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photoevangelist
16-Jan-2013, 18:34
87481874828748387484

I had no intention of getting into the 5x7 format, but for around $100 and all the information going around about restoring these old cameras who could resist? :cool:

photoevangelist
16-Jan-2013, 18:39
87485

The photo is of the wood pieces sanded down with sealer. I'm no master wood crafter, as you can easily tell by the photos. In fact, this is my first project of the sort.

I sanded the paint down to the base by hand. 150 sandpaper followed by 220 followed by 400. Coated with DecoArt's Wood Sealer - only thing I could find locally.

photoevangelist
16-Jan-2013, 18:46
87486

Stained with Jo Sonja's Wood Stain Gel in Walnut, best tone for the options that were available.
Varnished with DecoArt's DuraClear Matte Varnish.
Treated with DecoArt's Acrylic Sealer/Finisher.

If I had to do this again, I'd just varnish the cherry wood. I've already got red bellows on order from Rudy at ecbuyonline2008 and didn't think the cherry would look as good with the red bellows.

Ken Lee
16-Jan-2013, 20:01
If I had to do this again, I'd just varnish the cherry wood. I've already got red bellows on order from Rudy at ecbuyonline2008 and didn't think the cherry would look as good with the red bellows.


http://www.kenleegallery.com/images/forum/2DSnow.jpg

Here's one with original red bellows and cherry wood, not restored or altered (except for a new strap).

I'm eager to see yours when it's finished: it will certainly look very handsome.

C. D. Keth
16-Jan-2013, 20:12
That'll look great and work for another hundred years. I don't know how you are with leather but if you don't want to bother making a handle, search for trunk handles. A lot of them are made for similar hardware to your camera. You'd just have to look for a little bit to find one that fits.

Roger Thoms
16-Jan-2013, 20:19
Hey I thought that 2D's were made with Mahogany, never heard of any in Cherry. I have 3 and they are Mahogany.

Roger

C. D. Keth
16-Jan-2013, 20:35
The one I restored a few years ago was mahogany. I wouldn't be surprised if some exist in different woods due to supply issues.

jumanji
17-Jan-2013, 02:13
Hey I thought 2D's were always made by cherry :p. I owned one, and my friends have 3. All are 8x10 with cherry. I never seen a 2D with mahogany :confused:.

Hey I thought that 2D's were made with Mahogany, never heard of any in Cherry. I have 3 and they are Mahogany.

Roger

photoevangelist
17-Jan-2013, 02:32
http://www.kenleegallery.com/images/forum/2DSnow.jpg

Here's one with original red bellows and cherry wood, not restored or altered (except for a new strap).

I'm eager to see yours when it's finished: it will certainly look very handsome.

Beautiful! Mine was so rough I could only want to restore it. For a hundred bucks it was a steal! Would be nice to have one in great original condition like yours. Love to have a 7x11 version.

photoevangelist
17-Jan-2013, 02:33
That'll look great and work for another hundred years. I don't know how you are with leather but if you don't want to bother making a handle, search for trunk handles. A lot of them are made for similar hardware to your camera. You'd just have to look for a little bit to find one that fits.

I bought a Deardorff handle from Barry in Tennessee for $17.

Yeah now the camera will out live me and probably the 5x7 film format. I gotta learn how to do plates, paper negatives, or the likes.

photoevangelist
17-Jan-2013, 03:03
Hey I thought 2D's were always made by cherry :p. I owned one, and my friends have 3. All are 8x10 with cherry. I never seen a 2D with mahogany :confused:.

I purchased your 12" Dagor to make portraits on this camera. :)

jumanji
17-Jan-2013, 03:32
It will be great for your 5x7 :).

photoevangelist
18-Jan-2013, 17:25
Ken Lee, I just realized I've been to your website numerous times lately for tech guidance. :)

photoevangelist
18-Jan-2013, 17:44
Cleaning my brass was difficult. I read a blog about soaking it in Pure Ammonia for 1 hour. I soaked mine for 4 hours and still didn't come off easily. After that, I boiled the brass in vinegar (all I could find here was brown rice vinegar) for about 5 min. Both of those processes loosened some of the grime. I then followed that with letting each piece sit in ketchup for 30-45 min. I used a brass metal brush to scrub when I needed to get difficult spots and a car wash sponge elsewhere. I then scrubbed the pieces down with a heavy baking soda mixed with water paste. Finally, I used another paste made with Bar Keeper's Friend to polish it. Final step was to wash in a water bath and then dry.

1. 4 hour Pure Ammonia bath (I've never been able to find pure ammonia in Korea, but luckily found one at an American import store on 40% clearance sale)
2. 5 min. bath in boiling vinegar
3. Soaked in ketchup for 30-45 min.
4. Scrubbed with baking soda paste (water + baking soda ~1:1)
5. Polished with Bar Keeper's Friend Paste (water + Bar Keeper's Friend ~1:10) - international buyers can find this on the auction site for $3-4 + $10 shipping (took about 2 weeks to arrive)
6. Water Bath, then dry

I have no idea if this is kosher or not for the brass. I read about how to use various household items to clean and polish brass. I found after a few attempts that this method worked for me.

Bill_1856
18-Jan-2013, 18:38
Could it be that the Model 2 was cherry, while the 2D was mahagony? (The "D" meaning dark finish.)

photoevangelist
18-Jan-2013, 19:15
My camera says 2-D and could very well be mahagony (like it's original finish). When sanded down, it's a cherry sort of color to it. I assumed mahagony was darker. I don't know a lot about woods. It was my first project dealing with wood.

Roger Thoms
18-Jan-2013, 22:34
My camera says 2-D and could very well be mahagony (like it's original finish). When sanded down, it's a cherry sort of color to it. I assumed mahagony was darker. I don't know a lot about woods. It was my first project dealing with wood.

Unfinished mahogany and cherry have a similar color. Mahogany has a more open grain and is a little denser and heavier than cherry. It is also a little harder.

Sounds like your project is coming along. The brass must have been a lot of work, would be cools to see some pictures, must look very nice. On my WP 2D I cleaned a few areas of the brass where it was heavily discolored but just enough to match the patina of the rest. That was quite a bit of work, can't imagine doing all of it.

Roger

photoevangelist
18-Jan-2013, 23:21
Unfinished mahogany and cherry have a similar color. Mahogany has a more open grain and is a little denser and heavier than cherry. It is also a little harder.

Sounds like your project is coming along. The brass must have been a lot of work, would be cools to see some pictures, must look very nice. On my WP 2D I cleaned a few areas of the brass where it was heavily discolored but just enough to match the patina of the rest. That was quite a bit of work, can't imagine doing all of it.

Roger

I'll get more pictures up next week. Brass is finished, but I individually wrapped and labeled all the piece groups with their matching screws. Even the piece groups had different size screws! I knew if I did them all together it would be difficult for me to regroup them. Between doing this in our apartment with a 3 year old and working in it in my office, I've been really lucky to not have any pieces missing. A few screws fell into the sink and almost lost them, but I managed to grab them before they fell down the drain into oblivion.

Thank you very much for you description of the different woods.

Ken Lee
19-Jan-2013, 08:04
http://www.kenleegallery.com/images/forum/2d8x10.jpg


As shown in the above photo, Kodak 2D cameras have 2 rail sections: one in front which is attached to the base and folds up - and another in the rear which detaches. There is a nice old catalog illustration here (http://www.piercevaubel.com/cam/ekc/2d.htm).

If we're using only short lenses, we don't need to attach the rear rail section. That feature can make the camera more compact and portable. A lens can be kept on the camera: just fold the front up for transport. It's a very clever design: a folding rail camera.

http://www.kenleegallery.com/images/forum/2dfolded.jpg

photoevangelist
19-Jan-2013, 08:15
http://www.kenleegallery.com/images/forum/2d8x10.jpg


As shown in the above photo, Kodak 2D cameras have 2 rail sections: one in front which is attached to the base and folds up - and another in the rear which detaches. There is a nice old catalog illustration here (http://www.piercevaubel.com/cam/ekc/2d.htm).

If we're using only short lenses, we don't need to attach the rear rail section. That feature can make the camera more compact and portable. A lens can be kept on the camera: just fold the front up for transport. It's a very clever design: a folding rail camera.

http://www.kenleegallery.com/images/forum/2dfolded.jpg

The rear rail attachment was missing in mine. I am searching for one, even though I probably won't be able to find one soon.

photoevangelist
19-Jan-2013, 08:18
How often do the 7x11 format cameras come around? That would be an interesting format to work with.

photoevangelist
21-Jan-2013, 00:59
87761

Yanke ground glass from Rudy (ecbuyonline2008 on the bay) and replacement GG clips from Barry (attrevita on the bay) both came in the mail today to make this assembly possible. I'm not endorsed by them, I just really appreciate their kind and helpful customer service.

goamules
22-Jan-2013, 11:16
On the wood they used, the upper parts are mahogany. The rails are a harder wood, I've read cherry, and always believed it from their appearance. But most cameras, including graflex under the black leather, are mahogany. The D in 2D just stood for the godawful dark stain they started using, during the art deco period when black and dark looked "modern." Hence, all the cameras started becoming black instead of beautiful, glowing wood, and all the brass lenses started being lacquered black.

On brass stripping, be very careful soaking them in acids like vinegar. While that will strip them, it also leaches out the copper, and redeposits it on the surface. Basically, you copper plate your brass, turning it a shade of red!

photoevangelist
22-Jan-2013, 14:46
On the wood they used, the upper parts are mahogany. The rails are a harder wood, I've read cherry, and always believed it from their appearance. But most cameras, including graflex under the black leather, are mahogany. The D in 2D just stood for the godawful dark stain they started using, during the art deco period when black and dark looked "modern." Hence, all the cameras started becoming black instead of beautiful, glowing wood, and all the brass lenses started being lacquered black.

On brass stripping, be very careful soaking them in acids like vinegar. While that will strip them, it also leaches out the copper, and redeposits it on the surface. Basically, you copper plate your brass, turning it a shade of red!

Thanks for your additional info, Garrett.

How do you think my camera is coming along? I got the red color you mentioned, but it came out in the 3rd step soaking in in ketchup for 30-40 min. Only putting it in ketchup wasn't enough to remove the grime and tarnish.

I found some paint and varnish remover yesterday. (Korea doesn't have a store like Home Depot or Lowes where you can find everything to build a house, etc.). Before I re-piece this I've been thinking about stripping the paint and just going with the original wood color. My 5x7 film still has about a week to arrive so I have some time to spare before I can film test this camera. 4x5 is the only large format that is sold in Korea. You can get 8x10, but its all expired stock from 2009ish and cost more than ordering fresh importing from abroad.

photoevangelist
6-Feb-2013, 05:10
The camera is now 98% complete. Just missing the handle strap (and need to adjust one of my made lens boards to accept a larger flange for my Dagor 12"). Hoping to do the first film test tomorrow! If I had to paint it again, I'd choose a dark blue with red bellows. I didn't know what I was doing was painting it. I thought I was staining the wood. This was my first attempt with wood. But I'd much rather have the natural color of the wood with black bellows I think. This doo-doo brown is not bad with the red bellows. As long as it's light tight, I'll be happy! I am very proud of it!

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8236/8450611722_4c510fccaf.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/lee_smathers/8450611722/)
Eastman Kodak 2-D 5x7 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/lee_smathers/8450611722/) by Lee Smathers (http://www.flickr.com/people/lee_smathers/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8089/8450611604_266005abea.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/lee_smathers/8450611604/)
Eastman Kodak 2-D 5x7 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/lee_smathers/8450611604/) by Lee Smathers (http://www.flickr.com/people/lee_smathers/), on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8216/8450611494_1a1d48437f.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/lee_smathers/8450611494/)
Eastman Kodak 2-D 5x7 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/lee_smathers/8450611494/) by Lee Smathers (http://www.flickr.com/people/lee_smathers/), on Flickr

Ken Lee
6-Feb-2013, 05:36
Beautiful !

mikebarger
6-Feb-2013, 09:08
Looks really nice, if you don't like the stain..I suspect you used a high solids stain rather than a tinted transparent stain.

Mike

Noah B
6-Feb-2013, 18:30
Great looking camera!!

goamules
6-Feb-2013, 19:58
It looks brand new, good job.

Jim Fitzgerald
6-Feb-2013, 20:42
Lee, beautiful job. Congratulations on the refinishing. How do you like the bellows? Quality, smell, weight price? I'm building my 8x10 and I'm going to need to order my bellows soon and I'm wondering about ecobuy. I've used Custom Bellows in England and Western Bellows here in California. Just curious about what your thoughts are.

ImSoNegative
6-Feb-2013, 22:36
excellent

photoevangelist
7-Feb-2013, 01:16
Thanks everyone!


Lee, beautiful job. Congratulations on the refinishing. How do you like the bellows? Quality, smell, weight price? I'm building my 8x10 and I'm going to need to order my bellows soon and I'm wondering about ecobuy. I've used Custom Bellows in England and Western Bellows here in California. Just curious about what your thoughts are.

I don't know how to compare it to other bellows, but Rudy is really very helpful. I couldn't figure out how to instal the bellows so I mailed the frames off to him and he did them for me at no extra charge. My advice is if someone doesn't feel comfortable doing bellows themselves to just discuss with Rudy about sending your frames and having him do it for you. But I assume with your experience you could do it on your own. The red isn't as red as I thought. I was expecting Costco red. But the darker shade is nice.

Curt
7-Feb-2013, 03:10
Hey I thought that 2D's were made with Mahogany, never heard of any in Cherry. I have 3 and they are Mahogany.

Roger

...and mine, 5x7 & 8x10 have brown bellows...

Curt
7-Feb-2013, 03:34
I had ecbuyonline2008 make my 11x14 bellows. It stinks, is wrinkled, scuffed up and not made right. ACTUALLY!!!! It's as good as any commercially made bellows I've seen.

Like I said before on a thread, no smell, except the new material smell, made to order, carefully wrapped, shipped fast, no tax, no import duty, free shipping. One drawback, they don't bring it over to your house and install it personally because its made in Hong Kong, now China, was a BCC.

Penumbra
7-Feb-2013, 07:53
Lovely camera; I'd like to have one that nice. Great job on the restoration.

Ken Lee
7-Feb-2013, 08:44
The other nice thing about the camera is that scanned at 2000spi it's a 122 megapixel capture device, representing the latest in 1930's technology :cool:

mdm
8-Feb-2013, 14:39
I also had ecbuyonline make me a set of 11x14 bellows, they are very well made from 3M cloth, dont stink and are really supurb. I have recently got a whole plate set made and while they are very functional and more than adequate, they are made from much flimsier materials, smell of glue and the workmanship is not quite as good, but they fit perfectly and I am very relieved not to have had to make them myself. He may be using different cloth because he knows I am using IR film a fair bit, but its hard to know untill I have installed them and used them. Rudy is a pleasure to deal with.

ShawnHoke
8-Feb-2013, 19:25
Really gorgeous camera, Lee. I have a beat up 8x10 2D that I love, but your beauty puts it to shame!

photoevangelist
9-Feb-2013, 06:14
Thank you all for your complements! I was out today shooting for the first time with the camera and was using my new 12" Dagor for a lot of the shots. Which is odd because I almost never shoot with a longer lens. I usually like wide for landscapes. I was using it and the 210 Symmar-s if I wanted a bit wider ( but its probably normal). I'll upload a few when I develop them. If I previsualized correctly, I got some great shots!

Michael Cienfuegos
9-Feb-2013, 12:45
What a beautiful camera! Mine looks like something the cat dragged in, but the bellows are light tight. My 5x7 2D has brown bellows, my 8x10 has reddish bellows. I guess they are a faded red, but still light tight.
Following these threads on restoring old Kodak 2D cameras has given me impetus to restore one of mine. I have a 5x7 reducing back for my 8x10, so I might attempt the 5x7 first, then do the 8x10. Time will tell. Thanks again for sharing this wonderful camera. :)

photoevangelist
9-Feb-2013, 16:00
What a beautiful camera! Mine looks like something the cat dragged in, but the bellows are light tight. My 5x7 2D has brown bellows, my 8x10 has reddish bellows. I guess they are a faded red, but still light tight.
Following these threads on restoring old Kodak 2D cameras has given me impetus to restore one of mine. I have a 5x7 reducing back for my 8x10, so I might attempt the 5x7 first, then do the 8x10. Time will tell. Thanks again for sharing this wonderful camera. :)

They are really easy to do. Just mark all your parts well because the screws are all different sizes. I photographed every piece as I was taking it apart too. The hardest part for me was cleaning all the sanded dust in my office. I'll never do that again! I don't have any other work area at its been way bellow freezing to want to attempt it outside.

My advice. Use a paint & varnish remover. I couldn't find one. Korea isn't my home country and Korean isn't my native language. I should have asked for help to find some. Don't use the gel stains. Again, I couldn't find any better stains until it was too late. If you have no experience with installing bellows, maybe you want to think about disassembling the camera first and mail your bellows frames to the place where you will buy them so they can install them for you. I would have been using this camera about one month earlier if I had done all of that.

It's a fun project. Not many cameras go up in value. I think this one has.