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Greg Blank
19-Jan-2013, 14:35
Took up TIG welding about three years ago and this is the current end product, finished corner welded frame,...using commonly obtained materials from Home Depot.

http://www.gbphotoworks.com/WeldedFrame.jpg

John Fink Jr.
20-Jan-2013, 12:57
Nice Greg!!

ROL
21-Jan-2013, 09:29
I'm not one for the presentation of multiple photographs in a single frame (sans diptych or triptych), but I do admire anyone with welding skills, and have threatened to take it up myself more than once in the last few years. Good work.

Greg Blank
21-Jan-2013, 20:20
Thank you. I decided to do this frame and five other smaller ones as part of my Christmas presents this past year, the group of images was a request by my fiancee, places we went together last year. I also prefer single images standing on there own merits, but when the future Mrs. says what she wants I sort of have learned to comply ;) After all she did buy the bandsaw for me before Christmas to complete the project! I did a limited showing of images this year in two gallery shows, I intended to do more shows and more frames but its been a truely crazy year. I left Omega Brandess in Feb for good reason, then shattered my right arm elbow requiring 8 screws and two plates at my new FT job. I fixed a couple of Jobos and got people good Jobo stuff. So I've been busy as always...but always appreciate being in touch with the good people on this forum. Right now I am building a storage shelving system for prints, I'll post that on the DIY self area... to keep the modiration happy :)

Kirk Gittings
21-Jan-2013, 20:26
Did you have any problem with the heat warping the frames?

Greg Blank
21-Jan-2013, 21:43
No, & Although Tig welding is not cooler than any other type of welding, its more focused. The shielding gas "Argon" that is used plus the ability to use tungsten electrodes of smaller diameter than say mig and stick welders does not spread heat or spatter the same way. I welded these inside my house in the basement, I have a blower that removes some fumes...I need to make it a bit stronger but with TIG its not the choking kind of smoke that stick welders give off. With the Tig its a simple set of techniques to eliminate warping.Main thing is just knowing how fast to travel, when to add metal and when to grind :) The biggest thing other welders have told me is Tig requires eye hand dexterity,... like drawing, if you have it - you can do it.

Kirk Gittings
21-Jan-2013, 22:05
In my youth I was a very good stick welder-made my living at it for a few years but haven't touched it since maybe '76. I've always wanted to get back into welding as a hobby. How much do you have invested?

rdenney
22-Jan-2013, 07:12
No, & Although Tig welding is not cooler than any other type of welding, its more focused. The shielding gas "Argon" that is used plus the ability to use tungsten electrodes of smaller diameter than say mig and stick welders does not spread heat or spatter the same way. I welded these inside my house in the basement, I have a blower that removes some fumes...I need to make it a bit stronger but with TIG its not the choking kind of smoke that stick welders give off. With the Tig its a simple set of techniques to eliminate warping.Main thing is just knowing how fast to travel, when to add metal and when to grind :) The biggest thing other welders have told me is Tig requires eye hand dexterity,... like drawing, if you have it - you can do it.

I have a MIG welder that is big enough (maybe) for projects like this, but I don't have the hand dexterity any more. That would come with practice, but damn I already have too many hobbies.

We have a friend who is a local welder of great skill. He has agreed to take me on and teach me, and I'm a supreme idiot for not taking him up on it yet. Gotta do that!

As far as warpage goes, a good jig and going back and forth front to back would seem to be the trick. That's how the bicycle frame makers do it.

Rick "suspecting a TIG rig is about five or ten times the price of a cheapie MIG welder" Denney

Jody_S
22-Jan-2013, 09:28
Rick "suspecting a TIG rig is about five or ten times the price of a cheapie MIG welder" Denney

You can buy a Chinese combo stick-TIG-plasma cutter for well under $1K. They work quite well.

Greg Blank
22-Jan-2013, 11:40
I decided two years ago to buy a Lincoln electric Square wave 175. Not the most expensive but met my requirements of being able to weld aluminum. Lincoln comes with a three year warranty, is a profitable employee owned company. They do buy some components abroad but most of thier are welders built in the us.

Pawlowski6132
22-Jan-2013, 11:58
Wow. Outstanding. Will you make me some 11x14 frames???

Jody_S
22-Jan-2013, 13:02
Lincoln comes with a three year warranty, is a profitable employee owned company. They do buy some components abroad but most of thier are welders built in the us.

I can vouch for the fact that they're nearly indestructible. Well, the older stuff is, I have no experience with the newer gear except for the Chinese combos, and I've used some Miller machines I can't personally afford to buy.

Greg Blank
22-Jan-2013, 19:47
Not sure I could do them cost effectively for what another photographer would pay, I would not sell them cheaper than what a professional welder would or even a frame shop, the frame I posted took me at least ten hours. The key aspect for a group of frames is consistency, which at this point I need practice to accomplish. I also did 5 - 6x9 frames for family between mid Nov and Christmas, using the same materials and techniques...each one varied a bit in size which complicated the assembly process- though it was less consequential because the frames went to individual family members.


Wow. Outstanding. Will you make me some 11x14 frames???

Greg Blank
22-Jan-2013, 19:56
For warpage, you can tack weld then fill in the main seams. However a continous bead is the most desirable method. Using my
band saw to cut the mitered corners the join areas have a very close fit. I typically don't require a lot of filler metal, which in Tig is hand held....versus Mig which is auto fed. I have used two types of Mig the first being Flux core,- messy and spatters- though less than stick. Second Mig was with a gas hook up, probably the easiest to learn but fine welds are still in my opinion where the Tig shines.

paulr
22-Jan-2013, 22:05
Greg, this is pretty uncanny. I was imagining something like this for the body of work I'm putting together now. I don't weld so I spent a couple of afternoons googling welded steel frames and coming up with nuthin'.

Brian C. Miller
22-Jan-2013, 22:21
Paul, do a web search for "custom welding," as something like a picture frame wouldn't be all that difficult for a commercial fabrication shop to throw together. Send them a picture of what Greg did, and ask several of them about it. Also, what about soldering? A frame could be brazed together. A frame could be made out of rigid copper pipe, too.

paulr
22-Jan-2013, 23:10
I'll do that, Brian. Definitely welded, though. Ideally brushed stainless steel. Possibly some artist who welds in NYC is looking for a job on the side.

Greg Blank
23-Jan-2013, 05:27
I would not do soldiered copper. It would in no way hold up to the handling. Even welded copper is a bad idea, becuase of the strength issues related to the welds.

Brian C. Miller
23-Jan-2013, 09:18
Greg, this is supposed to be a picture frame that hangs on the wall, right? How much stress can there be if wood, sometimes stapled together, is used? I have read about one photographer who makes his own frames, using fine furniture construction techniques. But stress, like I think of the stress of riding a brazed bicycle frame, definitely isn't happening with a picture frame. Hmmm, a ridable picture frame ... there's a thought...

rdenney
23-Jan-2013, 09:24
I'll do that, Brian. Definitely welded, though. Ideally brushed stainless steel. Possibly some artist who welds in NYC is looking for a job on the side.

If you don't mind putting in a little of your own labor, you could cut the pieces, have them welded by a welder, and then grind the welds smooth and do the finishing yourself. Those activities require only a little practice and maybe a couple of power tools, rather than the significant training required for welding, especially stainless steel.

Rick "reminding myself of building bicycle frames" Denney

Sal Santamaura
23-Jan-2013, 09:48
Not being interested in welding things myself, but appreciating the potential for such frames and their lack of the ugly (to me) miter gaps seen with sectional frames, I found this manufacturer:


http://www.smallcorp.com/aluminum.html

They're not inexpensive, but the cost wasn't exorbitant either. Beautiful powder coated finishes. This company doesn't sell direct; one must order through a framing shop. Also offered in steel:


http://www.smallcorp.com/weldedsteel.html

paulr
23-Jan-2013, 11:25
Thanks Sal, I'll check those guys out. Rick, that's a good suggestion. Might have to try one before committing to finishing all of them ...

Greg Blank
23-Jan-2013, 17:51
I don't like the looks of their welded steel. It looks like the weld is the only area that has been ground to accept the weld (in other words there is still mill scale - at least in the photos). I wonder if they are coating the steel at all? If not the issue then becomes will the oxides leach into the mat support and ultimately my art.



Not being interested in welding things myself, but appreciating the potential for such frames and their lack of the ugly (to me) miter gaps seen with sectional frames, I found this manufacturer:


http://www.smallcorp.com/aluminum.html

They're not inexpensive, but the cost wasn't exorbitant either. Beautiful powder coated finishes. This company doesn't sell direct; one must order through a framing shop. Also offered in steel:


http://www.smallcorp.com/weldedsteel.html

Peter De Smidt
23-Jan-2013, 17:53
Nice work, Greg! I'm wishing I had the money for a tig welder!

Greg Blank
23-Jan-2013, 18:06
Brian-Glued wood is dynamically very strong and resilient. Welded steel if done properly is very strong- yet heavy. I know becuase this past year I have been working as an Art handler/a Receiving Clerk for 3 galleries and a frame shop. Welded frames we buy get really heavy at 48 x 72. Anyway, the problem with a soldiered copper joint, is soldier does not take any strength from the copper. The copper only gets a surface impregnation from the liquid soldier. That works ok with vertical plumbing when two copper pipes are joined but I think you would find it unsatifactory for a large frame using 90 degree miters- of course one could try 90 degree elbows that might make the over all more rigid. You could add a wooden backer frame cut with a jig saw or scroll saw, again that might be more rigid- meaning cutting the tubes in half making the backer inobvious from the front.


Greg, this is supposed to be a picture frame that hangs on the wall, right? How much stress can there be if wood, sometimes stapled together, is used? I have read about one photographer who makes his own frames, using fine furniture construction techniques. But stress, like I think of the stress of riding a brazed bicycle frame, definitely isn't happening with a picture frame. Hmmm, a ridable picture frame ... there's a thought...

Greg Blank
23-Jan-2013, 18:22
Most of the work is in the grinding before and after the welds. I look at these frames as what is my time worth. The problem with grinding is metal grinding sucks, the particulate is very sharp, you get sparks that require care with regard to where you shoot them and wearing a face shield, dust mask etc is a pain & a very good idea. I have a lot of welding projects - many are photo related as well as other ideas I have kicking around in the back of my head. Still trying to convince my fiancee to ride with me in the helicopter ;) For what its worth stainless steel requires more precaution, unlike regular old carbon steel - stainless once its inside you will not rust away into your blood stream. Hexavalent chrome vapors are also carcinogenic, something to consider if you are doing a lot of stainless welding.


If you don't mind putting in a little of your own labor, you could cut the pieces, have them welded by a welder, and then grind the welds smooth and do the finishing yourself. Those activities require only a little practice and maybe a couple of power tools, rather than the significant training required for welding, especially stainless steel.

Rick "reminding myself of building bicycle frames" Denney

Sal Santamaura
23-Jan-2013, 18:39
...Also offered in steel:


http://www.smallcorp.com/weldedsteel.html


I don't like the looks of their welded steel. It looks like the weld is the only area that has been ground to accept the weld (in other words there is still mill scale - at least in the photos). I wonder if they are coating the steel at all? If not the issue then becomes will the oxides leach into the mat support and ultimately my art.Sorry, I've no experience with their steel frames. The only ones I've purchased from them are powder-coated welded aluminum.

rdenney
23-Jan-2013, 20:00
Most of the work is in the grinding before and after the welds. I look at these frames as what is my time worth. The problem with grinding is metal grinding sucks, the particulate is very sharp, you get sparks that require care with regard to where you shoot them and wearing a face shield, dust mask etc is a pain & a very good idea.

Paying someone to do that grinding would therefore be expensive, and many people have more time than money. Face sheilds and a portable grinder can both be had at Home Depot for not so much money. TIG welders are a lot more expensive, but also require skills far beyond what grinding does. Those skills deserve an appropriate hourly fee. So, let the expensive expert do the hard part that justifies his skill and pay, but do the grunt work yourself--that was what I was suggesting.

Rick "who has neither the time nor the money" Denney

Brian C. Miller
23-Jan-2013, 23:35
... but I think you would find it unsatifactory for a large frame using 90 degree miters- of course one could try 90 degree elbows that might make the over all more rigid.

I'm sure that I would find that soldering a 90-degree mitered joint on copper would be unsatisfactory! :) :eek:

No, I was thinking of the normal plumbing elbows, or something like the brazed lugs on a bicycle. Bicycle lugs are considered things of beauty. By bicyclists, anyways. A 90-degree mitered joint would have to be brazed with internal lugs to be rigid. Otherwise it would be a cosmetic joint, and would easily and quickly break.