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View Full Version : Voigtlander Petzval or Euryscop? Can someone please help me identify what i have?



uticabeer
23-Jan-2013, 11:31
Hi, i was wondering if someone could help me identify my Voigtlander brass lens and if its a Petzval or other type and what the focal length might be. It measures 11 3/4 inches from front of the lens hood to rear and the lens barrel measures 5 inches across. The front element measures 4 1/8 inches across and the rear 4 1/4. The lens is marked "No. 20246 Voigtlander & Sohn, Wien, Braunschweig". Any help or info would be greatly appreciated. Cheers! 8787878754.

Steven Tribe
23-Jan-2013, 12:32
There is no "magic" catalogue which gives all the various varieties of Voigtländer Studio lenses for this period, when engraving of identity was considered unimportant.
The different lens radii are a surprise and point to a Petzval, as the Euryscop/RR models had symmetrical sets. Could be a difference in due to brass mounting.
You need to measure the approx. focal length (infinity, remember) to the Waterhouse stop. Most Petzvals sold were sleeve type designs.
4 1/8" front glass could be the Petzval size 6 or 7, with focal lengths 14 and 17 1/2" respectively.

These ancient lenses usually find excellent use as door stops!

goamules
23-Jan-2013, 12:45
If you are in possession of this lens, simply unscrew the back group, and see if there are two air-separated glass lenses. If so, it's a Petzval. Just looking at it, and the long hood, I'd say it's a Petzval.

Mark Sawyer
23-Jan-2013, 12:48
By the barrel length, it's a Petzval. If you want to double-check the formula by disassembly, the Rapid Rectilinear formula (Eurysope) has a cemented doblet front and rear, while the Petzval has a cemented doublet at the front and two air-spaced elements at the rear. Or without disassembly, look for any trace of separation at the rear, indicating the cemented rear doublet of a RR.

But it's a Petzval...

Tim Deming
23-Jan-2013, 13:06
ditto,

It's a petzval. By the length, I'd guess the 14", approx f3.16

cheers

Tim

CCHarrison
23-Jan-2013, 16:10
Per the Thos. McCollin catalogue of 1876 and by its glass measurements, this Petzval is c. 1875, and a model 6 (back focus of 11" and covers 10x12"), 7 (back focus of about 14" and covers 11x14) or 7A (back focus of about 16" and covers 14x17).

Best
Dan

Steven Tribe
23-Jan-2013, 16:36
Based on CC's information I would vote for the 7A.

I believe the A series were the ones with plain barrels. So it will not as fast as the 6 & 7 in focussing sleeves, mentioned earlier - but who cares when you get that kind of coverage!

In retrospect, the serial number is a just a little too early for the RR/Euryskop introduction.

Jim Fitzgerald
23-Jan-2013, 16:51
Welcome to the forum and great first post. I'm thinking you need to send it to us for closer inspection:-) Sorry but I could not resist. It's a Petzval so enjoy. I would vote for the 7A as well.

pierre506
23-Jan-2013, 17:04
Great lens.
Hoping to see the pix it takes asap.

CCHarrison
24-Jan-2013, 05:00
The owner checked the back focus and it was 14" making it a lucky Number 7 model.

Dan

Ole Tjugen
24-Jan-2013, 15:50
The owner checked the back focus and it was 14" making it a lucky Number 7 model.

"Back focus"? I would assume the focal length is around 10" - 240mm to 300m max. Back focus isn't all that helpful.

Steven Tribe
24-Jan-2013, 16:19
"
Back focus isn't all that helpful"

It is when the barrel has been shown alongside a tape measure.
Early listing of focal lengths in adverts often gave the, easier measured, back focus.

14" + 3 1/2" gives the eq. focal length of 17 1/2".

jodyake
25-Jan-2013, 00:31
I have an voigtlander portrait objective 7 that look a lot like this one. its my favorite lens ever. Great find.

CCHarrison
25-Jan-2013, 04:27
Back focus is VERY helpful when the catalogue tells you what it is.

The focal length for this number 7 model is listed as 17.72 inches or 453mm - see catalogue entry below

Dan

87961

Tim Deming
28-Jan-2013, 09:59
..and now on ebay! At least the seller was well informed.

goamules
28-Jan-2013, 10:23
..and now on ebay! At least the seller was well informed.

Rule of thumb: A brand new member asks specific hardware questions, which are dutifully answered in detail and at length, with no followup question or thanks from the OP = gathering data to market something. This applies to all hobby websites.

ghostcount
3-Feb-2013, 19:07
..and now on ebay! At least the seller was well informed.


Rule of thumb: A brand new member asks specific hardware questions, which are dutifully answered in detail and at length, with no followup question or thanks from the OP = gathering data to market something. This applies to all hobby websites.

How much cut did everyone get? :p

http://www.ebay.com/itm/181068874038?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

Gundlach
7-Feb-2013, 16:49
2/5ths as fast? So How fast is it? Thanks!

Gundlach
7-Feb-2013, 17:09
So is this one a 7A? ebay # 121063046400 - Just trying to gain some knowledge!

Gundlach

CCHarrison
8-Feb-2013, 04:16
The closest catalogue entry to what the seller stated as specs is the #9 model which is listed as 676mm covering 17x20

Dan

Gundlach
8-Feb-2013, 10:59
Thanks Dan, But the glass is too small...

Other than in the Questions he states: "The diameter of the front group is 4 1/4 inch. The diameter of the rear group elements is 4 3/8 inches. Hope this helps. Best, Geoff "

CCHarrison
8-Feb-2013, 11:11
If the glass measurements are precise, its a 7 or 7A. However he lists 635mm.... The 7 is 453mm and the 7A is 565mm per a 1876 catalogue.... my guess, if the lens measurements are correct, is that the lens is the 7A

Given that a very clean # 7 just sold for $ 2275, $ 15K is a bit optimistic...

Best
Dan

Tri Tran
8-Feb-2013, 11:32
So is this one a 7A? ebay # 121063046400 - Just trying to gain some knowledge!

Gundlach



Is that you Luther? if so you need to see me! I have another one of a kind Portrait Petzval lens prefect for your XXL plate work. You can try it before you commit to purchase. PM me.

Gundlach
8-Feb-2013, 12:54
Thanks again Dan, It would be hard to imagine that since this seller had the lens apart that he did not obtain fairly accurate measurements, and considering that these larger lenses seemed to jump in inch units.. Another question, Yes I saw that 7 sold for $2275.00 - I'm guessing it was about an f4? Is this what these larger lenses are going for?

No Tri I am not Luther! I am however trying to find a petzval that is fast "f3-ish" in the 275 - 300mm range- Something that would cover whole plate. What should I be looking for? Can't make allot of sense of Dan's 1890 Darlot Catalog! :)

CCHarrison
8-Feb-2013, 15:05
Gundlach - it would be easy to mis-measure the focal length. I know the seller, the question to ask is not the FL but the back focus - rear edge of lens to ground glass when infinity is in focus - that is a better and easier measurement. Again, if the glass diameter is measured properly its a 7 or 7a.

Large Petzvals are selling over a VERY WIDE pricing range. It is not a stable market right now. And yes, most common Petzvals are F/4, although some are about f/6. The Dallmeyer B series are f/3. Voigtlanders range from f/3.2 (the later "B" models) to f3.7-f/4 (most early models) to about f/6 (the later "A" models).

Might be helpful to read my Petzval lens article http://antiquecameras.net/petzvallens.html


Dan

Gundlach
8-Feb-2013, 16:30
I have read the section ( actually many sections ) wonderful service to this community! - So I guess If I want faster than f4 I'm looking at Dallmeyer or a Voightlander?. I wish the seller loads of luck when a similar model sells for $12.5k less... Thanks again!

Mark Sawyer
8-Feb-2013, 19:25
...So I guess If I want faster than f4 I'm looking at Dallmeyer or a Voightlander?

Don't forget the Vitax at f/3.8 in 13" and 16".

ghostcount
8-Feb-2013, 20:13
Don't forget the Vitax at f/3.8 in 13" and 16".

Ahem... Ross' "Quiver" #3.

Gundlach
8-Feb-2013, 21:53
Thanks Mark and Mitch! I'm familiar with the vitax, I own a 16". I have always felt that it really should be rated an f4 - forgot about the shorter focal lengths though. I new nothing of the Ross, I'll have to check them out.

ghostcount
9-Feb-2013, 03:04
...I new nothing of the Ross, I'll have to check them out.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?84339-Ross-NO-3

Gundlach
9-Feb-2013, 10:49
Quagga, Queen and Quiver - Thanks Mitch!

Gundlach