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View Full Version : Practical ULF Buying Suggestions



Frank Petronio
24-Apr-2004, 08:29
Just that - what do you suggest for starting out in 11x14 or 7x17 ULF on a reasonable budget (a couple of thousand, not tens of thousands, dollars)? Which of the vintage cameras are the best to use in the field, and might be the easiest to restore? Any particular deals on lenses and tripods? Is any particular format more cost effective than another? I am primarily interested in using film and making silver contact prints.

clay harmon
24-Apr-2004, 08:55
Hi Frank:

FWIW, my first plunge into the 7x17 world was a used Canham, and I don't regret it for a minute. It is an easy to use camera, with no rigidity or light leak issues whatsoever. After a few years, I got the bug for a 12x20, and picked up a very well restored Korona. Unfortunately, it was a night and day contrast with the modern Canham. The older cameras, while useable and certainly workable, are just a PITA in many ways. I was constantly plagued with light leaks because the springs in the back were not up to the task of holding the film holder securely against the frame during the exposure. I had to very carefully drape a dark cloth over the back of the camera, and press the spring back into the film holder as I withdrew the darkslide. I made it work, but it was a LOT of work. Not exactly conducive to taking a lot of photos. After 6 months, I just ordered another Canham and have been happy with the purchase. Keith's camera is about the same weight as the Korona (18 lbs or so), and is much more rigid. The springs in the back are super beefy. Overall, it is just a much more enjoyable experience to use the newer camera.

That said, if 7x17 is as big as you want to go, I suspect that the flimsy springs in some of the old cameras will not be as much of an issue. I know quite a few very good ULF photographers who use the old Koronas and Folmer and Schwings and are very happy with them. One suggestion I would definitely recommend for anyone using the older style cameras where the tripod mount is directly under the rear standard is the purchase of the Bogen long lens support. It will screw into the second tripod hole on the fold-down front rail, and can be clamped to one of your tripod legs. It will make the whole rail/hinge/back affair very rigid. One of the common problems with the older style banquet cameras is the floppy front rail, and this solves that problem nicely.

FWIW, i noticed recently that Lens and Repro has a restored Korona 5x12 camera listed. Now that is a nice size. Makes a decent contact print, yet can be scanned digitally and enlarged 2X for a 10x24 print. It is a very small and light camera and you could actually contemplate traveling overseas with the thing and keep the marriage working.

lots of options....

John Kasaian
24-Apr-2004, 09:12
Frank,

I use an old Ries (A-100) with my Folmer Schwing 12x20--works fine.

Probably the least expensive entry in ULF is to make a big pinhole camera.

Photo Warehouse has reasonable film(Ilford-oid) and if you luck upon an 8x12 theres the option of cutting down 9-1/2" aerial film. J and C also have good prices and availablility.

One thing I've found useful is a Unicolor 16x20 print drum for souping film. Not nearly as messy as trays.

On the recommendation of this forum, I use a Nikkor 450 M which is a lot more affordable than a 19" Dagor, has loads of coverage, and "fits" my F&S, which has a bit more limited bellows than the Koronas.

Good Luck!

Sidney Cammeresi
24-Apr-2004, 10:23
When I started thinking about buying a 4x5 enlarger, I also got the idea that instead of buying a new enlarger to make prints larger than 4x5 from LF film, I could also buy a larger camera and continue to make contact prints.

Hmm.....new enlarger.....new camera.....

So I looked on Ebay at some 8x10 cameras, but then I thought to myself that 8x10 is only twice as wide and tall as a 4x5, and that's not that big a difference, so I idly wondered if there was any 11x14 equipment up for auction. I checked, and sure enough, a guy was selling an 11x14 Wisner. He'd bought himself new about six months previously, but he said he was too old and the camera was too heavy for him to really enjoy it, so he was going back to his 8x10. The camera, a custom made case, and two S&S film holders were all up for a little under $3300. I normally prefer new equipment so I have fewer things about which to worry, but but given that this was so close to new, the camera was already made (no dealings with Wisner required), and the price was such a bargain (about $1500 cheaper than buying new), I jumped on it.

It was a bit more than I had been planning to pay, but I'm loving 11x14, and with the Wisner system, I've got the option of getting a 12x20 conversion kit in the future. The bargains are out there.

Michael Kadillak
24-Apr-2004, 10:29
Clay hit the nail on the head. Older cameras, while clearly functional, have many little things to deal with. While spring back tension can be remedied with new accessories (unless you want to keep it truly "vintage") and bellows can be fit for every application, each of these steps adds cost. One has to think about things like using back tilt to compensate for a lacking front tilt and the ability to get your film holder in and out of the camera under these "shooting" conditions. Sometimes, the rear support can get in the way with not much tilt being employed and that can be a limiting factor.

Rather than get focused on a particular brand, I would consider running an add in the local or regional paper and concurrently keeping your eyes on the market to see what shows up. Waiting on a particular brand could take years. It took me over 18 months to find my Wisner 11x14 Tech Field in the used market and I did not hesitate in closing the deal once I found it. See what turns up and above all things - be patient.

Plenty of film options as previously stated and S&S makes nice holders at a fair price.

Lastly, since you sound like a rather handy guy, there was an article several years ago in View Camera about a guy in Manteca, California that build his own 7x17 and really saved himself some money.

Cheers!

CXC
24-Apr-2004, 10:56
Frank, one more thing: remember that film holders are not standardized for sizes over 11x14. Make sure you have a complete understanding of the type required and a reliable source for them, if you buy a camera unaccompanied by holders. And calculate their exhorbitant cost into your price considerations.

I just picked up a Korona 12x20 off of ePay, because it was available. I've heard bad things about Korona, but the thing is definitely usable. ULF is such a slow and meticulous process anyway, that having to baby the camera a bit doesn't seem like too much trouble, IMHO.

I probably would be better served by an 11x14, since that is my preferred print size. But I accidentally bought a 12x20...

Regards,

Jorge Gasteazoro
24-Apr-2004, 11:14
The thing with older cameras is that while they might look good on the outside you have to take them apart and check them for wood rot. People with good intentions but little knowledge of how to take care of wood usually use liquid wood polishes which get in between the metal parts.

This happened to me, I bought an old Korona that looked great, but once I took it apart I found all kinds of small problems which once fixed made the camera very usable. Certainly is not as nice as using a new camera, but I did not have $5000 to spend on a camera. So for $1000 I got me one that works fine after some elbow grease.

My advice, look for the Folmer & Schwing cameras, they are better than Koronas. Once you get it, take it apart and either fix or have a carpenter fix any problems that might be present in the wood. Do not get the ones advertised as "fixer uppers" as they have far more problems than what is worth. Once they are fixed they are perfectly usable and you dont have to worry about scratching a $5000 camera..:-)

A Nikkor 450 will run you from 650 to 750 bucks, but the most important consideration is the tripod. I bought a Gitzo CF since I got it for a very good deal, but at this point a tripod that saves you weight should not be a consideration. I have heard Berleback is a very good tripod for the price from people who have bought them, it seems they are just as good as the Ries and far cheaper.

I gotta tell you, ULF is a lot of fun and it is worth the couple of thou entrance price.

sanking
24-Apr-2004, 11:47
Just want to mention that I have a friend with a 12X20 Folmer and Schwing for sale. If anyone is interested contact me off-list and I will put you in contact with him.

Hope this message does not violate protcol. If so, my apoligies.

e
24-Apr-2004, 12:48
Best deal out there for ULF is a new Wisner 7x17 at $3195. Around 10lbs. I own a old Korona 12x20 as well as a new Wisner 12x20 and while I really like the Korona for its vibe and history there is really no comparison to having a new camera. If you get into ULF, eventually you will want to buy a new one anyway so why not start off right. The only way I would buy an older ULF is if it was a fantastic deal. My Korona 12x20 was $600- w/dagor and 1 holder. The retiring photographer had six 12x20 set ups to sell...I should have bought the whole lot. That was five years ago and they are all sold now so dont even think about it, I try not to. Wisner is a great camera and if you are willing to have some/much patience before and after the delivery then you can save a bunch over the other brands by 25% or more. I have on order a 12x20 and a 7x17 Wisner, new for sale due in (overdue) soon if you are interested. Barrell/process lenses are nice and cheap and work great if you dont mind using your lenscap or hat instead of a shutter. You will be stopping down anyway so it is a mute point as the exposures are in the seconds if not the minutes. Tripod and filmholders will cost you a bit.

John D Gerndt
24-Apr-2004, 14:38
I am not sure how far you have investigated but you may be taken aback by the cost of film holders, they can be as much as $500 each! You must start from the back when buying a ULF. You must match the camera back with some holders and then go forward to how the front standard can be manipulated relative to the rear to make your decision on which camera to buy.

Deals on tripods: look to a surveyor’s wooden tripod. The tripod head is more of an issue than the legs. If you are strong enough to get the ULF camera close to level then you could make yourself a three-point screw leveling plate and be golden.

Process lenses can be a great buy. Find yourself a large and well functioning Packard shutter first. It will dictate how much glass you can adapt to it.

The other aspects of ULF have already been well covered.

Best of luck in the assembly of your ULF package.

Cheers,

Frank Petronio
24-Apr-2004, 20:07
Thanks everyone. I will keep my eyes open for a good deal on a used modern camera or a nice Folmer and Schwing. I do a bit of woodworking and use to build models, so fixing something up doesn't scare me. I did have a 7x17 Korona years ago and I agree, it is usable but flimsy. I'm not any any hurry, I don't expect to shoot more than 20 images a year, but I need a counterpoint to shooting so many digital shots...

Any tips for keeping the film from sagging? Are the newer holders, like the S&S, better in this regard? I had to tape the film in my old 7x17 holders, which frankly, spoiled the nice film edges.

Richard Wasserman
25-Apr-2004, 09:26
Frank, I use S&S holders in my 8x20 Korona and they work very well. I have not noticed a problem with film flatness and they fit my camera perfectly. They are also easy to load and they look pretty too, I reccommend them. I wish my camera was as good as the holders.

Joe Smigiel
26-Apr-2004, 09:45
Frank,

Another thing to consider is the size of lensboards for the camera. In my case, I wanted/needed a board capable of taking a large, heavy, portrait lens in front of a Packard Shutter. The shutter measures 8 1/2" square. As far as I know, the only 11x14 cameras capable of holding such a beast are the Deardorff and the 11x14 Burke & James models. It took me well over a year to acquire a Burke & James at what I considered a fair price. (I suppose I could front mount the shutter, but I wanted it inside the camera. Another option would be an old Studio Shutter but finding a working one in a size that would handle the lens is problematic.) The B&J can be taken into the field but the Deardorff is not what I would consider to be portable so I was left with a single model to choose from. If you have no need for such bulky lenses and are only doing landscapes, many other cameras and smaller lenses both old and new would fit the bill.

I also have an 11x14 ROC camera that is much, much lighter and would be better for landscapes although it is limited in bellows draw and requires relatively short focal length lenses with larger angles of coverage. So, there is a tradeoff between portability and functionality when considering ULF cameras and a single model simply cannot do everything. You need to carefully consider what you want the camera to do. A new $6,600 camera may not do what you need while an $800 used camera may.