Is there still demand for 25 ASA film?

[Peter Yeti]

It seems that with the collaps of efke all 25 ASA sheet film disappeared from the market. But yesterday I talked to some people from a small company in Germany that still could make this film. They took over parts of ORWO, the Eastern German branch of Agfa after WWII, and ORWO developed the original recipe for the efke 25. I was told that they still would be able to produce this film and cut it to any size one could wish for, even ULF.

Of course there is a catch: They don't see enough demand for this film and don't have enough money to invest into a very uncertain deal. If they coat one master roll of this film it would cost them 10-15k. I guess that's about 500 boxes of 4x5/25. I'm afraid that even if they'd team up with Adox, there wouldn't be nearly enough demand in Germany or even continental Europe to get their investment back in finite time. So, the only chance would be if there'd be a real demand overseas with a strong and committed partner for distribution.

So, what are the chances? Would there be enough people to buy and use this film? What about distributors like freestyle, could they be interested in making a commitment? This might be the last chance before this film and the ability to produce it disappears forever.

Peter

[Lachlan 717]

I'd love to try some in 7x17" for outback/desert shooting where reciprocity is minimal due to brightness.

Also love it for wide open portrait film in 4x5.

[Brian C. Miller]

10-15K for a master roll? Sounds like a bargain. I wonder what they would charge for IR. I do know that there have been a number of people bemoaning the lack of slow films. But here's the real question: how good is their coating process? The Efke films weren't flawless. I got occassional gaps between the size of my pinky to my thumb. (yeah, right, scan into Photoshop and use the "bandaid" tool. Sure...) I would have to look at their defect rate for film coating before I put up money for the product. I think my results for Efke products was about 10%, just enough to keep me on my toes.

[Drew Wiley]

I spent last Sat up a pretty hill taking side-by-side shots with Efke 25 and Fuji ACROS. I
already knew basically what to expect: the Efke has greater range and significantly more
contrast (superb shadow separation), has a bit more razor sharpness, and much more risk of flaws (and in the case of roll films, of light piping). In PMK pyro, ACROS is just one stop faster for similar target values. Both are orthopan in sensitivity. But it looks like ACROS is
about as realistic a substitute as I'm going to find. And I've already shot and printed it
quite a bit, so feel quite comfortable with it, esp for high-altitude use, which is the only
place I might typically be tempted to use roll film anyway, where a high level or magnificaton become an important issue printing. I only have about one serious trip's worth
of ACROS Quickloads in the freezer, and maybe only a third of a box of 8x10 still on hand.
Still have quite a few rolls of Efke 25 left, but getting annoyed with certain shots spoiled
by the unpredictable quality. For extreme range sheet film for contact printing etc I used
Arista 200 (Foma 200), which also gave incredible shadow separation, but likewise suffered from a lot of blemishes. In that category I've adapted to TMY400.

[Jim Fitzgerald]

I shot Efke-25 exclusevlin 8x10, 11x14 and 8x20 when I could get it. I have a decent supply and with my stock of x-ray film I have a good supply. I would use the 25 all the time if I could get it in ULF sizes up to 14x17.

[Frank Pittel]

I used Efke-25 exclusively for the last eight years and have been going through 10-15 boxes a year. I would like to try waphoto's iso25 film but can't seem to order it here in the US.

[Roger Cole]

10-15K for a master roll? Sounds like a bargain. I wonder what they would charge for IR. I do know that there have been a number of people bemoaning the lack of slow films. But here's the real question: how good is their coating process? The Efke films weren't flawless. I got occassional gaps between the size of my pinky to my thumb. (yeah, right, scan into Photoshop and use the "bandaid" tool. Sure...) I would have to look at their defect rate for film coating before I put up money for the product. I think my results for Efke products was about 10%, just enough to keep me on my toes.

You mean 10% of it had problems, or only 10% didn't? The statement reads to me like only 10% was acceptable.

[Brian C. Miller]

About one in 10 had a problem. Most were good, but there would be at least two bad sheets per 25. So if I made two exposures per subject, I could still blow a shot, if the defective sheets were sequential. And the emulsion problem would always be large, not something that could be touched up just a little bit.

[Too Many Cameras]

I've used Efke 25 in 35mm and 120 and it's one of my favorite films (not top five, though.) I can say for sure I'd use it in 4X5, but my few boxes won't be enough to convince anyone. Why can't they gauge interest from their existing distributors? Someone has to be selling their film outside of Germany.

[Tim Povlick]

Hi Peter,

I am interested in some in 8x10 and 4x5.

Regards,

Tim

[Curt]

Efke was special, I used Orwo back in the '70's, bought it from Freestyle. My hope is Freestyle will once again reach out and find a new 25 or slow speed film like or close to Efke. If I could get one film in any size that emulsion would be Kodak Panatomic-X. Alas!

[andreios]

Were they not folks from Banse & Grohman? They stock Wephota NP15 - lovely 25ASA film based on older ORWO emulsions and as far as I have been told they make the runs at least once a year - and B&G then cuts the film to any size you want...

[cosmicexplosion]

What situations do you use 25
Bright sun I'm thinking?

[Bob Salomon]

ASA has been out of use for years. It is ISO internationally. Not ASA.

[Peter Yeti]

My first impression is that the demand is not really that smashing and the few people who really, really want this kind of film wouldn't buy the supply of one master roll within a year. Of course, that's only the first impression.

Some of you are obviously familiar with ORWO and know Banse & Grohmann. I was talking to Dieter Grohmann about their Wephota NP15, which is not available any longer. NP15 was an old ORWO development and was produced by different coating facilities. Only one of them was efke and the film was sold also as efke 25 or Adox 25 and perhaps some other names. As we all know, this coating facility is history. But Dieter Grohmann also has another coating facility at hand in Germany, I think he said a remainder of former Agfa. They still can coat this film and cut it to any size at least up to 20x24. Only problem, B&G don't have the money to invest in a master roll and then try to sell it over the next dozen years.

I think their problem is distribution. Hardly anyone knows wephota and they never built up a network to sell their products. I only found them when I got desperate for certain films and researched intensely. When I wanted to buy NP15 it was sold out. I was told that they couldn't sell much NP15 for years but after the collaps of efke their stock was gone within a few months. I can imagine that this problem could be solved if one of the big distributors like Freestyle would make a deal with them. But I have no connection with people from Freestyle because I'm sitting on the other side of the big pond. If one of you guys has connections, please use them.

A word about quality: I had no chance to test the NP15 but I never was impressed by efke due to their poor qc. It might be that the other coating facility has higher standards but I simply don't know. Last year I was talking to Mirko Böddecker (Adox) about quality issues with sheet film. He told me that he could do qc in house and reach standards like the big players. But then the film would cost the same as Kodak, Ilford, Fuji and people wouldn't buy it anymore. Again it's a question of demand. If enough people are willing to buy NP15 and pay the price for a film with high qc standards, I think that B&G and Adox would be more than happy to produce it.

Peter

[halberstadt]

I this manufacturer they would benefit from a partnership with a company like Freestyle Photo. Freestyle presently rebrands Foma film as Freestyle.edu (?) Years ago they used to rebrand ORWO products as "Europe's Finest". As for ORWO films, I really fell in love with the tonality of their mainstay NP20 (NP22 for export) that I purchased on my first trip to the GDR in 1987. I used to be able to buy ORWO products from Freestyle for a few years in the late 1980's under the original name too.

[Peter Yeti]

The problem is that Foma doesn't make any 25 ASA (or ISO or whatever) film, so Freestyle cannot rebrand it. ORWO vanished after 1990 and the German reunification. Banse & Grohmann kept the film and paper production as long as possible but by now there are hardly any coating facilities left. NP22 is Foma 100 right now, NP27 is gone and so is NP15 with a tiny chance for a revival.

[BrianShaw]

ASA has been out of use for years. It is ISO internationally. Not ASA.

:o

[BrianShaw]

Intellectually and emotionally I support such an effort. As a user and buyer, though, I doubt I could muster up enough enthusiasm to actually invest. I might be a bit more interested if there were information on projected retail prices... but I realize that expecting that is unreasonable at htis point in the thought process.

[Brian C. Miller]

How about doing it as a Kickstarter project? Then you will definitively know how much real support there is for it. Get a firm price on the master roll, and then start the Kickstarter project. Last year I spent well over $1000 on film. If there really are users of ISO 25 film, then filling $15,000 will be no problem.

[jnantz]

why don't you give photo warehouse a call ?
for years they distributed master rolls of ilford film
to the large format community, so they have experience in doing
just what you are looking to do ...

[David R Munson]

How about doing it as a Kickstarter project? Then you will definitively know how much real support there is for it. Get a firm price on the master roll, and then start the Kickstarter project. Last year I spent well over $1000 on film. If there really are users of ISO 25 film, then filling $15,000 will be no problem.

The crowdfunding option really is a good idea for something like this. Not only do you get a real picture of demand, if you hit your goal you've got your funding, too.

EDIT: Forgot to note, I'd buy as much as I could set aside money for.

[BrianShaw]

What about distributors like freestyle, could they be interested in making a commitment?

Have you asked them (or any other distributor) yet? It seems like this kind of project really needs a "patron" who will fund and take the intial risk. In another hobby field in which I participate, this kind of effort is generally successful but it always seems to depend upon one or more well-funded supporters.

[Drew Wiley]

Sounds like a pipe dream to me. To make it viable you'd have to do separate runs of roll films and sheet film, then be able to do those custom cuts ULF users
would need - and how many would actually fall into each category sufficient for min batches? Probably not enough to carry the demand. Who would risk the investment in the first place? Of course if you already have three luxury SUV's and want to give up purchasing a fourth, you could do it. But I don't think many of
us here fall into that category.

[Peter Yeti]

Intellectually and emotionally I support such an effort. As a user and buyer, though, I doubt I could muster up enough enthusiasm to actually invest. I might be a bit more interested if there were information on projected retail prices... but I realize that expecting that is unreasonable at htis point in the thought process.

They have a price list and a 4x5"/25 sheet box is less then $25.

[Peter Yeti]

How about doing it as a Kickstarter project? Then you will definitively know how much real support there is for it. Get a firm price on the master roll, and then start the Kickstarter project. Last year I spent well over $1000 on film. If there really are users of ISO 25 film, then filling $15,000 will be no problem.

This sounds like a very interesting idea! I had to look it up on wikipedia to understand what you mean. I think that says it all, I'm NOT a business man, I have no business relation to B&G, I'm not a professional photographer either, just an analogue photo enthusiast who's unhappy about films disappearing from the market. For B&G, producing film is not a real business anymore either. But if the feedback here among the users indicates that there is sufficient demand, then I'd be more than happy to suggest Dieter Grohmann to try this Kickstarter thing.

[halberstadt]

Hey Peter, I was just suggesting that perhaps Freestyle order a run of 25 ASA film from this former ORWO factory and slap a new name on the box. I realize that FOMA doesn't make 25 ASA film. FYI: actually I just peeked in my garage and found a box of "Europe's Finest" paper, I could have been wrong, perhaps that was AGFA? Could well be that Freestyle labeled both ORWO and AGFA "Europe's Finest" for all I know.

Seems like quite a stretch for a dozen photographers to chip in. Also, if Freestyle or some other big photographic retailer could order more than one run of manufacturing, there would likely be some further cost reduction. Just an idea.

[Peter Yeti]

Have you asked them (or any other distributor) yet? It seems like this kind of project really needs a "patron" who will fund and take the intial risk. In another hobby field in which I participate, this kind of effort is generally successful but it always seems to depend upon one or more well-funded supporters.

No, I don't even know the distributors on your side of the pond. But you're absolutely right with the "patron" or several ones. In my opinion the biggest problem is the distribution because B&G have absolutely no distribution system abroad. If they could make a deal with a bigger provider in the US AND if there is a reasonable demand, then there might be a chance. The idea of this thread was to find out whether or not it's worth a try.

[premortho]

Well I'd be interested in ASA 25 film in 9X12 (metric), 4X5, 5X7, and occasionaly, 8X10.
This sounds like a very interesting idea! I had to look it up on wikipedia to understand what you mean. I think that says it all, I'm NOT a business man, I have no business relation to B&G, I'm not a professional photographer either, just an analogue photo enthusiast who's unhappy about films disappearing from the market. For B&G, producing film is not a real business anymore either. But if the feedback here among the users indicates that there is sufficient demand, then I'd be more than happy to suggest Dieter Grohmann to try this Kickstarter thing.

[Andrew O'Neill]

If there was an affordable ISO 25 LF film made available, I would buy it. I loved Efke 25, and their IR film... If I had 15G's sitting around I would buy a master roll! Their quality control issues never really bothered me, except for one box of IR film. All the sheets had this weird banding thing going on. I assumed it was from poor coating. These days, beggers can't be choosers.

[Jody_S]

Like some others here, I'm a terrible consumer from a film manufacturer's point of view, in that I'll do just about anything to save a buck including buying and using long-expired film. I only buy new, and only in 4x5, when I'm completely out of everything else. That being said, I do buy a number of boxes a year, and if the price point were at all competitive with the other stuff on Freestyle, I would absolutely try this. However, anyone looking for commitments to justify investing $15K for a master roll would look at my comment and say "no f-ing way". I suspect this (to some degree collective) habit of 'doing things on the cheap' is what has cost us several important films over the last few years, including this one. If I won the lottery, yes I would buy a larger freezer and stock up with emulsions like this one. Until then, I'm forced to either continue what I'm doing, or go digital.

[Drew Wiley]

I don't think there is anything cheap about some half-priced film that you have to double your shots to hope one sheet comes out unblemished! Besides, the
cloud or shadow probably moved inbetween shots anyway. And if it was remanufactured, it almost certainly wouldn't be the bargain that it was previously.
Overhead and distribution would have to be recovered at today's realistic rates. And the mere fact Efke is no more demonstrates that they were not making
enough money to keep up with plant maintenance. So as far as I'm concerned, I'd be happy to pay MORE for this film if it was now made to a high level of quality
control, yet retained its relatively unique characteristics of high acutance, extremely long straight-line range, and orthopan sensitivity. Large format isn't exactly
friendly to budgets in general. I'd prefer reliable product and just shoot more circumspectly to avoid wasting it.

[Peter Yeti]

Drew,

I'm absolutely with you in this point but I can understand Jody_S, too. That was at the core of the discussion I had with Mirko Böddecker from Adox. Their market is primarily the price-oriented customers. Improving qc would have been no problem for Adox. It would have meant to throw away 30% and pay for the man power, effectively doubling the sales price of the film. Given sufficient demand, it should be possible to offer a pro version with high qc standard and an amateur version with lower qc requirements at a cheaper price point. But currently we would be lucky if this film could be offered again at all. Anyway, I hope and would think that this other coating facility produces a higher quality than efke did.

Peter

[IanG]

A bit of clarity Adox/EFKE 14, (the old Din name), later renamed EFKE 25 (and many years later sold with the Adox name) it is in only 25 ISO under Tungsten lighting, in fact it's more like 40-50 EI in daylight. I used to shoot both EFKE 25 and Tmax 100 at 50EI and develop them for the same time (often mixed together in the same tank) and apart from the spectral differences the tonality/gradation was similar, negatives printed on the same grade of paper.


ASA has been out of use for years. It is ISO internationally. Not ASA.

ISO uses both the ASA/BS (US & UK) and DIN (German) speeds, ISO requires that films are tested either by the ASA/BS or the DIN criteria, Kodak lobbied hard and had the ASA testing regime relaxed before they could sell Tmax100 as a 100 ISO film, it consitantly failed the older testing regime, they had no US competitor to object.

Ian

[BrianShaw]

They have a price list and a 4x5"/25 sheet box is less then $25.

Oh... well, that could be a game-changer for me. Thanks for the info.

[Jody_S]

I don't think there is anything cheap about some half-priced film that you have to double your shots to hope one sheet comes out unblemished!

I am presently trying to learn/perfect my LF craft. If a sheet is ruined because of a bad emulsion, for instance if one of my rare color shots has color shifts around the edges from improper storage, I'm fine with that and I will just crop the resulting photo if there's something usable. So long as the mistake isn't mine, I can live with it. I can learn just as much from working with my present 300 shts expired tri-x 5x7 (I'm now shooting at 50-100 ASA depending on dynamic range) as I would learn if I spent several thousand $s replacing all that with fresh 8x10 film.

[Bob Salomon]

A bit of clarity Adox/EFKE 14, (the old Din name), later renamed EFKE 25 (and many years later sold with the Adox name) it is in only 25 ISO under Tungsten lighting, in fact it's more like 40-50 EI in daylight. I used to shoot both EFKE 25 and Tmax 100 at 50EI and develop them for the same time (often mixed together in the same tank) and apart from the spectral differences the tonality/gradation was similar, negatives printed on the same grade of paper.

I was on the ASA panel that was trying to standardized the synch plug for electronic flash units, studio and camera mounted, back in the early 70s.
You could not believe how many different plugs manufacturers wanted to use. The panel had been convened after a few deaths and serious injuries that were the result of people plugging a standard household plug flash cord into live wall sockets.

After we, Rollei, Honeywell, Vivitar, Ascor, Speedatron, Norman, Broncolor, Novatron, Elinchro, Bowens and whoever else was on the panel, were throgh there was absolutely no concensus and household plugs remained on many units.

ISO uses both the ASA/BS (US & UK) and DIN (German) speeds, ISO requires that films are tested either by the ASA/BS or the DIN criteria, Kodak lobbied hard and had the ASA testing regime relaxed before they could sell Tmax100 as a 100 ISO film, it consitantly failed the older testing regime, they had no US competitor to object.

Ian

[wiggywag]

Is not a ISO 25 film very unpractical with large format camera? I like to shoot sharp pictures with nice depth of field. Especially for contact printing can a difference be seen?

[Brian C. Miller]

Is not a ISO 25 film very unpractical with large format camera? I like to shoot sharp pictures with nice depth of field. Especially for contact printing can a difference be seen?

For contact printing? No. For enlarging? Yes. Typically slower films have finer grain. Techpan used to be the uncontested king of the hill. Then it went away, and we have Fuji Acros followed by Kodak TMax-100 and Ilford Delta 100. Some people have been able to develop Efke 25 with almost no grain. That's absolutely fabulous for enlarging, but of course it really doesn't matter for contact printing.

Another reason to use a slow speed film is when a shutter doesn't have a range of faster speeds. Some older shutters top out at 1/50th, so to change exposure you then have to stop down. Well, if your composition relies on a shallow DOF, you'll need a slower film. Sure, you can shoot slower and shorten your development time, but some films start to bloom or block up in the highlights, and you can't control that. The film is simply overexposed.

Also, for fine grain, there's the cool factor when you can take a 22x loupe to a negative, and count individual bricks and bicycle spokes over a block away, stuff that would be lost with a grainier film. I have just a few sheets of Techpan left, and then that's the end of it for me.

[Drew Wiley]

I find a lot of these comments odd. For one thing, TMY100 and Efke 25 were among the very few films I personally rated at box speed with consistently excellent
results. I thought TechPan was a miserable taking film due to poor tonality and weak edge effect, even with all the specialized developers. I have plenty of 8x10 sheets left of it, but for use in pan highlight masking, not general photog. Efke 25 has superb edge acutance, as does Pan F (same speed in the real world, but
completely different curve structure). Looking thru a loupe is a different ballgame than actually printing it. A grainier film might actually appear sharper in print.

[Firstlightau]

..Only if it's APX25!

[Roger Cole]

For contact printing? No. For enlarging? Yes. Typically slower films have finer grain. Techpan used to be the uncontested king of the hill. Then it went away, and we have Fuji Acros followed by Kodak TMax-100 and Ilford Delta 100. Some people have been able to develop Efke 25 with almost no grain. That's absolutely fabulous for enlarging, but of course it really doesn't matter for contact printing.

Another reason to use a slow speed film is when a shutter doesn't have a range of faster speeds. Some older shutters top out at 1/50th, so to change exposure you then have to stop down. Well, if your composition relies on a shallow DOF, you'll need a slower film. Sure, you can shoot slower and shorten your development time, but some films start to bloom or block up in the highlights, and you can't control that. The film is simply overexposed.

Also, for fine grain, there's the cool factor when you can take a 22x loupe to a negative, and count individual bricks and bicycle spokes over a block away, stuff that would be lost with a grainier film. I have just a few sheets of Techpan left, and then that's the end of it for me.

Another reason is that sometimes people want to shoot with intentionally long shutter speeds for motion studies. I hadn't really thought much about that until someone brought it up in a similar discussion on APUG. I've seen some stuff like that I liked - I forget the famous photographer but there was a series done of waves blurring over motionless rocks that was pretty well known. I can see some possibilities for that kind of thing though I've never really tried it.

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Many people ask me why do I use Efke-25 in ULF and 8x10 when I don't need to. I use the film speed to create a look to my work. It is a useful tool to give me what I see. The film has a quality for me that is hard to describe. I know it well and it suits my work. It is great for my style of carbon printing.

[ac12]

I would personally like SLOW film.
I like to shoot LONG exposure, and currently I have to use various combinations of filters to cut the light to the lens. It would be a lot simpler to just use SLOW film.

[mcfactor]

I believe that Wephota NP15 was branded as Adox Pan 25 in large format and Rollei Pan 25 in roll film. Freestyle stocked this for a while, then it just stopped.

This was by far my favorite film, the base was perfectly clear and it was incredibly sharp and beautifully toned. It also had much better quality control than efke 25.

I would love to have it again in 8x10. Ilford delta 100 is great, but it just doesnt have that same look.

[Drew Wiley]

I had just as many quality control issues (specifically, zits) with Rollei Pan 25 as with with Efke, and it lacked the shadow separation. I'm sticking with ACROS in
120 film and 4x5, or Pan F where the contrast isn't so extreme, though I still have a fair amt of Efke in the freezer for when I truly need it. With 8x10 I don't need the fine grain.

[Peter Gomena]

I really would have liked some ISO 25 film when I was trying out my shutterless rapid rectilinear lens. For anything else, I can get by with a 2-stop ND filter and 100 ISO film. Or, a larger ND filter to fit my RR lens.

[rcmartins]

I like Efke 25 a lot. I have used it for years in MF and more recently on LF. I still have a few sheets but I find it sad to see it disappear. I have never had issues with quality control and my developer soup for that film worked wonders in terms of tonal rendition, acutance and grain. The only thing that comes close in my development style is Pan-F but, as we all know, that doesn't come in sheet film. if the option came I would certainly embrace the possibility to buy 25 ASA film again, specially if it has the quality Efke 25 had. What I used it for, mainly: studio with flash, night scenes (outstanding reciprocity) and blurred water landscapes.
Most of my B&W shooting since has been done through HP5+ at EI=160.

[polyglot]

These guys are trying to demonstrate demand (http://www.flickr.com/groups/newfoma)

[cyberjunkie]

Were they not folks from Banse & Grohman? They stock Wephota NP15 - lovely 25ASA film based on older ORWO emulsions and as far as I have been told they make the runs at least once a year - and B&G then cuts the film to any size you want...

Contacted them very recently.
The 25 ISO is present in their catalogue, cut in a huge number of sizes (metric and inches - both UK and USA formats), but they wrote me that they have the 100 ISO now...
25 and 50 ISO wheren't mentioned in their email, so i guess they don't have them at the moment.
I didn't ask when the 25 ISO will be available, but i have to do it in the near future, because it's the only film i'd buy right now.
I have some Wephota, even in uncommon sizes like quarter-plate, and some old Orwo film.
I regret i bought just a few boxes, because some sizes (and the lower sensitivity films) are not available anymore from german web shops.
At least i could get the last box of Efke 25 ISO 8x10" with a recent order. :)

I guess that expressing some interest via email, and submitting a few pre-orders, would convince them (Grohman/Wephota) to give it a go

cheers

Paolo

[polyglot]

It's probably way back in this thread, or maybe in the other Efke-25 thread, but Lumiere (http://www.lumiere-shop.de/index.php?page=product&info=1478) seem to have NP-15 in some sizes.

[cowanw]

Do personal EI's lead one to shoot at less than 25 with these films?

[Frank Pittel]

It's probably way back in this thread, or maybe in the other Efke-25 thread, but Lumiere (http://www.lumiere-shop.de/index.php?page=product&info=1478) seem to have NP-15 in some sizes.


I tried buying film from them but their software wouldn't let me enter a state and the order failed because I didn't enter a state. Not sure how I'm supposed to enter the information needed to put the order through. I sent a couple of emails but weeks later they still haven't responded. I haven't found a distributor in the US for it so I've given up being able to get any of it. Sad because I'd really like to try a few boxes of the stuff.

[SpeedGraphicMan]

I loved Efke 25 for 35mm and 6x6-6x7-6x9!
I never tried it for 4x5... 100 ISO seems to give me the quality and speed I like for that...

Edit:
My E.I. was 15 developed in very dilute Rodinal

[Andrew O'Neill]

Do personal EI's lead one to shoot at less than 25 with these films?

Yup. For me, Efke 25 @ EI 16

[rcmartins]

My Ei for Efke 25 was EI = 20

[renes]

I loved Efke 25 for 35mm and 6x6-6x7-6x9!
I never tried it for 4x5... 100 ISO seems to give me the quality and speed I like for that...

Edit:
My E.I. was 15 developed in very dilute Rodinal

My EI for Adox 25 (120) was 12 ISO in APH09 (Adox's rodinal) 1:50

I love the look of Adox 25, used about 45 rolls a year, it's my favourite 120 emulsion.
Glad to have in the freezer about 160 rolls but it would be great it will survive.

[Drew Wiley]

What is unique about Efke 25 is the high-contrast long-scale tonality. I don't know of any other ultra
fine grain film with this characteristic. For pyo compatibility I have used Efke 25, Rollei Pan 25, and
Pan F all at ASA 25. But beyond that, each has its own look. The so-called micro films are really a different category, and one pays a penalty in full tonality.

[billie williams]

Funny to see this thread today because I have been fretting about how best to use my petzval outdoors without resorting to an ND filter. So count me in as someone interested in buying an ISO 25 film.