Manfrotto 405 geared head, satisfactory for 8x10?

[Daniel Stone]

Hey all,

I've been looking to do some changes in my gear, once and for all. As many of you know, I've done a good bit of 'changing my pants' so to speak over the past two years, trying this, trying that, etc... I've become tired of this constant struggle to find optimum equipment that will work seamlessly for me, and not be a burden or a hindrance.

OK, enough with the bull**** ;)!
I'm looking at geared heads, tripod heads that is. One head to work with 35mm film/digital up through 8x10(soon to be a used 8x10 Arca F-line, once I've got all the money together later this week). So... After looking at the options, and assessing my budget for this(I've decided to spend a little bit more since I want this to be a 1-time purchase), I've come to find the Manfrotto 405 seems to fit the bill.

Does anyone here use an 8x10 camera on a Manfrotto 405 geared head? If so, what's your thoughts on it, as a whole?
I like geared movements, as I really like to fine tune composition on the g/g with precision. I'm not looking for 'lightweight' equipment per-se, but lighter would be nice, but not if it sacrifices rigidity.

Thoughts and/or opinions on this product would be greatly appreciated.

thanks,
Dan

[C. D. Keth]

Have you considered the 400 geared head?

[Daniel Stone]

Hey Christopher,

Yes, I've looked at the 400, however its simply too big size-wise. Now, the 405 isn't 'small', but to me it definitely seems smaller than the 400.

A $200 price difference also plays into my decision as well 405 over 400

-Dan

[C. D. Keth]

I think you might get pretty close to the weight capacity of the 405. Just because it will hold 16 lbs doesn't mean it will hold 16 lbs steady in the wind, or steady looking straight down, etc.

[Ed Bray]

I've got a 405 and the cheaper 410, I found the 410 carried the 8x10 camera much better than the bigger 405. Why would this be the case you may think, but the 405 arms are extended compared to the 410 which is much more compact and this leads to the 405 having more of a fulcrum effect with the larger the camera and the more extension the less stable it became, not so with the 410 which although is stated to carry less weight I found it much less 'floppy' in action even with the 8x10 extended.

Just my experience.

[Tony Lakin]

I've got a 405 and the cheaper 410, I found the 410 carried the 8x10 camera much better than the bigger 405. Why would this be the case you may think, but the 405 arms are extended compared to the 410 which is much more compact and this leads to the 405 having more of a fulcrum effect with the larger the camera and the more extension the less stable it became, not so with the 410 which although is stated to carry less weight I found it much less 'floppy' in action even with the 8x10 extended.

ust my experience.

These are exactly the same as my findings, I used a 410 for many years and then took a notion that logically the 405 would be better, no chance, sold the 405 on Ebay after a couple of months the 410 works very nicely with my Canham metal 8x10, my Ries J100 is more rigid but less versatile and used most often with my Sinar Norma 8x10.

[welly]

I've stuck my Cambo 8x10 monorail on my 410. I'm not sure I'd be overly confident with it outside on a windy day to be honest but the Cambo feels like a pretty heavy camera, in my experience of 8x10 cameras, which is limited solely to the Cambo 8x10! I was thinking of getting a 405 head for my 8x10 because I love the 410 but not sure if sounds particularly wise now. And using it directly on the tripod annoys me as I can never quite get the legs right to point it up and down.

[Noah A]

I had the same experience with the 405/410 as Ed and Tony. I bought the larger 405 first and wasn't blown away by its rigidity--and it's surprisingly large, it wouldn't fit in my tripod bag.

I ordered the 410 and found that its lower profile made it seem more rigid than the 405. The only downside to the 410 is that the knobs are smaller and harder to operate than on the 410. It's not a big deal though, just a minor difference.

Of course, if you win the lottery, there's always the Cube or the new Linhof geared head. But for those of us on a budget, I think the 410 is a great deal.

I've never used mine with 8x10 though, only with a 4x5 Technika, Technikardan and more recently the Arca F-Metric 4x5, which it holds just fine.

[Kimberly Anderson]

I have used the 410 for years and years. Over time the brass threaded adjustment part can become worn and get sloppy. Both of my 410's have gotten sloppy over time and now are starting to wiggle and move with the camera on the head.

In my hunt for the ultimate stable head for cameras 8x10 and larger I have switched to a Miller cine fluid head on large wooden Miller cine sticks. That's just my own progression, for others it might be different.

I have to say though, in defense of the lowly 410...that it has been a WONDERFUL head. I have used it both in the studio and in the field. When they are new and tight they are superb. Really fantastic. Even at full price they are a great buy. Even though mine are sloppy, I still use them both in the studio, and plan to for years to come. Yes, I can rebuild them and bring them back up to snuff, but for what I'm using them for now it's not needed.

I have had cameras up to 8x10 on the 410, but haven't had anything bigger. I think a camera larger than 8x10 would lead to the brass pieces wearing out even faster.

[Daniel Stone]

Thanks all, I'll see about checking into the 410 now.

A photographer I assist on occasion gave me a really worn out(probably needs to be rebuilt) 405 head last year, I found it in the garage yesterday. That's what kinda spurred my starting this thread. I agree, the weight of whatever's mounted is kinda "up there" height-wise, and I can see with anything larger than a Hasselblad, it could start to really stress the gears internally due to leverage issues, especially if put at an odd angle for a long enough period of time.

The Linhof geared head is a thing of beauty. The rep(maybe he was just a customer, but the way he talked sounded like a rep) for Linhof was in Samys LA last year, and he had one of the Linhof Micro geared heads. @Noah: YES, if I won the lottery, I'd definitely research that head. Beautiful construction, beautiful finish, beautiful everything. Super well though out. Unfortunately its WAY beyond what my current budget would allow. I'll start saving though ;)!

Thx all for your suggestions thus far, they're greatly appreciated.

-Dan

[C. D. Keth]

That's great information on the 410 head. I'm not surprised it's right at home with Tony's 8x10 canham but I'm impressed that Welly had a cambo 8x10 on his. That's either 20 or 24 lbs, depending on which one it is, and that's without a lens, holder, and wind.

[Fred L]

Had my Zone VI 8x10 on a 410 and I didn't like it at all. Too wobbly for my taste. Now using Ries heads on my J and A tripods. yymv, as always ;)

[Daniel Stone]

Hey Fred,

I did really enjoy my time with my(former) Ries tripod+head. However, it was too heavy FOR ME to tote around all the time, not to mention a bit too long to just "toss in the back" of my small car(well, current car at this time, see my other thread asking about vehicles for photo/all purpose in the Lounge)

Thought about getting another Ries head to use on my Gitzo CF tripod, not sure yet. Seen some others who've done it, but almost sure I want a fully-geared head from now on.

-Dan

[Peter De Smidt]

I have a 410. It's an excellent head for use with a 4x5 field camera, but it's not stable enough (for me) with an 8x10 field camera. Why go to all of the work and expense of shooting 8x10 and then use a head that's not suited to it? Get a Gitzo series 5 rational 3-way head, a Ries head, or another one meant for use with an 8x10.

[Daniel Stone]

well I already have a 3-way #5 Gitzo head, but its almost as heavy as the sticks alone ;)

hence looking for something a bit more compact, and geared :)

-Dan

[Peter De Smidt]

There are newer magnesium versions of the Gitzo heads, but they won't save a tremendous amount of weight, nor are they geared. I'm not sure that going for a super light support system with an 8x10 is all that wise, but you know your situation much better than I do.

[Daniel Stone]

Hey Peter,

I'm not after a "featherweight" 8x10 system. But I do want rugged and sturdy. But not super heavy/bulky if possible.
Most of my LF photography has been within 100yds of the car/road since I started with LF, and I want to change that :). Get out more, and go farther. Hence going with a lighter/more portable camera(something that can fit into a backpack), and smaller/lighter lenses than what I currently have. I've been mirroring others equipment, and after really considering how/what I want to photograph and how I want to go about doing it, smaller/lighter/easily portable/stowable is important for me.

This geared head would be used for ALL of my equipment, D800/F6(longest lens being a 180mm)-->8x10 Arca(longest lens being a 24" RDA).

One tripod + one(maybe two, not sure if a ballhead still works for me) head for every format I want to shoot. I'm working to "simplify" my life, and only own equipment I use, not because I think I might want to use it "some day". So buying something quality and built "tough" is what I'm after. Simply because I plan to USE it, not look at it set up :).

-Dan

[Peter De Smidt]

A series 5 head just doesn't seem very bulky or heavy to me. There's always Series 3. I have one of those too, and If I had to chose between it and a 410 for an 8x10, I'd choose the Gitzo.

You might make an offer on this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Linhof-3-Way-Leveling-Head-I-77mm-Base-Top-Supports-11-00-lb-4-54-kg-/271130296403?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f20a00053, although you'd be pushing it with 8x10. Perhaps a used Arca B2?

[Daniel Stone]

I stopped in at samys camera in Orange County this afternoon, while waiting to have some film developed at my E6 lab. I stopped at the counter while therr and ask the guy about the Manfrotto heads, the 405 and the 410. I was able to look at them both of them, and get a feel for both in the hand. The 405 is certainly much bigger, and the knobs are definitely nicer in the hand. The 410 is too small frankly.

Neither left me feeling "satisfied" with what I saw, frankly. The 405 might be able to hold the 8x10, certainly a 4x5, but the 8x10 might be stretching it a bit.

Just wish the Arca Cube and the Linhof Micro head were 1/2 their current cost, I might be more enticed to hold out for either of those after saving a bit longer.

Dan

[Peter De Smidt]

Um....yep!

[Ari]

Daniel, just moving in a slightly different direction, while you sort things out.
I've been looking at this tripod head for a long time, waiting for it to come down in price.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/693291-REG/Induro_479_103_PHQ3_PHQ_Series_5_Way.html

Just something to consider.

[Daniel Stone]

Hey all,

I'm still looking at options, I'll be using my #5 gitzo head in the interim, maybe I'll find it can work for me, who knows.
another option though, its not geared, but is similar to the Ries head in function, its the "long lens head" from Acratech"

http://acratech.net/product.php?productid=84&cat=1&page=1

any ideas on whether you think this might work ok with an 8x10 arca?

[Fred L]

Interesting head but I only see 2 axis which might be a bit limiting depending on where you're shooting. The Ries heads work on 3 axis (the pan is just a loosening of the bolt really). The simplicity of the Ries heads is also their beauty, very little to go wrong.

fwiw, I found I didn't really need the fine tuning of the geared heads like the 410 and was fine with Gitzo ballheads for MF and Ries heads for LF.