Speed flashbulb system, versus electronic flash...

[Dean Taylor]

hello

Please enlighten: is there any reason why a Speed owner would want to purchase/use the original flashbulb lighting device--versus buying an electronic flash? Are the bulbs they use readily available?

thank you!

Dean

[SpeedGraphicMan]

hello

Please enlighten: is there any reason why a Speed owner would want to purchase/use the original flashbulb lighting device--versus buying an electronic flash? Are the bulbs they use readily available?

thank you!

Dean

Several reasons...

1. High Guide Number per bulb than most inexpensive portable flash units.
2. Nostalgia
3. It is just so damn cool!

Flashbulbs are still readily available, but pricey! (Roughly $30 US a dozen).
If you intend to shoot a lot of flash pictures you might be better off getting an older Norman 200B.

But in reality you are not a real Speed Graphic user unless you own a Flashbulb unit!

[Jac@stafford.net]

I love using flashbulbs. I was very lucky to acquire many cases of them, from #5 to Edison/Mazda base, and even some Mazda 75 bulbs (that scare the hell out of me), and I have dozens of flash units, cords, relays, slaves, and even flashes that use no battery.

The light is soft. With a leaf shutter you can flash fill at 30 feet in daylight. Heck, you can light a forest. Stick a bunch of them on pic stands with slaves and you can light an auditorium. If you get into this, then find some good old books on bulb flash. There are some tricks to be learned, especially with multiple bulb setups.

Flashbulbs are still made in Ireland by http://www.meggaflash.com/
I would not buy from Cress Photo. Very expensive.

[Neal Chaves]

A Press 25 bulb has the same output as 1200WS of electronic flash. You can measure the exposure from a bulb with an electronic flash meter that has adjustable shutter speeds and the ability to connect a sync cord like the Quantum Calcuflash II. Just set the meter shutter speed to 1/15 so you measure the full output of the bulb.

[Don Dudenbostel]

When my dad gave me my Crown Graphic 4x5 in 1964 bulbs were the only logical way. I started my professional career in 68 and used bulbs almost exclusively. Even working for Union Carbide as an industrial photographer in the mid 70's we still used super speeds and bulbs. Up into the early 80's I used bulbs to light large interiors. You cant get this level of illumination with strobes without a ton of lighting. A dozen #3 bulbs would put out more light than the 40k eat seconds I used to carry on big jobs.

I'm actually thinking of recreating some Weegee style images using my crown graphic and bulbs.

Take care not to accidentally discharge one while putting it in the flash. I e done that and it burns bad. That's what the sleeve is for, to protect your fingers.

Check the work of O Winston Link. It's all lit eigh bulbs. I actually have a #11 signed by him.

[Jac@stafford.net]

A Press 25 bulb has the same output as 1200WS of electronic flash. You can measure the exposure from a bulb with an electronic flash meter that has adjustable shutter speeds and the ability to connect a sync cord like the Quantum Calcuflash II. Just set the meter shutter speed to 1/15 so you measure the full output of the bulb.

Many LF shutters have a setting for bulbs - M, and some even have two different settings for bulbs. Generally, the M setting gives a 20 millisecond shutter delay so the flash is rising to peak intensity when the shutter opens.

Here is a funky flash (http://www.digoliardi.net/triflash/triflash002.jpg) unit I put together. It uses three big bulbs and requires no batteries because the lower part of the unit is a magneto which also has an actuator for a leaf shutter.

Here is a PDF of just a few boxes of bulbs (http://www.digoliardi.net/FLASHBULB_BOXES.pdf) which show the guide numbers to determine F-stop/distance and shutter speed. Note that not all film speeds are ASA. :(

A flash bulb signed by O. Winston Link is so cool!

[premortho]

I use Wabash/Sylvania Press 25s. I only use them occasionaly, because I normally am a natural light photographer. In my "studio", I use photofloods in hardware store reflecters. I find 25s on e-bay, and normally find them (with looking) for a dollar each. I would only buy an electronic flash if I took a lot of flash pictures. It is next to impossible to find an affordable zap flash as powerful as a 25 bulb. When I don't need the power of a 25, I use a 25B (blue). In ye olden days, I set my Speed Graphic at 12 feet, lens at f32, a 25th of a second and I was good from 8 feet to 25 feet. It was great for newspaper work.

[DrTang]

it's cool looking

[Jac@stafford.net]

[...]In ye olden days, I set my Speed Graphic at 12 feet, lens at f32, a 25th of a second and I was good from 8 feet to 25 feet. It was great for newspaper work.

You must go back farther than I do!

You might appreciate how I got into bulbs. One day a fellow driving a VW Karmann Ghia stopped by my house because he saw my Bugs in the drive ('58 and '72). He asked if I had parts. He was looking for a distributor. I had a good spare. He asked if I was into trading for something and I said, "Maybe some photography equipment". He asked, "Old fashion stuff?"

Then he said, "Well, I just bought old One Shot Kelley (http://www.winonadailynews.com/news/local/article_0c3ce11a-e71f-11e0-bcc9-001cc4c002e0.html)'s house. (One Shot had died the year before). "He left big cases of bulbs in the basement." We traded. A huge lot of #6 and #11 bulbs, 250-watt incandescent bulbs and a case of enlarging bulbs. That's the kind of luck I rarely find.


DrTang: it's cool looking

I can make a few more. Got lots of parts!

[adelorenzo]

Please enlighten: is there any reason why a Speed owner would want to purchase/use the original flashbulb lighting device--versus buying an electronic flash?

One word: Lightsaber (http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/07/star-wars-lightsaber-is-a-hacked-flashgun-battery-pack/)

[Dean Taylor]

thank you, one and all!

to recap: the consensus has it that the flashbulb system has much to recommend. Great--I'm sold!

However, before I make the flash purchase, is it going to be a tedious search to locate a resource--e.g., a retailer?

thank you!

[Jac@stafford.net]

One word: Lightsaber (http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/07/star-wars-lightsaber-is-a-hacked-flashgun-battery-pack/)

I have dozens of those.
.

[Jac@stafford.net]

thank you, one and all!

to recap: the consensus has it that the flashbulb system has much to recommend. Great--I'm sold!

However, before I make the flash purchase, is it going to be a tedious search to locate a resource--e.g., a retailer?

As I wrote earlier, the retailers are of two kinds - Megaflash of Ireland who sell new stock and some speculators who sell old bulbs at exorbitant prices. I will not mention the later.

The big auction site is still the best source for old flash bulbs. Be assured that as strange as it seems, old flash bulbs are for the most part still good!

Browse that big auction site for completed sales and be careful. It is amazing how over-priced many are.

[premortho]

It's possible I started before you did. I started in 1947. I thought electronic flash would be the berrys when it came out. I used it once on an assignment. With batteries it weighed about 45 pounds. A dozen flashbulbs and a flashgun weighed about 7 pounds. Since then they've miniaturized the whole electronic flash oufit, but they don't put out a lot of light. The Strobenar unit the newspaper had was about equal to a Press 25. But the weight and size of the outfit cut down on my mobility too much in newspaper work, so I went back to bulbs. We used filmpacks, Super Plenachrome, and Super-pan Press. A film pack was much faster than the crank wind used on most 2 1/4 square cameras of the day. Even 35s couldn't keep up until they put the lever wind mechanism on them.
You must go back farther than I do!

You might appreciate how I got into bulbs. One day a fellow driving a VW Karmann Ghia stopped by my house because he saw my Bugs in the drive ('58 and '72). He asked if I had parts. He was looking for a distributor. I had a good spare. He asked if I was into trading for something and I said, "Maybe some photography equipment". He asked, "Old fashion stuff?"

Then he said, "Well, I just bought old One Shot Kelley (http://www.winonadailynews.com/news/local/article_0c3ce11a-e71f-11e0-bcc9-001cc4c002e0.html)'s house. (One Shot had died the year before). "He left big cases of bulbs in the basement." We traded. A huge lot of #6 and #11 bulbs, 250-watt incandescent bulbs and a case of enlarging bulbs. That's the kind of luck I rarely find.



I can make a few more. Got lots of parts!

[Jac@stafford.net]

It's possible I started before you did. I started in 1947.

Holy cow! I was one year-old in 1947! You have my deepest respect.


I thought electronic flash would be the berrys when it came out. I used it once on an assignment. With batteries it weighed about 45 pounds. A dozen flashbulbs and a flashgun weighed about 7 pounds. Since then they've miniaturized the whole electronic flash oufit, but they don't put out a lot of light. The Strobenar unit the newspaper had was about equal to a Press 25. But the weight and size of the outfit cut down on my mobility too much in newspaper work, so I went back to bulbs. We used filmpacks, Super Plenachrome, and Super-pan Press. A film pack was much faster than the crank wind used on most 2 1/4 square cameras of the day. Even 35s couldn't keep up until they put the lever wind mechanism on them.

I'd love to have a couple beers or coffee with you to learn more.

For the rest, to appreciate what premortho is talking about, one unit was the Singer flash. The battery was the size of a six-pack of tall beers with a shoulder strap - but it weighed twice as much. Later the battery pack was a smaller 510 volt unit, actually a set of 9 volt batteries wired in series.

--
Jac - Chicago news photographer of the Seventies.

[premortho]

Jac, before anyone asks why we used 4X5s, it had to do with newspaper column size. A contact size 4X5 covers 2column inches wide, vertical pic. Most "portraits" of course were vertical. Almost all of the incidental portraits were used to illustrate page two and beyond articles. Those interesting fillers that are so obviously missing in todays newspapers. Now from my point of view, todays newspapers suffer from lousy fotos, poor writing (un-interesting) and no fillers. Pretty hard to overcome all those handicaps. Not enough time spent on actual reporting, too much time spent on computers. I always called in spot news to the re-write desk, and developed film on the way back to the newspaper. In an old Premo film pack tank on the floor of the car. Ansco 17 developer for 12 minutes...dump the developer back in its jug, 64 oz of water, 5 minite rinse, then hypo. By my watch. I loaded the tank in a daylight changing bag.

[Nathan Potter]

Remember the smell from an ignited flash bulb? I can't really describe it but I can smell it as if I just shot one off.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

[Jac@stafford.net]

Jac, before anyone asks why we used 4X5s, it had to do with newspaper column size. [... snip good stuff ..]

Yep. I remember that well.

I remember when they finally got rid of column rules. For some time they mimicked column rules when they went to offset printing in order to be less disruptive. At one time the Chicago Sun Times made a huge deal of explaining their shift to a new type face (font to young uns). Interesting times.
.

[Jim Andrada]

They put out a LOT of light. A LOT

They don't weigh much

They put out a LOT of light

They clear the cobwebs out of your brain when you stick them in the gun with the shutter still open for composing. Open shutter = ZAP, ZAP = hot fingers. Don't ask me how I figured this out.

Did I mention that they put out a LOT of light?

It's so cool to hand your X-Graphic with flash to a waiter or waitress and ask them to take your picture. Sort of like watching a chimpanzee trying to work a slide rule. Or for that matter a recently graduated engineer trying to work a slide rule.

[premortho]

Yes, I suppose they would get your attention that way. I put the bulbs in from the side, just to avoid that problem. That was after I watched my father put a bulb in a flashgun before plugging it in to the camera. Let there be light! I guess so! And I remember the smell they gave of after firing. Kind of a pleasant aroma. I wore a glove on my left hand to keep from burning my hand after firing one. I didn't catch it, I blocked it from bailing out of the reflecter. Then I mput the old bulb in the OTHER pocket, not the one the fresh bulbs in it. I was on a job with a photog from a higher class rag, and he used the big, screw ins (I think 22s). He caught one in his bare right hand and dumped it as quick as he could in his right pocket. It was still hot enough to set off the bunch in his pocket. Set his coat on fire! He got out of it in record time and stomped out the fire. Wool coat, still smoldering, he stomped some more. I ran to the car, grabbed my bottle of pre-fixer rinse water, and we got it out. Sometimes both we and reporters were funnier/stupid than the subjects we photographed.

[Jac@stafford.net]

That reminds me of the old trick of wedging an additional bulb behind the mounted one to double the light.

Ever used a Mazda #75 bulb?

88925

[premortho]

Negatory. Those giant ones were for pre-war film. In 1930, when flash bulbs went on the market, films were commomly what we would call asa 25, or 32. by 1935 up to 50. Ansco Supreme and Plus-X were 50. During the war (the war between Ansco and Kodak) 1936 - 1942, Superpan Press, Super Plenachrome Press and Kodaks SS pan (name changed to XX pan for obvious reasons) were around 100. And Tri-x and Super Hy-pan were 200. Now those 1930 films were so slow, they were used with the open flash tecnique. To see how this was done hand held, watch the movie "The Kennel Murder Case", f32, photog opens shutter, says "fire" assistant fires the flash, closes shutter. Press photographers invented the synchronizer, they made them out of doorbell solenoids. You adjusted the stroke of the synchronizer to get the delay you needed. Different bulbs, different delays. Now film was fast enough for "midget" bulbs. Press 25s and GE 5s. Plenty of light for the modern films post WWII. So we come to now. With sheet film. you change film speeds to get more distance. And yes, we would wedge an extra bulb next to the one in the holder. Sometimes 2 extras. One extra gave about half again more light. Not twice more.
That reminds me of the old trick of wedging an additional bulb behind the mounted one to double the light.

Ever used a Mazda #75 bulb?

88925

[Jim Andrada]

Ah yes, the smell of spent bulbs and singed fingers! (or pockets or...)

I seem to remember taking my Kodak Duaflex Twin lens Reflex w flash to school for show and tell. I think the flashbulb going off was the hit of the day.

[Jac@stafford.net]

One extra gave about half again more light. Not twice more.

You are right, of course. It's embarrassing to slip like that. :(

[premortho]

Everybody slips up once in a while. I wasn't nit-picking. There might be people reading this post that know nothing about flash bulbs except what they read on the internet. Another feature of flash bulbs is a more real, meaning not poster style, rendition of the subject, especially people subjects. One, the light is softer, and easy to get softer yet, two, you avoid that deer in the headlights look because the bulb lasts about /200th of a second, or longer. This gives your victem/subject time to move ever so slightly which puts life in the pic. The only thing good about electronic flash is you don't have to buy bulbs. So if you take a lot of flash pics, get a strobe-flash. At $1.00 per exposure for bulbs, you will be money ahead after about 1250 pictures. (to buy a flash as powerful as a Press 25 bulb)
You are right, of course. It's embarrassing to slip like that. :(