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sanking
2-Feb-2013, 12:25
What type of lubricant is recommended for the leaves of shutters?

Sandy

IanG
2-Feb-2013, 12:42
They are supposed to run dry, however graphite helps where there's been slight corrosion.

Ian

Jac@stafford.net
2-Feb-2013, 12:53
Never use graphite! It's almost like a nano invader. It will make its way into the optics and it is a total b*tch to remove!
.

E. von Hoegh
2-Feb-2013, 13:00
What type of lubricant is recommended for the leaves of shutters?

Sandy

None. If rust is present remove the blades and remove the rust with 4-0 steel wool.

IanG
2-Feb-2013, 13:55
Never use graphite! It's almost like a nano invader. It will make its way into the optics and it is a total b*tch to remove!
.

It does depend on how you use it, I've used WD-40 before now which is about the worst lubricant possible and that saved the shutter. If and when I use graphite it's extremely sparingly and any excess is removed, never caused any issue in 40 years. The blades only need a tiny tickle . . . . . .

Ian

Leigh
2-Feb-2013, 13:58
Shutter blades are designed to run dry. There should be no lubricant of any kind.

Certain pivot and bearing surfaces within the shutter need very small amounts of lubricant.
That will be detailed in the service instructions for the shutter.

Don't ever use graphite for anything. It's the worst abrasive in the world.
For lubrication of that type use molybdenum disulphide (aka moly-D).

- Leigh

gleaf
2-Feb-2013, 14:15
We used to lubricate rotating instrument bearings by diluting the oil in isopropyl alcohol. We would submerge the precision bearing and assembly, then drain and oven bake dry. Applicator syringe can apply by the drop or less. For diluted oil very fine layers can be accomplished. We watched the viscosity of the solution as the oil will coat the item making a layer and leaving less and less lubricant in the dilution.

Bob Salomon
2-Feb-2013, 14:17
Nothing personal but if you have to ask this question you really should have the repair done by an experienced service technician.

Leigh
2-Feb-2013, 14:20
+1

- Leigh

BrianShaw
2-Feb-2013, 16:54
This seems to have become the latest holy war on camera fourums. I worsip in the church of no lube on shutter blades.

Leigh
2-Feb-2013, 17:15
Why would there be any disagreement?

The blades were dry when they were shipped from the factory.

Anybody who suggests otherwise must demonstrate that they know more about the shutter than the manufacturer
if they expect their recommendations to be accepted.

- Leigh

BrianShaw
2-Feb-2013, 17:21
Why would there be any disagreement?

The blades were dry when they were shipped from the factory.

Anybody who suggests otherwise must demonstrate that they know more about the shutter than the manufacturer
if they expect their recommendations to be accepted.

- Leigh

That has always confused me too, but the graphite belivers cite Tomosy, who actually recommended it. Odd, I say.

Jody_S
2-Feb-2013, 18:12
I'll use graphite (sparingly) if, and only if, the shutter won't run dry. It happens.

Leigh
2-Feb-2013, 19:26
...the graphite belivers cite Tomosy, who actually recommended it.
I don't know who Tomosy is; never met him.

I looked him up on Google, and it appears he's a tech who's written some books. OK.

As best I can discover he is not a mechanical engineer, and is not involved in shutter design.

I should clarify that my comments pertain to shutters in otherwise good condition, as is the case with all of the ones that I've serviced. Shutters that are badly worn should be replaced, not bandaided.

- Leigh

Jac@stafford.net
2-Feb-2013, 20:25
Keep in mind that some shutter leaves are a paper composite.
They don't rust, and IMHO do not benefit one bit from lubrication.
.

Tim Meisburger
2-Feb-2013, 21:43
I save used motor oil for shutter lubrication. I find that soaking for a week or two does wonders!

BrianShaw
3-Feb-2013, 05:22
I don't know who Tomosy is; never met him.

I looked him up on Google, and it appears he's a tech who's written some books. OK.

As best I can discover he is not a mechanical engineer, and is not involved in shutter design.

I should clarify that my comments pertain to shutters in otherwise good condition, as is the case with all of the ones that I've serviced. Shutters that are badly worn should be replaced, not bandaided.

- Leigh

You're probably right that he isn't a mechanical engineer. The intro to his several books on camera repair describes him as a European-trained master camera technician. I don't know many master camera technicians who are degreed MEs. I'm sure that some may be but doubt that many are. No matter what his credentials are or how they are valued by others, the guy appears from his numerous publications over the years to have a decent reputation in the field. His opinion on graphite and shutter blades is definitely a minority opinion... but it is the opinion that might be wrong rather than his credentials. I've never seen graphite on shutter blades recommended in any other camera shutter repair spec, and I suspect that you haven't either. In the engineering environment, though, there is often diversity of opinion, as I'm sure you well know.. even amongst people of equally impecable credentials. Or... maybe its just that he is so well versed in camera repair that he doesn't mind re-repairing after the graphite travels. :)

Len Middleton
3-Feb-2013, 06:10
Why would there be any disagreement?

The blades were dry when they were shipped from the factory.

Anybody who suggests otherwise must demonstrate that they know more about the shutter than the manufacturer if they expect their recommendations to be accepted.

- Leigh

Leigh,

I do not disagree with your conclusions, but do disagree with your argument.

Manufacturers have many design criteria and priorities (design for ease of build, build to cost, etc.), and longevity beyond the warranty period may or may not be one...

Just my view from working in manufacturing some time ago,

Len

Leigh
3-Feb-2013, 11:08
All products are manufactured to price points. That's a fundamental aspect of manufacturing.

Shutters, more so than many other products, are designed to work reliably for years.
If any shutter got a reputation for failing after a short period of time, the company would go out of business.

For that reason they do use a variety of lubricants at different locations, each lubricant appropriate to the particular task.
They certainly would not avoid application of graphite if it benefited the shutter operation or longevity.

Of course modern practice dictates the use of moly-D, which lacks the abrasive characteristic of graphite.

A lot of this has to do with perspective. As mentioned earlier I'm talking about modern shutters in good condition.
Conditions in Europe after the War were much more austere, with an emphasis on keeping things working if at all possible.
In such a situation a repair tech might resort to methods that are not suitable for new equipment.

I repaired Nikons for a few years. We'd occasionally get an F in that was of sentimental value to its owner, to the extent
that he wanted it fixed regardless of cost. The shop owner, a master tech himself, always got them to work, sometimes
after heroic effort. But they did work and worked reliably. This is not the situation to which my comments relate.

- Leigh

C. D. Keth
3-Feb-2013, 11:13
Nothing personal but if you have to ask this question you really should have the repair done by an experienced service technician.

I'm pretty experienced with mechanical things and I wouldn't touch the inside of one of my shutters any more than I would dig into the guts of my old pocket watch. At best you'll disturb the shutter speeds and you'd be pretty lucky to get off that easy.

Jody_S
3-Feb-2013, 11:42
I'm pretty experienced with mechanical things and I wouldn't touch the inside of one of my shutters any more than I would dig into the guts of my old pocket watch. At best you'll disturb the shutter speeds and you'd be pretty lucky to get off that easy.

I've worked on a couple hundred or so in the last 5 years, they're really not that bad unless there's been some catastrophic event. I haven't done many large ones, mostly shutters from 35mm rangefinders where the main difficulty is removing the shutter from the camera, not the shutter CLA itself. The large LF shutters are a joy to work on compared to a tiny Copal from a 1950s TLR or a rangefinder with coupled light-meter or auto-exposure. People obsess about shutter speeds, do extensive testing, etc, but in actual use that's nor much of an issue. So long as speeds stay proportionate to each other and within 50% or so of dial speed, I don't bother with it. Graphite migrating into optical elements isn't nearly as much of a problem as deteriorating foam seals.

E. von Hoegh
4-Feb-2013, 08:21
Another oft overlooked problem with shutter blades, and one that is possibly often treated as a lubrication problem but isn't, is magnetism. Magnetised steel blades will cling together and drag. I've heard exactly one person besides myself mention this, he is an A&P and doesn't post on fora- but he does know things mechanical.