help: which shutter for heliar 21cm

[zone]

Hallo everyone...

Maybe i'm lucky, I bought it on a old-stand an 21cm Heliar Braunschweig f 4.5.
Now which shutter i do search for the lens?

I found some threads in this forum, but non exaustive for me, i not understand because i'm newbie for this type lenses and shutters.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?23904-Compound-shutter-sizes

The only thing I realized is that it necessary a compound shutter, which sizes i do serach?
The front barrel is blocked; is there a way to unscrew the front lens?
No problem for rear lens; I unscrewed easily.

there is someone who has installed a shutter on this lens?

This is the lens, i've linked pic from the web.

http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20111/5_heliar_21cm_f4_502_1.jpg

Thank.

[Steven Tribe]

Look at cameraeccentric's catalogues.
It gives Compur III Ro and Compound 3 for the 21cm.
Post-war, it was sold with the Compound 3 from Voigtländer.

Uncared-for aluminium/aluminium threads can be difficult - there are no easy fixes!

[zone]

Seeking a way to not break it.

I could use this one?
http://www.ebay.it/itm/rodenstock-200mm-Imagon-complete-set-compound-3-shutter-/360560210186?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item53f310310a#ht_500wt_1177

[Steven Tribe]

Probably, but buying with an Imagon from USA (VAT taxes) is not the most economic way to get a Compound 3!!
Advert in the for sale/wanted section?
2 people to hold and unscrew sometimes works. There are threads on the problem.

[Ole Tjugen]

The best "donor lens" for a Heliar 21cm would be a Schneider Xenar 21cm (210mm) of about the same age. Price would most likely be less than for the shutter alone, and buying a shutter with Xenar you can be much more confident it will fit.

[Ken Lee]

http://www.kenleegallery.com/images/forum/210Heliar-1.jpg

I previously owned one that was mounted in a Compound shutter - as Stephen has described.

[cyberjunkie]

The previous post has a picture of a post-WWII Heliar 210mm (very likely with single coating, just like mine), the OP posted a picture of an older, uncoated version (filigraned MFlenses :) ).
While a post-war 210mm Heliar goes in the same Compound No.3 used by contemporary Schneider lenses, i wouldn't be 100% sure that an earlier 21cm one has the same quotes.
Very likely, yes! Absolutely sure, not!

Before attemting to force the front cell out of the barrel, make sure there are no tiny set screw.
Once done, check the measures and see if it fits that Compound No.3.
If you can't find a conveniently priced one, i will be happy to be of some help.

[Ken Lee]

It has been said before, but one easy way to accommodate barrel-mounted lenses, is the Sinar Copal Shutter (http://www.kenleegallery.com/html/lenses/#Shutter).

I like old Tessars and modern APO Nikkors, but many classic and recent lenses are available - and very affordable - "in barrel". The shutter pays for itself if you get a few barrel-mounted lenses. I am always grateful to Igor of Igor's Camera Exchange, for making me aware of it.

People have adapted that shutter to a non-Sinar cameras also.

[cyberjunkie]

Must correct a mistake.
Post-war coated Heliars can be in centimeters as well.
I don't remember if mine is a 210mm or a 21cm, but i am sure that there are 21cm ones which are rather late and coated.
The lettering in late versions is not difficult to recognize, with the help of some pictures from Google Images. The font is very linear and looks more modern.

[Firstlightau]

I hope you can find one to fit. I have a post war barrel Heliar, 210mm 4.5 but have not been able to find any shutter that fits it. I have a Compound and Compur no. 3 and neither will fit. Just got a Copal #3 from Jim Galli at Apug that he said would fit the Heliar..it didn't...why do they make it so difficult!
I would love to use this lens more with something other than a lens cap shutter, it's a lovely thing. Maybe it needs to go to SK Grimes...are they still going?
BTW, my first post here...hello from Australia!

[Ken Lee]

S.K. Grimes (http://www.skgrimes.com/) is still very much there, and they do really good work. They're the ones who mounted the 210mm Heilar shown in post # 6, onto a Technika board: perfectly.

[Firstlightau]

Thanks Ken, looks like that will be my next step.

[cyberjunkie]

I hope you can find one to fit. I have a post war barrel Heliar, 210mm 4.5 but have not been able to find any shutter that fits it. I have a Compound and Compur no. 3 and neither will fit. Just got a Copal #3 from Jim Galli at Apug that he said would fit the Heliar..it didn't...why do they make it so difficult!
I would love to use this lens more with something other than a lens cap shutter, it's a lovely thing. Maybe it needs to go to SK Grimes...are they still going?


You have to ask first!!
I hope your No.3 will be good for other modern lenses...
TAKE TIME, watch Ebay, and soon you will find a lens in Sinar DB mount which would fit your Copal No.3.
It's the standard for fast/long modern lenses.
Be aware that some japanese lenses were mounted in Copal No.3S, which is somewhat smaller (some Fuji, Congo, Kowa, etc.).

Your Heliar, if it's coated, must fit a Compound No.3.
AFAIK, there has been just ONE kind of No.3 used post-war, while there were more than one in the No.4 and No.5 sizes.
There is a nice post on this forum about that, search for Compound sizes.
In the followup to the first post there are also the mesasures of Compur No.2 shutters.
Be aware that the reported sizes apply only to post-war products (or maybe early pre-war). Older models were made in far more sizes (i have lots of Compounds in smaller sizes, which looks similar, but have different quotes).

If you still need the shutter, contact me via PM, and first measure threads and total length of the barrel, with cells removed.

P.S.
With the money you spend for a nice work done by SK Grimes, you can buy one shutter, the lens that comes with it, and still have some money left.
My personal opinion:
better use their service for lenses which have non-standard mount (i.e. there is no second hand shutter which will house them), and are VERY valuable.
A good example are vintage extreme wide angles for ULF, a few ultra-long repro lenses, and some super fast objectives for aerial use.

P.S. 2
Are you sure you have a Compound No.3?
There no numbers written on the Compound case.
The easiest way to tell them apart is the fastest speed
1/100 No.3
1/75 No.4
1/50 No.5

[Ole Tjugen]

The Compound shutter sizes are in the post linked to in my signature - I keep it there so I can find it myself!

[Tim Deming]

Your Heliar, if it's coated, must fit a Compound No.3.


The cells for a heliar in barrel are in different mounts than those for shutter, even post war. Sadly, they are not interchangable. I think Arne Croell's detailed article about post war Voigtlander lenses discusses this. You will have better luck with smaller heliars, pre or post wwII, some of which have cells that can go into shutter or barrel.

cheers
Tim