Question on Grafmatic film holders

[algarzai]

hi
i have got a series of shots with strong light leak in the septums' hole. I have 1 shot completely exposed and 5 shots with gradually decreasing in light in the septum hole area and around it.
I think i accidentally pulled out the dark slide and exposed one shot. is it normal in grafmatic holders that such error would affect other film in other septums?

[Larry Gebhardt]

Yes, if to pulled the dark slide with the film area exposed to light you will fog all the sheets. This will happen either if the lens is open, or the holder is out of the camera. If you look at the design it's easy to see how this happens.

[Larry Gebhardt]

I should add that you must have the dark slide pushed back in before you take your shot (the red dot will be visible) or you will also fog the other sheets.

[Peter York]

I'm embarassed to admit this, but for a long time I did not push the darkslide back after pulling it (to shield the remaining 5 sheets from light). All edges of the film were fogged.

[algarzai]

I should add that you must have the dark slide pushed back in before you take your shot (the red dot will be visible) or you will also fog the other sheets.

that sucks. it is a great piece of mechanics but it has so many moves that makes it prone to errors.


I'm embarassed to admit this, but for a long time I did not push the darkslide back after pulling it (to shield the remaining 5 sheets from light). All edges of the film were fogged.

although i did not know that i would fog my film like this but i thought it does not look right protruding like this when the darkslide is not inserted. :)

[Bill Burk]

I made this mistake recently...

Pulled and pushed dark slide as normal to take shot.

Wanted to check ground glass so pulled whole Grafmatic off the back of camera.

- So far no big deal - Only one shot would be burned if I had done the right thing next.

But I didn't.

With the Grafmatic in hand, in full light, I racheted to advance the film.

Guess what happened?

Not much. The one shot was burned. That's sure.

But the shot nearest the top stayed unfogged.

Four other shots had minor (would have to crop 1/2 inch to hide it completely) fog at the notch.

---
Lesson: If this happens to you, don't go home. Keep shooting. You'll get something.

[algarzai]

I usually shoot tight. Sometimes I think the numbered desk is too much into my frame. Half an inch is too much but I would not go home.

Thanks guys. Helpful and informative replies.

[Peter York]

You can remove the numbered disk.

[algarzai]

You can remove the numbered disk.

really!! .. how?

[Larry Gebhardt]

really!! .. how?

The grafmatics come apart easily with just a screw driver. If I remember correctly you need to remove the screws on the sides and then you can pull out the main part. Keep track of the little loose stop that will come out and note hoe it goes back in. Then a few screws let you open the main compartment. The disk is readily removed once you open the main compartment. It's been years since I removed the wheel on mine so I may be forgetting a minor step. but if I can figure it out I'm sure you can too.

Keep the disk so you can put it back if you want to sell the unit.

Despite the chance of fogging the sheets all at once, I really like the units. I've only fogged things once, so I don't think it's really a big deal.

[dave_whatever]

Coincidentally I've just taken the disk out of one of mine, takes a couple of minutes. Just don't lose the screws, and remember how everything came apart.

[algarzai]

The grafmatics come apart easily with just a screw driver. If I remember correctly you need to remove the screws on the sides and then you can pull out the main part. Keep track of the little loose stop that will come out and note hoe it goes back in. Then a few screws let you open the main compartment. The disk is readily removed once you open the main compartment. It's been years since I removed the wheel on mine so I may be forgetting a minor step. but if I can figure it out I'm sure you can too.

Keep the disk so you can put it back if you want to sell the unit.

Despite the chance of fogging the sheets all at once, I really like the units. I've only fogged things once, so I don't think it's really a big deal.
Thanks. I will give it a try when I unload my holders :)

[algarzai]

Coincidentally I've just taken the disk out of one of mine, takes a couple of minutes. Just don't lose the screws, and remember how everything came apart.

Sounds encouraging. I will try that.

[Brooklyn45]

I really recommend that you do the disk removal thing but be careful on your first dismantle. There are a couple of springs that can give you a little trouble, also a felt padded thingy. But hey it will teach you about how the Grafmatic works. I don't think they have too many movements at all. In fact i think they are really elegant in design. Great to snap one into a folding camera and go out RF shooting on the street. Clunk click six times and then home to see what you got.

[algarzai]

I really recommend that you do the disk removal thing but be careful on your first dismantle. There are a couple of springs that can give you a little trouble, also a felt padded thingy. But hey it will teach you about how the Grafmatic works. I don't think they have too many movements at all. In fact i think they are really elegant in design. Great to snap one into a folding camera and go out RF shooting on the street. Clunk click six times and then home to see what you got.

i am actually thinking of doing a code notch on the disks to tell which one is which.

[Renato Tonelli]

i am actually thinking of doing a code notch on the disks to tell which one is which.

Good idea!

[Brooklyn45]

Why do yo need a code notch.. leave the number wheel in in that case.. Don't understand this ??

[algarzai]

Why do yo need a code notch.. leave the number wheel in in that case.. Don't understand this ??

What don't you understand, why I would want to code my holders or why I decided to code the holder instead of roving the disk?

[Brooklyn45]

Surely the disk numbering is a coding system.. Why do you need to add another one ??

[Fred L]

The septum number disc won't differentiate between different Grafmatics so that won't help with troubleshooting. The only non destructive way to code Grafmatics I can think of would be to use something to intrude upon the frame, ie- glue a small strip of exposed film/dark material of some sort that has notches or coding, somewhere (possibly near where disc is/was).

[algarzai]

Surely the disk numbering is a coding system.. Why do you need to add another one ??

i have 4 holders. i go out to shoot for a few days and i want to know which shot is this say holder 1 frame 3. so that my note taking becomes easier. i haven't been doing it because it is too difficult :D

[algarzai]

The septum number disc won't differentiate between different Grafmatics so that won't help with troubleshooting. The only non destructive way to code Grafmatics I can think of would be to use something to intrude upon the frame, ie- glue a small strip of exposed film/dark material of some sort that has notches or coding, somewhere (possibly near where disc is/was).

i think that is a better idea. this way i don't play with the holders and that part of the frame is already ruined by the disk.

[Brooklyn45]

Do you have an i or other smart phone. Theres tons of logging apps. Take a snap on the phone and add notes. Compare images when developing is done. That's what I do.. I don't need to mark the film at all.

[dave_whatever]

Don't grafmatics have a place you can glue a piece of acetate to use as holder ID to appear at the edge of the frame? I remember reading it in the manual.

[algarzai]

Do you have an i or other smart phone. Theres tons of logging apps. Take a snap on the phone and add notes. Compare images when developing is done. That's what I do.. I don't need to mark the film at all.

I used phototools on iPhone but found it too detailed. What do you use?
I guess a photo with an audio note should be good enough.

[algarzai]

Don't grafmatics have a place you can glue a piece of acetate to use as holder ID to appear at the edge of the frame? I remember reading it in the manual.

I think they do on a second look.

[Andrew Plume]

I've owned one but am currently selling it on

great piece of design, though, no practical or personal use

I can appreciate that problems can and will arise

a beautiful piece of kit

andrew

[Bill Burk]

Yes, they have a place...

Look at the wheel edge-on... Left and right... see the two notches? The provision is already there for you to glue a thin tab left or right, which you can code or write on to identify the holder/job... I think you can come in 1/8 inch - same as the wheel - and still meet specifications for 4x5 imageable film area.

[Brooklyn45]

Well I use Light Meter for Iphone which auto logs into Dropbox.It auto records all my settings location etc and a photo but no notes.(perhaps in a future version). What to do what to do, ah ok I have recently come across this incredible invention.. I think they are calling it "Note pad and Paper" or something like that. If you google handwriting you will be able to learn something of this lost art. Of course there is a bit of a learning curve but once you get the hang of it I think you will like it. Oh and by the way no batteries.

[David A. Goldfarb]

I like my Grafmatics. They are very handy for transporting lots of film ready to shoot, for portrait sessions, and for working press-camera style. They have arguably better film flatness than typical standard filmholders, and once you get used to the sequence, you don't make mistakes anymore.

Kinematics are also interesting, as they can hold 10 sheets in about the same space as a Grafmatic, but they are fiddlier and not as reliable. Still, going out with 20 sheets in two cassettes is handy.

[Brooklyn45]

Another BTW.. I put one of my loaded Grafmatics on a scale to weigh it against the equivalent of 3 Fidelity dark slides.

Result Grafmatic = 490 grams Three DS = 538 grams... also the Grafmatic takes up slightly less space than 2 dark slides.

Whats not to love about these babies. I carry two. in the space of four double slides I have 12 exposures.

Something else . If anyone does do a rebuild, ie to remove the disk, do a little j
Johnson's waxing of the running surfaces. Not the inside of the septums. An almost dry paper towel that has had a light spray of wax rubbed over the moving parts is an invaluable aid to making these things run smoothly, and helps in loading the thing in and out of the camera back.

[Ivan J. Eberle]

Grafmatics have a learning curve and/or addt'l ways to screw up 6 sheets all at once. The newest Grafmatics are rapidly approaching 40 years old, with some going back 60 years or more. Bakelite shoe plate of many older ones will be warped, metal shavings from the pot-metal inner frames cause some of them to be worn-out, essentially worthless. Septums need regular inspection to see that they're not bent. But given all this, I do still have and regularly use a couple of them. Truth be told, I'd rather use Quickloads and Readyloads, for the dry dusty places I go, but they've stopped making these (as well, Ektar 100 and the new Portra 160/400 were never available in RL).

[algarzai]

I've owned one but am currently selling it on

great piece of design, though, no practical or personal use

I can appreciate that problems can and will arise

a beautiful piece of kit

andrew

Grafmatics help me carry a lot of film in my pouch. If i were in a studio i think i would not bother with the extra mechanical steps and failure points.


Yes, they have a place...

Look at the wheel edge-on... Left and right... see the two notches? The provision is already there for you to glue a thin tab left or right, which you can code or write on to identify the holder/job... I think you can come in 1/8 inch - same as the wheel - and still meet specifications for 4x5 imageable film area.

found them .. thanks


Well I use Light Meter for Iphone which auto logs into Dropbox.It auto records all my settings location etc and a photo but no notes.(perhaps in a future version). What to do what to do, ah ok I have recently come across this incredible invention.. I think they are calling it "Note pad and Paper" or something like that. If you google handwriting you will be able to learn something of this lost art. Of course there is a bit of a learning curve but once you get the hang of it I think you will like it. Oh and by the way no batteries.

ha.. i wouldn't be cool then.


Another BTW.. I put one of my loaded Grafmatics on a scale to weigh it against the equivalent of 3 Fidelity dark slides.

Result Grafmatic = 490 grams Three DS = 538 grams... also the Grafmatic takes up slightly less space than 2 dark slides.

Whats not to love about these babies. I carry two. in the space of four double slides I have 12 exposures.

Something else . If anyone does do a rebuild, ie to remove the disk, do a little j
Johnson's waxing of the running surfaces. Not the inside of the septums. An almost dry paper towel that has had a light spray of wax rubbed over the moving parts is an invaluable aid to making these things run smoothly, and helps in loading the thing in and out of the camera back.

thanks for the info .. waxing would be good to do every now and then i guess.


Grafmatics have a learning curve and/or addt'l ways to screw up 6 sheets all at once. The newest Grafmatics are rapidly approaching 40 years old, with some going back 60 years or more. Bakelite shoe plate of many older ones will be warped, metal shavings from the pot-metal inner frames cause some of them to be worn-out, essentially worthless. Septums need regular inspection to see that they're not bent. But given all this, I do still have and regularly use a couple of them. Truth be told, I'd rather use Quickloads and Readyloads, for the dry dusty places I go, but they've stopped making these (as well, Ektar 100 and the new Portra 160/400 were never available in RL).

Dust and heat. sounds like Saudi Arabia :)
I am always amazed how companies are trying to make our life miserable by killing off the products we want and need. considering that large format shooters still don't have a digital equivalent.


I like my Grafmatics. They are very handy for transporting lots of film ready to shoot, for portrait sessions, and for working press-camera style. They have arguably better film flatness than typical standard filmholders, and once you get used to the sequence, you don't make mistakes anymore.

Kinematics are also interesting, as they can hold 10 sheets in about the same space as a Grafmatic, but they are fiddlier and not as reliable. Still, going out with 20 sheets in two cassettes is handy.

Kinematics sound interesting. My expert drum takes 10 sheets. having 6 sheets increments (1 holder, 2 holders .. n holders) is making necessary to unload into a box of exposed film for storage until the next batch is ready. but i am scared enough by how much movements these things have.
I wish someone picks up producing these things again.

[JChrome]

Fantastic thread! I found some light leaks in my Grafmatics but then after reading this, it's my own fault (great information to have).

Also, the removal of the disk is a great idea along with the use of some wax.

I'll give these things a try and see if I can't make these wonderful gadgets even better.

[mjork]

You should also do a Web search for "grafmatic service manual" and download the pdf that's available for free. That tells you exactly how to assemble/disassemble it and where to apply lubrication.

[Michael Cienfuegos]

You should also do a Web search for "grafmatic service manual" and download the pdf that's available for free. That tells you exactly how to assemble/disassemble it and where to apply lubrication.

You can find the Grafmatic service manual here: www.southbristolviews.com

m

[cdholden]

You can find the Grafmatic service manual here: www.southbristolviews.com

m

Thank you!

[StoneNYC]

I'm looking for additional number wheels, someone sent me two but I need two more, if you are going to remove them, I would take them, if you would like to trade a non-wheel for your wheeled one, I would also consider that.

[Sirius Glass]

Surely the disk numbering is a coding system.. Why do you need to add another one ??

+1

I use the disk number and I find it useful. I know which side of the negative will have the number and the disk does not cause problems. It is about knowing how to use your equipment.

[JChrome]

I use the disk number and I find it useful. I know which side of the negative will have the number and the disk does not cause problems. It is about knowing how to use your equipment.

I know what side the number will be on, but I still don't want to use it. I'd prefer it gone so I can have more room on the negative. I do so much work to setup, get everything just right... I deserve an extra 3-4mm of space on my negative!

The thing I worry about is re-selling them if I take out the disk.

[StoneNYC]

I know what side the number will be on, but I still don't want to use it. I'd prefer it gone so I can have more room on the negative. I do so much work to setup, get everything just right... I deserve an extra 3-4mm of space on my negative!

The thing I worry about is re-selling them if I take out the disk.

Most people don't like the numbers, but I like them personally. I wouldn't worry about resale, as long as they are light tight you're fine.

You can keep the disk and re-install it.

I never had any "instruction" manual but it's pretty obvious with older things how to disassemble them, I just unscrewed everything and then you can just place (or remove) the wheel, it's only held in by two pins, and if you don't RIP them out, and instead disassemble and remove them, they are easily re-inserted. If you grab and rip it out, then yea you can't re-insert it because you'll have broken the pins.

Good luck!

[denverjims]

i have 4 holders. i go out to shoot for a few days and i want to know which shot is this say holder 1 frame 3. so that my note taking becomes easier. i haven't been doing it because it is too difficult :D

I had some issues at first as well until I came up with an ID method that works for me while I work with some Fidelity holders and some Grafmatic:

As with most, I had labeled my Fidelity holders numerically (my first holder contained negatives - 1 & 2, the second - 3 & 4, etc.). When I got my 3 Grafmatic holders, decided to number them 1, 2 & 3 on the outside.

From then on, I re-labeled my Fidelity holders for note purposes F1, F2, F3, etc. (one for each sheet of film). The Grafmatic negatives in holder number 1 became G11, G12, - G16. and the Grafmatic negatives in holder number 2 were G21, G22, - G26 and so on.

It is now easy to sync up my notes with my developing method used for each negative as well as filing system. If my note says negative G35 needs N+1, I know to pull negative number 5 from Grafmatic holder number 3. Also, it is easy to tell from my notes which were in Fidelity holders and which were in Grafmatic.

This also works for the Grafmatic I have with no number wheel as the order of the negatives stays predictably constant even if you don't shoot the entire holder. I just use corner clips to ID one negative from another in the holder as I develop & file.

I'm sure I'm not the first one to think this up, but with my background in Math, subscripts seemed an obvious solution.