Sinar Shutter Release Cable Flash Engineering Project

[Richard Raymond]

Folks,
Picking up on previous threads I thought that I would try making one of these cables. I have a couple of cables from Sinar but the idea of a open flash engineering effort is interesting.
From a technical specs side this is what I know:
The total throw of the cable from the end of the attachment piece to its maximum distance is 45mm measured with a certified steel ruler.
The tip of the cable is 2mm in diameter.
The cable is 1mm in diameter.
The attachment piece has a standard metric M4-70 thread which I verified by attaching a M4-70 nut to the cable and a M4-70 bolt to the shutter.

My plan is to first engineer the attachment piece. I plan to get some standard stiff 5mm OD (outside diameter) and 4mm OD plastic tubing. I don't know which size will be best when I cut the threads. It will be best if I can find something with an ID (inside diameter) smaller than 2mm to act as a stopper for the cable. I will get in touch with US Plastics as a start to see if they can source some different wall thicknesses and tube stiffnesses. Once I get the samples I will use a metric die to cut the M4-70 thread in the end of the tubing. By starting with a tube I eliminate having to drill a hole in a piece of plastic for the cable.
The next step will be to work on the cable. My preference here is a semi-flexible solid wire where I can peen over the end to get the 2mm sizing.
Anyway, I will keep you informed. Any help or ideas gladly accepted :)
Regards,
Ric

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

I have been thinking about making a Sinar shutter flash plug using a 3D printer to create the mount and the bottom plug then using copper for the contacts. I had great results with a 3D printer making the base for the levels on Norma cameras, and figured this was the next step. I will use this thread to update. Please let us know how your work progresses.

[Richard Raymond]

Folks,
Quick first start on adapter. I went to the local big box store and bought a couple of brass hose barb adapters. They were 1/8 in ID x 1/4 inch MIP (3mm x 8mm). I then quickly cut the threads in the barb end of the adapter first cutting an M5-1. thread and then an M4-.7 thread. I tested this first with a standard M4-.7 nut (which also smoothed the threads a little), washed the adapter to clean off any remaining particles and then screwed it into the Sinar Shutter. So this part works. Cost of the brass adapter was $2.39 USD (about 1.7 Euros) I will also try it with some plastic and nylon adapters once they arrive. The next step is to work on the cable. Anyone with ideas on a stiff wire?
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[Richard Raymond]

After staring at the adapter for a while and thinking about the wire I have decided that the easiest approach is to use a standard shutter release cable. Therefore my next step is to tap the rear of the adapter to an M3-.5 thread. I think that the standard thread on a cable is tapered from M2.5-.5 to M3.5-.5 so that the male thread jams into the female connector. Once I do that I just have to figure out the best way to increase the throw of the standard cable by 45mm.

[patrickjames]

If you are looking for wire for your project you could try brake wire with it's housing from a bicycle. It is pretty cheap and stiff. If it is too thick, a derailleur cable is a little lighter.

[Sevo]

If you are looking for wire for your project you could try brake wire with it's housing from a bicycle. It is pretty cheap and stiff. If it is too thick, a derailleur cable is a little lighter.

I've tried that as a replacement for the (pushing) locking cable on a studio stand. No, it will not do - brake and derailleur cable is intended for a pulling force, it will crumple up inside its housing when you try to push.

Schreck (http://www.gebr-schreck.com/) should be able to supply more suitable parts - perhaps they might even do a complete Sinar/Copal shutter release to order.

[Ramiro Elena]

This sounds interesting. I broke mine and kept the parts. I can provide close ups of the mechanism and cables aswell as measuments in case you need them.

[Richard Raymond]

Ramiro,
Thanks for the offer. The pictures will be very useful. The big problem with the cable is to increase the travel distance (throw) of the cable. Regular cables travel about 1/2 as far as needed. When I look at the construction of the cable it appears that the top part has a stiffer wire and a spring for the return. But I will have to take a cable apart to see how the connections of the various wires work. I think that I have to increase the length of this thicker top section and probably increase the length of the compression spring ... or maybe just add a second compression spring to this section. Depending on the cable there may be a second spring at the attachment end as well.
I am making a lot of different trials with this puzzle. The adapter piece is OK but heavy. My current thought is that maybe I can cut new M4 threads directly into the tip of the cable release. Then we will just have to figure out how to lengthen the throw. This approach would also reduce the weight and we would not have a separate part floating around to get lost. :) I will order up a few cables and take them apart to see what I can learn.

[Richard Raymond]

Cut the M4 thread in the shutter release cable tip and that attaches ok. Because the thread is larger than the current threads on the cable it does not interfere with using the cable on regular shutters. I should have done this first I guess but ... I thought of the hard way first :)
Note: cutting the threads will be easier in cables that have a long connection end because that will give you a place to hold the tip with a small vice or pliers while cutting the threads.
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Now off to dissect a cable and try to figure out how to do that part. Hopefully I can quickly do it the hard way a few times so that I can figure out the easy way before the weekend.

[DrTang]

If you are looking for wire for your project you could try brake wire with it's housing from a bicycle. It is pretty cheap and stiff. If it is too thick, a derailleur cable is a little lighter.


auto parts stores carry a push/pull cable for hood releases and stuff like that - it's pretty stout and might just work

[pierre506]

There're some pix who made the DIY Sinar Auto shutter release in China.
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[pierre506]

More pix.
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[pierre506]

It's my work.
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[Scott Walker]

It's my work.
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Nicely done, are you selling these?

[Ramiro Elena]

Better yet, is there a tutorial for making these?

[pierre506]

Nicely done, are you selling these?

Dear Scott, my work is not for sell. But the better one above someone else made is for sell. It's about $110. I can contact him if you are still interesting about it.

[pierre506]

Better yet, is there a tutorial for making these?

Dear Ramiro,
I will show it thru drawing later 'cause it's Chinese new year festival now.

[Steven Tribe]

Back from a foreign break, I discover more progress in this "search for a simple replacement"!

My interest is that, although I have the necessary quantity of copal/sinar shutters/releases - I don't have something that is suitable for field work.
My 18x24cm tailboard camera is adapted for copal/sinar shutters, but packing the long stiff release for travel is a nightmare. At locations, it is also an item which I have nearly forgotten on at least a half dozen occasions!
I have made a couple of short releases using 2 pieces of brass tubing about 6cms long where one fits inside the other. The central tube has been reinforced at the "pushing end" with a long steel nail inserted. I realised it was 4M thread - but was not sure about whether it was thread 0.75 or 0.70M. Certainly none of the dyes I have made the right thread. Will now continue the project once I get hold of the right Dye!

These would only cost a few dollars - but are only designed to be a simple solution for field use - or as a reserve. A longer cable would be more relaxing for studio use.

[pierre506]

That's the pic which could explain the main diffence between Sinar Auto Shutter release & normal one.
A: longest thread of Sinar release about 4cm ( 4cm is really enough for the shutter according to my observation)
B: longest thread of normal release about 1cm to 2cm
C: difference
Hoping you can understand what I mean.
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[pierre506]

Front head of my Release for Sinar shutter:
D: core of bike's brake wire
E: leather of bike's brake wire
F: fixed points for E and G
G: 7cm long brass tube from a wasted airconditioner
H: 6cm long welding rod
I: normal release front head

D & H should be welding together
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[Steven Tribe]

I have finished my "development work" for a new cheap D-I-Y cable release which is made up of 4 parts.

It is basically a "travel" set - not designed for Studio work where a longer bent cable is to prefered.

There is no internal spring as the internal spring is more than sufficient - even if there is some friction in the release.

The set consists of a sleeve made from a short length of "copper" type automotive brake connection. The internal "driving rod" is a hollow brass tube. The Pushing end is reinforced with a long steel nail, with a small head which ensures good contact inside as well as increasing the diameter so the rod doesn't fall out of the sleeve. The pressure surface is just a red (matches the control thingees on the sinar/copal) large drawing pin!

You will note that the external diameter of the brake tube matches quite closely to the original black metal Copal connection (4.75mm compared with 5mm).
The thread was cut with the M4 0.70 die. I did reduce the diameter with handtools to get a good start to the thread cutting. This alloy is pretty strong but is easy to thread. Note that if there is a weakness, this will show up in the thread cutting as the forces are much greater than in ordinary screwing in and out of the shutter. I originally began with a slightly thinner brass tube as the sleeve and this was not a success, as the thread sheared after a few turns.

[pierre506]

Dear Steven, it's an easiest way.
I'd been considering your idea long ago. But I gave it up 'cause I found that I couldn't avoid the vibration when pressing the release.
And the internal spring is needed.

[Steven Tribe]

Having just seen another "Incomplete sinar/copal shutter - that is, apparently minus the essential release" sold for far too much on e**y, I came back to this thread!

Pierre, in my view, the spring built into the cable release is not essential to the well functioning of the shutter. I can see (or hear) no difference between the short DIT release and the "proper" sinar/copal releases - I have both versions of the shutter and cable (norma and later).

I can understand that the cable spring may a dampening effect on the violence of the shutter spring "recoil" - but I can't see any danger - except for slightly increased loading on the main spring when it hits the stop. The friction of the inner cable in the sheath can be increased by a slight bend in the sheath- or even by the judicious of one's thumb in the return cycle which will have the same effect as the spring.

I think the spring in the cable was put there to make sure the inner cable was always flush with the end of the screw thread to make engagement in the shutter female thread bungleproof.