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thomasfallon
2-Feb-2013, 09:22
I have purchased a Jobo 3005 which develops 5 sheets of 8x10. This is the manual roller version. I believe the tank only needs 270 ml of chemistry, but I think that will exceed the capacity of the developer. I am planning to process Ilford Delta 100. I want to do one shot. I prefer not to store any stock solution since it might not be used for a while. So a priority is buying either a powder developer in envelopes to make only 1 liter or a liquid concentrate developer that will store well for a long time undiluted. I am interested in staying basic for now. Just normal development. And I am going to start with five negatives of a blank sky to test this out and check for any problems.

I did some searching on D76 and opinions seemed to be that each sheet of 8x10 needed 100 ml straight or 200 ml 1:1. Question one, does that sound correct? Question 2, is there a better basic general purpose developer for me to start with? Thanks in advance.

Ari
2-Feb-2013, 09:42
1. Yes, it's a very good starting point.
2. D-76 is great, as is HC-110; others will probably chime in with a favourite all-purpose developer, but it's hard to go wrong with either of those.

I mix 640 mL of developer solution 1:63 HC-110 (dil. H) for a 2553 tank, to process 12 sheets of 4x5; so I'm using 10mL of HC-110 per 12 sheets of film.

vinny
2-Feb-2013, 09:47
5 negative$?
Read up here on problems people have had using jobo drums and avoid making those mistakes. Get a Beseler base. Try one sheet unless you have an unlimited budget.

Sal Santamaura
2-Feb-2013, 10:06
I have purchased a Jobo 3005 which develops 5 sheets of 8x10. This is the manual roller version...There is no "manual roller version" of the 3005. You can manually roll it, but will need something like a flexible-necked funnel to get liquids in and out while it's horizontal, which is how the cap requires that be done.


...I believe the tank only needs 270 ml of chemistry...Jobo specifies a minimum of 330 ml, but that is cutting things very close simply on the basis of coverage, especially if your drum is not perfectly level. I typically won't use less than 600ml of working solution in a 3005, even on a well-leveled CPP-2 running at the correct speed for film (approximately 45 rpm).


I am planning to process Ilford Delta 100. I want to do one shot...And I am going to start with five negatives of a blank sky to test this out and check for any problems...This is not clear to me. Are you planning to process one 8x10 negative at a time or five?


...I did some searching on D76 and opinions seemed to be that each sheet of 8x10 needed 100 ml straight or 200 ml 1:1...does that sound correct?...No, it's decidedly incorrect. For confident ability to properly process 80 square inches of film, Kodak specifies that 250 ml of D-76 stock solution is required. Diluted 1+1, that equals 500ml of working solution.


...is there a better basic general purpose developer for me to start with?...There is a general purpose developer that does only require 100 ml of stock solution to develop 80 square inches of film. That developer is XTOL. Whereas with D-76 you'd need 1,250 ml of stock to confidently process five 8x10 sheets (which exceeds the 1,000 ml maximum that rotation motors on Jobo manual processors can handle but will work if you're manually rolling your drum), full strength XTOL can do the job with only 500 ml. It also affords you an opportunity to dilute the stock 1+1 and still need to rotate only 1,000 ml of working solution.

Currently, using a CPP-2 with 3005s, high ambient temperatures -- both air and "cold" water -- have lead me to dilute XTOL 1+3 so developing times are not unmanageably short. Even so, I can process five 5x7 sheets, three 6-1/2 x 8-1/2 sheets or two 8x10 sheets of film without exhausting the developer. Although XTOL is only available in 5-liter packages, it's relatively inexpensive and keeps perfectly (at least six months) when mixed with distilled water, then stored in completely full glass bottles. After mixing, I put the stock into twenty 250 ml bottles. Each of them represents one 3005 "batch" as described above, so there is never any XTOL stock exposed to air in storage. I recommend you give it a try.

thomasfallon
2-Feb-2013, 10:55
Vinny

Was there supposed to be a link? Thanks.

thomasfallon
2-Feb-2013, 11:00
Sal

I meant five sheets at a time using a one shot developer. No point in buying the Jobo tank unless it will do five sheets. One at a time is too slow. I was planning to use a manual roller base that is a Jobo product. Would a Beseler roller be better? Thanks.

thomasfallon
2-Feb-2013, 11:02
Ari

Was also considering HC110 for storage reasons. Thanks.

Sal Santamaura
2-Feb-2013, 12:04
...I was planning to use a manual roller base that is a Jobo product. Would a Beseler roller be better?...The Jobo manual roller base is fine; using it is even aerobic exercise. :D

I've no experience with Beseler motorized bases, but the Unicolor equivalents reverse before a 3005 drum makes one complete revolution. Modification of Unirollers is necessary to make them usable. I'd start with the Jobo 1509


http://www.freestylephoto.biz/1509-Jobo-Roller-Base-for-Tanks-and-Drums

and a funnel like this one


http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/RHN0/06064/N0027.oap?ck=Search_N0027_-1_3143&pt=N0027&ppt=C0166.

thomasfallon
2-Feb-2013, 14:15
The Jobo manual roller base is fine; using it is even aerobic exercise. :D



I was planning to put it on the floor and agitate it with my feet, like rolling logs. I'll be sure to post a video.

Some people are telling me to pour chemistry in with the tank horizontal and some with it vertical. Which is better? Been researching your Xtol suggestion.

Sal Santamaura
2-Feb-2013, 18:22
..Some people are telling me to pour chemistry in with the tank horizontal and some with it vertical. Which is better?...Not a question of better. The cap is designed to admit chemistry when Expert drums are horizontal on a processor. That's why they only come with cogs. If you try to put liquid in when it's vertical, most will flow out of /over the cap and not go in. It's got to be close to horizontal, tilted no more than a Jobo lift does on a processor when emptying the drum, let's say roughly 35 degrees. That angle's just an estimate from memory; I haven't set up my processor to measure it.

civich
2-Feb-2013, 18:57
Thomas,
Most who use the 3005 w/hand or motor base rolling just set the drum upright in the sink, fill it from a beaker/pitcher and start rolling. Watch Michael E. Gordon's excellent video (link below) and don't look back. He demonstrates with a 4x5 drum and a pyro formula but the same procedure works perfectly well with the 3005 drum, 8x10 film and 500 ml of Xtol. -Chris

http://michaelegordon.wordpress.com/2009/11/05/how-to-video-daylight-sheet-film-4x5-development-2/

koh303
2-Feb-2013, 20:10
Thomas,
Most who use the 3005 w/hand or motor base rolling just set the drum upright in the sink, fill it from a beaker/pitcher and start rolling. Watch Michael E. Gordon's excellent video (link below) and don't look back. He demonstrates with a 4x5 drum and a pyro formula but the same procedure works perfectly well with the 3005 drum, 8x10 film and 500 ml of Xtol. -Chris

http://michaelegordon.wordpress.com/2009/11/05/how-to-video-daylight-sheet-film-4x5-development-2/
+1

thomashobbs
2-Feb-2013, 21:31
Does anyone know if 1 liter of Ilfosol 3 is sufficient to process 5 sheets of 8x10" film (Ilford Delta)?

I have access to a Jobo and a drum but the motor maxes out at 1 liter so I need to find a developer that can process 5 sheets (400 square inches) with just a liter of working solution. Sounds like xtol fits the bill. Anything else?

ic-racer
2-Feb-2013, 22:04
I believe the tank only needs 270 ml of chemistry, but I think that will exceed the capacity of the developer

Do you have the 3005 version of this? What happens when you put more than 270ml of chemistry, it certainly holds more than that? Does the cap leak?

88527

Sal Santamaura
2-Feb-2013, 22:34
...Most who use the 3005 w/hand or motor base rolling just set the drum upright in the sink, fill it from a beaker/pitcher and start rolling. Watch Michael E. Gordon's excellent video (link below)...http://michaelegordon.wordpress.com/2009/11/05/how-to-video-daylight-sheet-film-4x5-development-2/I just watched the video through 32:00. That was sufficient for me to see that Michael Gordon does not simply set his drum upright in the sink to fill or completely invert it to drain. Rather, he holds it tilted during those operations, at an angle which is difficult to establish precisely but which seems to be in the neighborhood of 45 degrees. See him pouring things in at 23:30, 27:43, 30:45, 31:11, 32:00, etc. He pours things out at 27:15, 30:25, 31:41, etc. Note that, when pouring solutions out, he moves the drum about at various angles to ensure the liquid makes it through that cap, which would not permit their escape if simply turned upside down.

If one wishes to use their kitchen sink and run tap water into the cap of an Expert drum (held at an angle), splashing chemistry where food may be prepared and/or dishes washed, then this approach can work. I'd not do it, opting instead for a transmission fluid funnel (around $3.00) that induces liquids into the rotating drum on it's base. That's the way Jobo says Expert drums were designed to work.

Sal Santamaura
2-Feb-2013, 22:55
Does anyone know if 1 liter of Ilfosol 3 is sufficient to process 5 sheets of 8x10" film (Ilford Delta) ?No, it is not sufficient. Per page 8 of the Ilfosol 3 data sheet


http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/201142795941192.pdf

at either 1+9 or 1+14, 1,000 ml of working solution can only handle three 8x10 sheets without exhaustion.

Also, unless you live someplace where the ambient temperature is always low, or your Jobo processor is a CPP-2 and at least your tap water stays cool year round, or you're willing to freeze water in the one liter Jobo bottles and have the processor's heater work against that, Ilfosol 3 will likely need an unmanageably short developing time with Delta 100, even at 1+14. See page 5 of the linked data sheet. My experience has been that, despite Ilford's claim continuous rotary agitation needs only a 15% reduction of time compared to the table, even with a pre-rinse substantially greater reductions are necessary.

I didn't end up standardizing on XTOL until investigating and experimenting with a lot of developers. :D

Sal Santamaura
2-Feb-2013, 22:58
Do you have the 3005 version of this?
88527Did you modify that yourself? I've never seen or heard of an Expert drum cap with the red membrane cover. All the ones I'm aware of have cogs.

Vaughn
3-Feb-2013, 00:14
I pour into the 3005 while it is rotating on the motor base using a funnel and a curved piece of plastic tubing.

I use Ilford PQ Universal Developer at 1:9 -- a liter at a time which is over-kill as that will do 10 sheets of 8x10. I occasionally use it more dilute -- at 1:19 a liter will still do all 5 sheets of 8x10, according to Ilford's Fact Sheet.

I use a fixer without hardener, as I have had problems with deposits on the non-emulsion side when using hardeners.

koh303
3-Feb-2013, 05:20
I just watched the video through 32:00. That was sufficient for me to see that Michael Gordon does not simply set his drum upright in the sink to fill or completely invert it to drain. Rather, he holds it tilted during those operations, at an angle which is difficult to establish precisely but which seems to be in the neighborhood of 45 degrees. See him pouring things in at 23:30, 27:43, 30:45, 31:11, 32:00, etc. He pours things out at 27:15, 30:25, 31:41, etc. Note that, when pouring solutions out, he moves the drum about at various angles to ensure the liquid makes it through that cap, which would not permit their escape if simply turned upside down.
Sal, Expert drum lids are no different then any other Jobo lids.
Liquids can flow in and out of the drum while it is upright just as much as any other position. If you pour in slowly, nothing will overflow. This is also true when using a Jobo drum on a machine with a lift, where it is easy to pour in too fast and overflow the funnel capacity.

IC racer - the cap does not leak, no matter how full the drum is.

Thomas - if you are going to use the manual roller base, you can use as much chemistry as you want, and most definitely more then 1L if thats what you want to do, though using a dev that requires only 1L is not a bad idea to make things simpler and easier.

Sal Santamaura
3-Feb-2013, 09:09
Sal, Expert drum lids are no different then any other Jobo lids. Liquids can flow in and out of the drum while it is upright just as much as any other position. If you pour in slowly, nothing will overflow...It may be possible for liquids to flow in and out of Expert drum caps when completely upright or inverted, but at nowhere near the rate typical for other Jobo lids. I've never tried it during actual processing because, for all intents and purposes, the virtual trickle would take so long that induction time could become a significant portion of development step time.

As noted elsewhere in this thread, many of the developers users are considering require very short times when rotary processing on a Jobo. Searching this forum (and others) will reveal numerous threads about problems people were having with uneven development in Expert drums. In many if not most cases, those defects could be traced to short developing times combined with failure to rapidly induce developer while the drum was rotating. I'll stand by my recommendation that anyone not using a Jobo processor -- and unwilling to duplicate practices shown in the above video -- use an inexpensive transmission fluid funnel to pour liquids into their Expert drum while it's horizontal and rotating.

thomasfallon
3-Feb-2013, 10:29
I ordered a 3010, but with the cog top. I understand that I may need a hardware store stopper for it. Guessing I will be using at least 500 ml.

thomasfallon
3-Feb-2013, 10:36
So one more question. In the old days working at the newspaper, we were extremely sloppy and could have cared less about wash temperatures. We usually rinsed the film for a few seconds and put it right into the enlarger wet and made a print. It got the editor off our butts. LOL. In the Michael Gordon video linked above he is cooling his developer to an optimum temp, but washing with tap water that is a few degrees hotter. Is that OK? I am in Maine, so I do not have Sal's temperature issues. Instead my tap water would be too cold. I was expecting to use distilled water at room temperature for mixing the chemistry and washing. How close to the chemistry temperature does the wash water need to be?

Thanks to everyone who has posted.

Erik Larsen
3-Feb-2013, 10:37
Pouring the liquid with the drum at an angle allows for faster fills/dumps because there is always a vent space to allow air displacement as the liquid is poured in. It's easy to test, just try it and be the judge. This applies to my expert drums. The drums with a center core tube work fine filling in an upright position but empty faster when poured at an angle.

I would imagine the flow rate would only be an issue for the developer. I routinely use 1500ml of developer and the faster I can get it in the the tank, the better. Stop and fix are not so critical. If upright works for you, great - no problems then, but is is slower filling/dumping. Just my experience.
Regards
Erik

Sal Santamaura
3-Feb-2013, 14:17
I ordered a 3010, but with the cog top. I understand that I may need a hardware store stopper for it. Guessing I will be using at least 500 ml.No need for a stopper unless you over fill the drum, which means more than 1,500 ml. When level/rotating, nothing will come out of the cap.


...In the Michael Gordon video linked above he is cooling his developer to an optimum temp, but washing with tap water that is a few degrees hotter. Is that OK?...His cold tap water temperatures are probably similar to mine, i.e. anywhere from 63 degrees in January to 80 degrees in August/September. Ilford specifies that the stop, fix and wash should be within 9 degrees of developer temperature. I think modern, hardened emulsions will take even a bit more variation than that before reticulating and, when reticulation does occur, it looks more like excessive grain than the "cracked mud" effect of old.