Have clauses that gets you huge amounts of film and gear... with no strings attached, but be ready to "negotiate" by returning gear upon completion of usage. Also put in your list of demands full compensation for all travel, including 5-star hotels and fancy cars, but be prepared to negotiate to the GSA per-diem schedule (or the Canadian equivelent).

In short... don't sell yourself short and don't set yourself up to be their "whore". Kee p up the image and attitude that they don't deserve you but you'll "lower yourself" to "help them out".

Although exagerated... this is the kind of contractual negotiations I see in non-photographic fields. I don't like them but "he who asks, gets"... and that is a fact.

Good luck!

[Jody_S]

This seems fairly routine now-a-days, what with 99% of 'advertising' being word of mouth, internet, and companies can't (openly) pay directly to get favorable 'user reviews'. They often try anyway, it's just that those paid-for reviews are so transparent that we ignore them (eg, hi-fi audio gear). I don't know what they're asking of you, just don't promise to do anything that you feel is dishonest, and you shouldn't have to worry about your reputation. Obviously, they're not going to offer something for nothing, they expect the relationship to be profitable in the narrow sense.

[Jac@stafford.net]

You don't even know the questions to ask.
Get a lawyer.

[Ari]

They haven't asked anything yet, at least nothing specific.
I see a straight merchandise/goods for promotion type of deal.

It is my proposal, so I want to offer something tangible, but nothing that will eat up huge chunks of time; I'm busy.
A lawyer? No thanks, again; I can tie my own shoes, thank you.

I'm sure I'm over-thinking this, but I wanted to hear from anyone else with this kind of experience.
I don't doubt it will be a pleasurable and profitable one, so I just want to avoid any pitfalls.

[BrianShaw]

I don't think you are over-thinking at all. What I would be thinking getting clarity about is the following: ownership of the gear (will it be loan, lease, or gift) and ownership/usage of the resulting images (yours or theirs via "work for hire")... and maybe some thought about differential compensation depending on type/extent of usage.

[Kirk Gittings]

Good for the ego, but.......I used to do that frequently maybe 20 years ago for equipment and film manufacturers mainly Calumet, Polaroid and Kodak. In my case I found it very conflicting morally and the articles/reports time consuming and distracting or under compensated for the amount of work or in the case of using images made with the equip/film that the trade off was under compensated. In any event I ultimately decided that I personally was better off concentrating on my dual career of an artist and commercial photographer and just paying for stuff.

[bdkphoto]

This would be a good place to pose the question- http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ASMPproAdvice/

I know many of the folks running the discussion have sponsorship deals of one sort or another, you should get some current idea of what's up. Unless you are at the top of the food chain the benefits are modest.

Good luck.

[Ari]

Thanks, guys, especially to Brian, Kirk and Bruce; just what I was looking for.

[Kirk Gittings]

Good luck.

[Ari]

Good luck.

Thank you.

[Pawlowski6132]

What did they propose? Why don't you start with that.

[Ari]

I can't say yet, but I initiated the proposal.
I just want to make sure I don't overlook anything, and hope that someone with experience in this can help me avoid any error.

[brian mcweeney]

I agree with Pawlowski. I find that in negotiations it's best see what the other side is offering first, then if it's better than what you thought it would be, great! If it's worse than you thought be ready to make a counteroffer.

[Daniel Stone]

Ari,

Just dont ask for too much $$$-wise, especially since it could cause them to think about raising prices on us "non-sponsored folk", again ;)

-Dan

[Ari]

Ha! I wasn't pitching a deal for money, just equipment, so prices should remain stable :)

[Pawlowski6132]

I agree with Pawlowski. I find that in negotiations it's best see what the other side is offering first, then if it's better than what you thought it would be, great! If it's worse than you thought be ready to make a counteroffer.

Yup. Never bargain against yourself.

[Bob Salomon]

Ha! I wasn't pitching a deal for money, just equipment, so prices should remain stable :)

Ari,

We represent:
Ansmann, Braun, BRNO, Berlebach, Boblbee, Kaiser, Linhof, Heliopan, Novoflex, Rodenstock, Vue-All, Wista, Tetenal, Novacon, Gepe, Giotto and I may have missed a line or two this early.

Do you have any idea of how many proposals we get monthly for sponsorship and for free samples for testing/reviewing on blogs?

We have take the approach that we do not participate in sponsorships or free samples (of products of value). If we did we would be broke.

[Ari]

Agreed, Bob; is it even worth it for HP to sponsor, occasionally, someone who has a very high profile or someone who can be quite influential?

Or have you found that the gift of a lens or tripod to Famous Photographer just isn't worth the few sales that it could generate?

[Pfiltz]

What should be the specifics of such an arrangement?
What should I agree to, or not agree to?
What is expected of me, and what should I expect from company A and/or B?



I was sponsored by a Lighting Company, mainly studio strobes and modifiers. They gave me a 3K credit to buy what ever I wanted. I was a very active member on their site, and posted my images on it, along with verbiage as to what combination(s) of lighting I used. That's all they requested of me. Along with their forum, I was active on other photography forums as well, and I always posted images along with the same details with regard to lighting and lighting modifiers.

[Ari]

I was sponsored by a Lighting Company, mainly studio strobes and modifiers. They gave me a 3K credit to buy what ever I wanted. I was a very active member on their site, and posted my images on it, along with verbiage as to what combination(s) of lighting I used. That's all they requested of me. Along with their forum, I was active on other photography forums as well, and I always posted images along with the same details with regard to lighting and lighting modifiers.

Thank you, that's exactly what I was looking for.

[jp]

Some people who do workshops get some sponsorship. If you've attended workshops, you might check with those instructors to see how they do it.

[Joseph Dickerson]

Ari,

A couple of things you might want to be wary of...exclusivity, are you required by the agreement to only use a certain brand, and, who owns the rights to the images taken with the comped gear.

These could easily lock you into a difficult situation.

JD

[Bob Salomon]

Agreed, Bob; is it even worth it for HP to sponsor, occasionally, someone who has a very high profile or someone who can be quite influential?

Or have you found that the gift of a lens or tripod to Famous Photographer just isn't worth the few sales that it could generate?

Stephen Wilkes, John Sexton, Bruce Barnbaum, among many others use our cameras and lenses (not all use both), they all buy their equipment.
Naturally we are more then happy to help them, we arranged for Glazers to sell John his Technika 2000 when it came out and Stephen Wilkes buys his stuff from a very small retailer on Long Island but we are happy to have him come and try it at our office before he does a job. The last time was the Friday before the innauguration when he bought a new digital Rodenstock lens to use for his assignment shooting a day to night scene with it of the swearing in ceremony.

We would do the same for any of you as well. But donate? No, it would bankrupt us in no time at all. We have to buy the stuff we represent. And for everyone that uses a Canon there is someone else, just as famous, with a Leica or a Nikon or something else.

Just because Bruce Davidson and Mary Ellen Mark own Linhofs does not mean that it is the perfect camera for someone else, although we do feel that it is!

[Ari]

Thanks, Joseph; right now, images rights are not even on the table, and that would be a deal-breaker for me anyway.

Bob, thanks for the clarification, I appreciate it.

[Kirk Gittings]

Bob, back many years ago, like 93 or something while on a NEA grant, I worked a deal with Calumet (I think they approached me but I don't remember really) where I was to borrow and test a new 4x5 rail camera (a rebranded Cambo I think) and write about it. They also gave me the pick of any of their lenses, Calumet and any others and a carrying case and tripod. I think I got 5 lenses. They let me borrow all this equipment for 2.5 years. I wrote two articles for them. At the end of it they gave me the opportunity to buy any of the borrowed equipment at their cost. I think I bought 2 or three of the lenses. I presume the rest of the equipment was sold used. It was all in near mint condition at the end.

Calumet bent over backwards on that project and the two articles were not that much work. It was a good partnership. The only hassle was that ideally I would rather have had a high end field camera rather than lugging around a heavy rail camera.......but the rail camera was what they needed to promote.

The best part of the deal was an unlimited supply of Polaroids and "Fujiroids" (Fuji transparency readytloads in Polaroid sleeves) which although the film was coming directly from Polaroid "Artist Support Program"-Calumet made the arrangements for me. That saved me a ton of money.

[BrianShaw]

That sounds like a very nice arrangement you had!

[Kirk Gittings]

Thanks. It was.

[ImSoNegative]

brett weston probably never had to buy a camera, lens, or film his entire career, i was talking to a fellow that knew brett and he told me that calumet (who the fellow i was talking to at the time was working for) gave brett a c1 and a complete set of lenses, i couldnt imagine:p good luck Ari hope everything works out.

[Jody_S]

When I was a young teenager, I often purchased the mag Photo (Paris, France), they had an article on Brett Weston showcasing a few of his prints including of course the trees along the canal, with the explanation that he had worked out a deal with I forget which manufacturer for an unlimited supply of photo paper for 1 year. He spent the year in the darkroom reprinting his entire catalog. At the time I didn't know what a LF camera was (I was perhaps 13 or 14?), but I certainly knew what 1 year's worth of photo paper was.

[Ari]

brett weston probably never had to buy a camera, lens, or film his entire career, i was talking to a fellow that knew brett and he told me that calumet (who the fellow i was talking to at the time was working for) gave brett a c1 and a complete set of lenses, i couldnt imagine:p good luck Ari hope everything works out.

Why, thank you very much, John.

[Michael_4514]

Please don't get a lawyer. We make so much more money cleaning up the messes that people get themselves into on their own.

Seriously, you probably don't need a lawyer to help you negotiate your deal unless we're talking major dollars, but if you're going to sign something, it's probably a good idea to have a competent lawyer look at it before you do.

[Ari]

No worries there; I've lived this long without them, and I'm doing ok.
Thank you, Michael.

Now, how much do I owe you for that advice? :)

[BrianShaw]

That was probably about $178 worth!