Sinar Norma

[Brandan]

I am looking for a starter kit in LF photography.
Sinar Norma doesn't seem too heavy and I found really enthusiastic opinions about it.

There are three Sinar Norma Kits right now for sale in Denmark. Which one would you choose?

Sinar Norma 4X5 Camera Kit with the Symmar 100mm F5.6 Lens w/ Holders in Case (http://www.ebay.es/itm/Sinar-Norma-4X5-Camera-Kit-with-the-Symmar-100mm-F5-6-Lens-w-Holders-in-Case-/221165499891?pt=Film_Cameras&hash=item337e7db5f3#ht_2048wt_1398)

Sinar Norma 4x5 camera kit with Xenar 150/4.5 lens accessories in original case (http://www.ebay.es/itm/Sinar-Norma-4x5-camera-kit-with-Xenar-150-4-5-lens-accessories-in-original-case-/221177577083?pt=Film_Cameras&hash=item337f35fe7b#ht_2221wt_1398)

Sinar Norma 4x5 camera kit with Symmar 180mm F5.6 lens in original case (http://www.ebay.es/itm/Sinar-Norma-4x5-camera-kit-with-Symmar-180mm-F5-6-lens-in-original-case-/221177576045?pt=Film_Cameras&hash=item337f35fa6d#ht_2174wt_1398)

The idea is using 6x9 film with it.
Do you know which film roll is compatible with it?

Thanks!

[soeren]

Hmm can't tell you which camera just that the buy it now prices are high, to me very high.
If youre going to shoot 6X9 any way why not this?

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Linhof-Technika-6x9-D-B-P-A-P-West-Germany-Mittelformatkamera-Body-Gehause-/330860597196?pt=DE_Foto_Camcorder_Analogkameras&hash=item4d08d40fcc

If you insist on a sinar youll need a filmholder like this (also exist in 6X7 only and 6X9 only)

https://www.leicashop.com/vintage/sinar-vario-rollfilmholder-56712-set-p-5545.html

You can do with one of these

https://www.leicashop.com/vintage/wista-6x9cm-rollfilm-holder-p-5548.html

But they wont fit under groundglass so youll have to remove that prior to exposure.

Best regards

[rdenney]

All Sinar cameras have an "international" back, which is compatible with a Graflok back. It will accommodate just about any roll film holder. The Sinar rollfilm holders (including the Vario and Vario Zoom) are very nice, but quite complicated and expensive multi-format holders. Any plain Horseman-type holder will also work. I even use a Shen-Hao 6x12 hold with my Sinar and it works fine. (I have the Sinar Vario holder, plus a Wista 6x9 and the Shen-Hao 6x12 holders--they all work.)

The first kit didn't include many goodies, but the 100mm lens might be more useful to you when shooting 6x9. It looked to have the standard square bellows which will not be helpful with the shorter lenses you'll want.

The second kit included an intermediate holder and a bag bellows, and you'll need the bag bellows for the shorter lenses you'll want for smaller formats.

The third kit has a Norma-era Sinar shutter, which is a nice addition. But I don't see the cable release, which is absolutely critical and nearly impossible to find on the used market.

For someone starting who intends to use a rollfilm format and regular lenses mounted in shutters, the second kit looks to me more appropriately equipped.

As to a Linhof 6x9 Technika being an alternative, I'm not so sure. It would really depend on the approach you intend to take. The Linhof is what I would call a hand-holdable technical camera with lots of movements, as opposed to a monorail camera with even more movements. Both the Linhof and the Sinar will be older and therefore likely to need some cleaning, lubricating and adjusting, but the Linhof will likely have to have it more. There are 6x9 view cameras that really are better, but not at this price point, or in as flexible a package.

I have used my Sinar F2 with roll film using lenses down to 47mm, which works fine with the appropriate bellows.

Rick "who warns that condition is everything with Normas, but it's hard to judge from photos on eBay" Denney

[Drew Wiley]

I agree with Rick. Condition is everything. But they are wonderful cameras if you find a clean one. Minor fine-tuning is easy, and components can be shared with later Sinar field cameras. Make certain the bellows are in good shape, or get a substitute set. You can use all the conventional rollfilm backs if
you want. I personally like the Horseman backs. But why do you want to use 6x9 instead of full 4x5?
Of course, you can do both with a camera like this.

[Brandan]

Drew is an economic issue. It is cheaper+easier to find+I have a Nikon Mf film scanner

[Drew Wiley]

I understand. But it wouldn't make much difference if you used a Norma or a more modern Sinar F2,
or other F series. But using short lenses means you will likely need a bag bellows with it.

[coisasdavida]

I recently found a beater Norma here in Brazil.
An amazing camera.

I also found this: http://www.philipmorgan.net/the-sinar-norma-cla-guide/ that could be useful to you if you decide to go ahead with the purchase.

[soeren]

All Sinar cameras have an "international" back, which is compatible with a Graflok back. It will accommodate just about any roll film holder. The Sinar rollfilm holders (including the Vario and Vario Zoom) are very nice, but quite complicated and expensive multi-format holders. Any plain Horseman-type holder will also work. I even use a Shen-Hao 6x12 hold with my Sinar and it works fine. (I have the Sinar Vario holder, plus a Wista 6x9 and the Shen-Hao 6x12 holders--they all work.)
SNIP<

Rick "who warns that condition is everything with Normas, but it's hard to judge from photos on eBay" Denney

Yes they'll work but, at least to me, it makes a difference whether youll have to remove the groundglass prior to fitting the filmholder, slide it under the groundglass and handle the advancing lever with holder in place. And it doesn't have to be the vario holders, just the plain 6X9 ones
Another thing, Sinars ain't light cameras.
Best regards
Søren "who would love a light field camera i.e. a Chamonix 45-N2 for nature- and landscapephotography instead of my Norma 5X7" Nielsen

[Drew Wiley]

For lightwt travel like long backpacks or airline use I have a little 4x5 Ebony folder. But the Norma is
way faster to use and much more versatile. Even if the Ebony accepted slide-in rollfilm backs I wouldn't
use them because the extra wt would risk tugging the back out of focus position. It might not be much;
but with 6x9, everything has to remain especially precise. And Ebony is probably as rigid as lightwt small wooden cameras come. Quickly changing backs via Graflok isn't that big a headache. With the Norma you could probably use the slide-in style like the Sinar Vario; but I'd want to replace the original frame insert with the F2 metering back style because it opens much softer - less risk of tugging
on it to get the holder in.

[Leonard Robertson]

I weighed my 4X5 Norma on a kitchen scale so take this weight as approximate. With both front and rear standards, 4X5 back/focus panel, base rail and rail clamp (although without end caps), regular straight bellows, lens board with a 150mm Berlin Dagor in shutter the weight is just under 8 1/2 pounds. I don't carry this camera very far afield, to I don't consider this weight at all bad. I would much rather carry an extra 2 or 3 pounds over a lighter camera to get the sturdiness and versatility of the Norma. Someone who carries a 4X5 longer distances would possibly decide on a lighter camera.

This thread indicates that MAYBE a Horseman rotary back for roll film may work on a Norma, although at the penalty of more weight:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?99381-Roll-Film-Back-for-Sinar-Norma

Of the three Norma outfits listed in the original post, I think I would choose the third one with the 180mm lens, primarily because it includes the Sinar behind-the-lens shutter. As Rick mentions, it may be missing the special Sinar release cable which lowers the value of the shutter quite a bit. However, you could resell the shutter without the cable for a decent amount to offset the purchase price of the Norma. It would be worth contacting the seller to see if he may have the release cable for the shutter, although it is unlikely. The auction does list a "Make Offer" option which would definitely be worth trying. The 180mm lens will be a "long" focal length for 6X9 roll film, so you will probably want to add a second or third shorter focal length lens at some point in the future. And at that time add a bag bellows for ease of use of movements with the shorter FL.

When I first looked at the prices for all three eBay auctions I thought they are quite high, but they all do include a lens and carrying case. I have seen Normas without lens and case on eBay US and UK for a few hundred dollars less, but I don't know if you must pay any import duty from these locations. Buying a Norma without lens would give you the option of choosing a more modern lens which may or may not be important using roll film and a greater degree of magnification.

Len