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Raffay
4-Jan-2013, 05:08
Hello All,

First, I would like to thank all forum members for their support and guidance on numerous issues that I have faced and facing while I continue to shoot LF - and LF I will :)

Ever since I started exploring film, I was told that B&W film can be developed at home but Colour will not be possible as the process involves more chemicals (which will be hard to find in Pakistan) and more importantly the temperature cannot be maintained without proper equipment. I was quite put off, as back at that time I thought without colour there is no photography. But, I guess due to the limitation, I started B&W and now I have realised that nothing can beat B&W :)

However, I still feel that there are times when you want to shoot in colour, hence this post. I would appreciate if anyone out there can guide me on this and if there is hope for me then I would like to know about it. I know this is too early for me to explore colour, as I am currently struggling to have a single decent picture taken in B&W (not my fault mostly, more to do foggy film that I have). In all probability, I will come around testing colour after a few months of successfully shooting B&W, but just wanted to know if it would be possible or not; and if somebody, other than an expert or with unlimited resources, has done it in some simple fashion at home that I can replicate.

Cheers
Raffay

EOTS
4-Jan-2013, 05:59
Hello Raffay,

for color processing, good solutions are for example a Jobo CPE2 (cheaper and smaller) or Jobo CPP2 (larger and more accurate),
which measure/control the configurable temperature (normally 38°).
They should be available on the used market (Ebay etc.).

You put the LF film in drums (for example 25xx drums) in darkness and can then process using daylight with this machines.
The machines will automatically rotate the drums, but you will have to start/stop the rotation and put in / put out chemicals at the right time.

Chemical processes are called E6 (for transparencies) and C41 (for color negatives).
Regarding chemicals, the simplest solutions are the Tetenal Kits (3-bath).
For C41, the Fuji Hunt X-Press Kit is also recommendable (advantage is seperate Bleach / Fix).
For E6, the Fuji 3-bath Kit is no longer available (but an excellent 6-bath Kit is available).

I'm have no knowledge about Pakistan, perhaps you can order the Kits somewhere in the region
or import it somehow, for example from Russia or EU?

Best regards,
Martin

vinny
4-Jan-2013, 06:13
Flickr.com do it yourself color group. All the images there have been processed by the people who shot the film. Q&a there too.

polyglot
4-Jan-2013, 06:23
There are lots of threads about this on APUG. C41 (negative) is very easy and forgiving, actually and kits are very readily available; E6 (chromes) is a bit more difficult and requires better temperature control.

There's a set of instructions/explanations in the FAQ in my signature; that should give you an idea of what you need to get.

EOTS
4-Jan-2013, 06:44
Here's a video where you can see how the CPE2 works:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pr3KFa0pLbI

There are other YouTube videos, showing how C41 can also be rolled "by hand",
but honestly I would prefer at least the CPE2 ...

Light Guru
4-Jan-2013, 07:04
Color film is actually just about as easy to process at home as B&W. You just need to pay attention to temperature at all steps not just the developer.

Number of different chemicals does not need to be more then b&w this kit is a three chemical set up.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/109267-REG/Tetenal_T109306_C_41_Press_Kit_for.html

You also do not need a expensive jobo to develop color film. Here is an arrival about an easy and inexpensive way to keep all the chemicals at the proper temperature.
http://www.lamarlamb.com/On-Film/Film-Blog/Developing-Slides/13127177_bK665M#!i=948545069&k=3S3mGWP
He has more types of chemicals but not all color processing kits require that many.

algarzai
4-Jan-2013, 11:39
i have just finished developing my first E6 batch. 10 slides of 4x5 in Fuji Hunt chrome 6x kit. i have found the process loose as opposed to B&W. what i mean by this is that you are not given a certain time for a certain temp. you are just given 6-8 minutes @ 37-39 degrees or something around those lines. so i used 6:30 @ 38 deg cel.
1
My CPP turned out to be defective or not able to heat up to 38 or above. it does not heat water. so i started the process with the screen saying 39 and ended with it saying 34! but it all went well. although it was an out of control process.

what i am let down by is the Jobo. it only heats water but not cool it. you have to provide it cold water. I would assume that Islamabad is hotter than Riyadh. water comes out of the tab above 40 degrees in summer. Jobo is useless in such conditions. i had to connect it to a water cooler (similar to the ones you see at mosques of you have ever been to Saudi) the water cooler supplies @ 10 degrees. you need a big one to run a black and white process and keep it at 20.

I would recommend buying a smallest Jobo unit that can carry an expert drum. use it only for agitation. Use a temperature controlled faucet to control the water bath. keep your eyes on few mercury thermometer. the first developer and the color developer are very temp critical so put them in those bottles.

if you don't mind hand agitation you don't need a Jobo at all.

photobymike
4-Jan-2013, 16:41
Hello Raffay

two words..... TETENAL!!!! They are big in Europe ... easy easy easy..... oops three words..... dont forget to use distilled water for best results......

Jim Andrada
4-Jan-2013, 17:05
Yes - my biggest complaint about the Jobo is the lack of a cooler. Water in Tucson in Summer is very warm - maybe not 40 degrees but still too warm for B&W (Maybe almost right for color though)

The advice I got for this problem was to fill one or two plastic bottles with water and freeze them and then put them in the Jobo - the heater will heat the otherwise cooled water to the correct temperature and the temperature should be good for the relatively short period needed. And you could have a few extra bottles frozen and swap them out if they melt too fast.

Ari
4-Jan-2013, 17:19
The Tetenal C-41 kit can be ordered from B&H and other suppliers, and it is as easy as B&W.
You need three containers, a thermometer and a stirring rod.
You can use any method of developing that you like: trays, rotary, tank, etc.
The instructions are clear and easy to follow.

Bill_1856
4-Jan-2013, 17:39
Of course you can do it yourself, but it isn't economcally reasonable unless you do a lot of it. Just find a good lab and send it off -- it will be cheaper and BETTER!

wombat2go
4-Jan-2013, 18:03
I am processing bw here, quite good results now that I have spiral winding, dust control, and enlarging/ scanning, all progressively under control. It is fun and interesting actually.

I have about 6 rolls of 120 and 35 mm C41 that I was about to send away.
That would cost about $90 here also the last 2 rolls came back with fibers on the negs and the scans had same image of hair/ debris at the top of each frame.

So for better or worse i have just ordered a Rollei Digibase C41 1 litre kit to try.
Today cobbling together a heater using a small galvanized tub, a small old electric cooktop, and a reptile temp controller 20~ 42 C yet to arrive.

Terry Christian
4-Jan-2013, 19:21
Wombat, the Rollei Digibase kits are fantastic. I don't use a heater, just an insulated cooler that holds hot water from the tap.

Ari
4-Jan-2013, 20:07
Of course you can do it yourself, but it isn't economcally reasonable unless you do a lot of it. Just find a good lab and send it off -- it will be cheaper and BETTER!

I have to disagree with that.
The Tetenal kit costs me $35 including shipping; it will process 60 4x5 sheets if I use it properly; I often wait until I have 50-60 sheets to process.
At my local lab, 60 4x5 sheets would cost me $210 plus tax = $239.40
And I find the results at home far exceed what I get back from the lab (low contrast, thin negatives).

wombat2go
4-Jan-2013, 20:09
Thanks, Terry,
Gives me confidence, as i see so much negative on the forums!
Darkroom is Michigan basement, about 14 C in winter and 20.5 c in summer.
I thought if I do a well controlled heater before I start, it might take that variable in control, ..... also I can have a coffee ( or libation, depending on time of day) between rolls.

What do you store the solutions in? I added 12 of boston amber 32 oz (1000 ml) bottles today to cover c41 and bw but have not purchased yet.

Raffay
4-Jan-2013, 20:33
Wow, a lot of interesting and useful information. I have a few questions:

1. If I order Tetenal from B&H, btw I checked with them and they ship to Pakistan although the shipping cost is more than the cost of the actual item, and prepare it according to the instructions and store the chemicals in brown bottles, then what will be its shelf life. As pointed out by Ari, it would be best to shoot the max number that a c41 kit can process and then process them at the same time, hence no issue of shelf life, but for newbies like me, we have to take a shot then develop it to see if it came out right or not, the learning process, otherwise if we shoot so many then most probably the learning curve will be much longer and expensive

2. A lot of people are talking about insulated coolers to keep the chemicals at the right temp, what are these and how they work

3. Aljarzai pointed out that if I can agitate then I don't need a jobo at all, how much agitation is required?

4. @ Terry: what is a Rollie Digibase kit?

Cheers
Raffay

algarzai
5-Jan-2013, 03:35
you can check the Fuji chrome 6x instructions sheet on the following link
http://www.bonavolta.ch/hobby/files/Fuji_Chrome_6X_Instructions.pdf

polyglot
5-Jan-2013, 06:06
Of course you can do it yourself, but it isn't economcally reasonable unless you do a lot of it. Just find a good lab and send it off -- it will be cheaper and BETTER!

Hah! My local pro lab charges $6.50/sheet for C41 and $10/sheet for E6. I can do them at home for 30c and $1 respectively (Fuji 5L kits), and that's after paying double the sticker price of the chemistry due to international courier fees.


1. If I order Tetenal from B&H, btw I checked with them and they ship to Pakistan although the shipping cost is more than the cost of the actual item, and prepare it according to the instructions and store the chemicals in brown bottles, then what will be its shelf life. As pointed out by Ari, it would be best to shoot the max number that a c41 kit can process and then process them at the same time, hence no issue of shelf life, but for newbies like me, we have to take a shot then develop it to see if it came out right or not, the learning process, otherwise if we shoot so many then most probably the learning curve will be much longer and expensive

Tetenal I don't know because it's blix; once mixed, the bleach will eat the fixer and the life can be quite short. If you buy the Fuji or Rollei kits with separate bleach+fix, those components will keep for a year or two or more once mixed. The developers will keep for at least 4 months in a refrigerator with ALL air excluded (http://brodie-tyrrell.org/wiki/index.php?StoringDeveloper). C41 concentrates seem to keep for about a year with air excluded but E6 developer concentrate has gone slightly bad (10 point blue shift) on me after about 4mo.


2. A lot of people are talking about insulated coolers to keep the chemicals at the right temp, what are these and how they work

They're just an insulated plastic box designed to hold drinks, for example:
http://www.bigw.com.au/media/BIGW/Product/300x300/3101186_0_9999_med_v1_m56577569851660416.jpg
Because of the insulation, you can fill them with water at the right temperature and they will hold it accurately enough for the 3.5 minutes (negatives) or 10 minutes (chromes) that you need to get the development done.


3. Aljarzai pointed out that if I can agitate then I don't need a jobo at all, how much agitation is required?

Agitation is continuous.


4. @ Terry: what is a Rollie Digibase kit?

You need to do some searching on APUG and in my FAQ (http://brodie-tyrrell.org/wiki/index.php?C41Processing), but see also here (www.macodirect.de/chemistry-c-416_404.html).

photobymike
5-Jan-2013, 06:07
I have to disagree with that.
The Tetenal kit costs me $35 including shipping; it will process 60 4x5 sheets if I use it properly; I often wait until I have 50-60 sheets to process.
At my local lab, 60 4x5 sheets would cost me $210 plus tax = $239.40
And I find the results at home far exceed what I get back from the lab (low contrast, thin negatives).

I am with Ari on this one.... My color negs are far easier to scan than machine run with kodak chemistry. More contrast and more saturation of color, almost like Fuji Velvia in saturation.

Ari
8-Jan-2013, 20:19
1. If I order Tetenal from B&H, btw I checked with them and they ship to Pakistan although the shipping cost is more than the cost of the actual item, and prepare it according to the instructions and store the chemicals in brown bottles, then what will be its shelf life. As pointed out by Ari, it would be best to shoot the max number that a c41 kit can process and then process them at the same time, hence no issue of shelf life, but for newbies like me, we have to take a shot then develop it to see if it came out right or not, the learning process, otherwise if we shoot so many then most probably the learning curve will be much longer and expensive

Raffay, I pay $20 for the Tetenal kit, and $15 for shipping and customs; I usually buy two or more kits, so that the extra costs are minimized somewhat.
The chemicals will kepp well enough, if you use bottles that can stay almost air-tight, or use the chemicals judiciously.
I like to process important work in one batch, but for regular stuff, I will use the Tetenal until I see it starting to get exhausted.
I think if you order from B&H, you may as well get three kits or more, and try that to see how you like it.

victorknotzel
14-Jan-2013, 02:24
Here in cold Denmark, the 5 litre Tetenal kit will cost me $100 without shipping. I have to order it from Germany. Is that a reasonable price, and how many sheets will it develop? (i quite new to C41). There is one lab that will develop 4x5, they charge $16 for ONE sheet.

polyglot
14-Jan-2013, 04:18
The Rollei or Fuji 5L kits from macodirect would seem to be better value.