View Full Version : What tools do I need to make a metal lens board?
Hi,
I am completely unschooled in metalworking.
I have a metal 8x10 on its way to me soon, and I'll need to make a few lens boards, maybe even a Technika adapter.
There are some cheap drill presses available locally, but I don't really know what they do other than punch holes in stuff.
What's your advice?
Thanks in advance.
EDIT: Whoops, posted in the wrong section...again.
Sorry, mods; please move to the lounge.
Thanks
Make a wooden lensboard and don't bother with metal.
Make a wooden lensboard and don't bother with metal.
must...be...metal...
Daniel Stone
2-Jan-2013, 14:37
Ari,
If you want a quality product in the long run, just contract SKGrimes to make an adapter for you.
Or get them to drill boards for you, they charged me $30/each, this also includes affixing flanges if you supply them(if you have lenses w/ flanges that is).
What camera are you (making) boards for?
Bob Salomon
2-Jan-2013, 14:42
Ari,
Some boards, Linhof for example, have light traps built into the back of the board. Will your camera need a trap? If so making a board just got more difficult.
The first step to making your own board would be to get a manufacturer's board so you can see and measure exactly what has to be done. Then you mill (not drill) the hole for the shutter.
Hi Daniel,
Thanks for the advice.
I have an Eastman Commercial View coming this way.
If it's a matter of having someone else make holes, then I can find a local shop.
Bob,
I made some wooden boards with a light trap, and they worked very well.
A Technika adapter might be a different story, harder to make.
There will be an original board included with the camera, so I can use that as a starting point.
Thank you for your advice.
Depends on how thick, assuming aluminum. I'd just go to ebay. Otherwise hole saws will do the job just fine on a decent drill press. Light does not bend around corners as far as i know. I've made boards from abs, plastic, wood and never had an issue with light leaks but maybe w/your camera i suppose light may bend. Aluminum can be cut on a table saw w/ the proper blade. I've made two linhof adapters from 1/4" ABS, it's easy to rout/cut.
Thanks, Vinny; yes it would be aluminum.
EBay would be better and easier, but I haven't seen a reasonably-priced metal board there for some time.
What I have done with the Plaubels I have bought (which have very costly and complicated lensboards) is to buy a Technika adapter from here (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350140071862?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649) which is the only one I could find with an additional inner flange. I then cut a square hole in the Plaubel lensboard a little bigger than the size of the inner flange of the adapter using a coping saw, I then mounted the adapter onto the Plaubel lensboard, stuck it down with gaffer tape whilst I drilled a small hole in each corner for a rivet. Before riveting I stuck some thin closed cell foam around the opening on the Plaubel board so that when the board was riveted there would be both a good light seal and some form of cushioning to prevent any movement.
Actually seemed to take longer to explain than to do.
Should be just as easy with any other type of adapter as I have seen varients to Sinar/Horseman boards too.
Brad Rippe
2-Jan-2013, 15:38
Ari, You have to be really careful drilling metal. The bit will have a tendency to grab the metal with unforeseen results, and whatever you do, don't use one of those adjustable (wing cutter) drill bits, you will lose a finger, or worse in a split second. The coping saw would be a better way to go, or a table jig-saw, that's what I've used with success.
Also, it seems if you're making a lensboard for 8 by 10, the lens is going to be big, thus you'll need thicker aluminum, and the light trap design Bob mentioned is important.
Good Luck,
-Brad
Was this supposed to be in the For Sale forum?
No, I'm hoping the mods will move it soon.
My apologies for taking up space in the FS/WTB ads.
Ari,
The magnesium Eastman Commercial View (assuming that's what you have) takes 2D-style 6x6" (but with square corners) boards. Easiest to stick with wood. There's a guy on ebay who makes what looks like nice wooden 2D style boards for around $20 or so. He also offers a Technika to 2D adaptor board for, like, $25. He said he can make boards for the Commercial View (again, square corners). They're pretty simple. I did a hatchet job with mine using some 1/8"(?) pre-cut, gessoed one-side, 6x6 masonite board used by artists for painting. I had to cut out my own hole, a pain since I didn't really have the right tools (or, rather, I had the wrong size hole saw). At that price I'd probably just buy one pre-made for a slightly more professional look.
Jim Andrada
2-Jan-2013, 17:10
I find it works better to bore the hole in aluminum on my woodturning lathe - I chuck the bit (or actually the much maligned fly cutter) in the tailstock and advance it into the spinning board. Works quite cleanly and much better than on the drill press.
Would use a mill if I had one but the lathe works just fine. Hands are nowhere near the business end of the cutter, which is not revolving.
Ari, You have to be really careful drilling metal. The bit will have a tendency to grab the metal with unforeseen results, and whatever you do, don't use one of those adjustable (wing cutter) drill bits, you will lose a finger, or worse in a split second.
And from that point on you will never again be perplexed at the MRI pre-exam question, "Ever had metal bits or shavings in your eye?" :eek:
wombat2go
2-Jan-2013, 17:54
Trepanning a lens board in a lathe
https://www.box.com/s/3o99vlqmz9myv3d71f2c
Trepanning a lens board in a lathe
https://www.box.com/s/3o99vlqmz9myv3d71f2c
That's how it's done! A wing cutter in a drill press is do-able but the piece has to be securely anchored and cut very carefully at slow (250 rpm +/-) speed. If you're not comfortable working with powerful tools on the edge of mayhem get your local machinist to do it - like wombat showed.
Thank you, everybody.
I can make a wood board, I did so for a B&J 8x10, but a metal board would suit me (and the camera) better.
I would not likely attempt any metal work without some practice and hands-on assistance, thanks for the safety tips.
I wish this would get moved to the Lounge, where it belongs.
Sorry again for bothering everyone who's trying to sell or buy.
Scott Walker
2-Jan-2013, 19:26
Milling machine & knowledge to use it
Jim Jones
2-Jan-2013, 20:10
When drilling the hole in a lathe as wombat2go shows, consider backing the lens board with a piece of plywood slightly smaller than the lens board so the cutting tool can't push the lens board back towards the headstock. This also helps to mount the lens board flat in relation to the face of the chuck. I've also made a frame to mount on a faceplate that tightly clamps 4" boards with less damage than the four chuck jaws may do. A similar frame that clamps in a drill press vise makes using a fly cutter in the drill press relatively safe. These frames work with aluminum boards as well as plywood and MDF.
Tim Meisburger
2-Jan-2013, 20:26
It should be moved to the DIY thread, not the Lounge. Interesting in any case, as I am now trying to figure out how to make boards for my new Sinar Norma.
wombat2go
2-Jan-2013, 20:43
Yes, Jim,
The lens boards I make for my Speed Graphic are from 6061-T6 Al and are a sandwich of large size .080 inch thick and small size 0.190 inch thick. If you go full screen on my photo you will see how they are bolted together with Unbrakos for machining, later replaced by countersunk flat heads for appearance.
The 4 jaw grips the small size, and i tap the large size against the jaws with a soft mallet, checking runout.
The tailstock provides a little pressure back into the headstock
Trepanning a 3 inch hole, the SB9 is in lowest speed and backgears.
Tool angles are critical along with a light hand feed and oil.
I would like to see a photo of your faceplate frame.
I wouldn't recommend the lathe method unless you're quite comfortable around lathes, and the thought of a piece flying off and embedding itself in the far wall doesn't phase you. I've done one that had to be threaded, it was a PITA but very doable. If you're not that comfortable around power tools, I would start with a jigsaw and a file. Aluminum tends to bind with cutting tools and fill files, so the proper tooling set-up is indeed a milling machine with a proper cutter and some lube. You may find you have to buy your aluminum in 4x8' or 4x10' sheets.
wombat2go
2-Jan-2013, 22:10
I wouldn't recommend the lathe method unless you're quite comfortable around lathes, and the thought of a piece flying off and embedding itself in the far wall doesn't phase you. I've done one that had to be threaded, it was a PITA but very doable. If you're not that comfortable around power tools, I would start with a jigsaw and a file. Aluminum tends to bind with cutting tools and fill files, so the proper tooling set-up is indeed a milling machine with a proper cutter and some lube. You may find you have to buy your aluminum in 4x8' or 4x10' sheets.
whAT?
Aluminum files beautifully with hand tools
https://www.box.com/s/2lh98wqqjuy0doouf6hb
and is the easiest to learn with on a lathe
small cut to size pieces for a few bucks /pc can be had for example from , Stainless Supply Monroe NC USA
adelorenzo
2-Jan-2013, 23:15
FWIW I just made a lens board for a Commercial Ektar using an aluminium clipboard from staples and it worked perfectly, just the right thickness for my Toyo 4x5. I put a layer of Gorilla Tape on the backside to keep it snug and eliminate reflections. I already had the clipboard but if I didn't it would have been about $15 and has at least three more lens boards left in it.
Tools required were a hacksaw, round and flat files and drill with hole saw. I don't have a mounting ring for the lens so I made the hole a very snug fit and then used a couple of rubber O-rings and it is rock solid.
Jim Andrada
2-Jan-2013, 23:36
My lathe is set up for faceplate turning right now or I'd take a photo:<(
But basically I grip the lens board in a bowl turning chuck with 8 small "rubber" fingers and a small piece of backing behind it and mount the wing cutter in a chuck in the tailstock and advance the cutter with the crank on the tailstock. Would do it as in the photo if I had a metalworking lathe but I don't. I sometimes think of getting a "mini-lathe" with a milling attachment for this kind of small project but don't have space for any more machines. I know a couple of folks who have Bridgeport milling machines in their garages but I mainly do woodworking so instead I have a 3000 pound European combination woodworking system and a 24" bandsaw taking up half the garage.
I think the key to safety though is not to have the wing cutter rotating at high speed near your fingers, and to run the lathe at low enough speed that chips or even the workpiece itself aren't going to be flung out with any real force.
wombat2go
2-Jan-2013, 23:59
Jim, Thanks
Next comment / query I would make on Ari's thread is the difficulty of locating the original maker's centre point of the lens hole.
It may not be in the centre of the board. ??
It should be moved to the DIY thread, not the Lounge. Interesting in any case, as I am now trying to figure out how to make boards for my new Sinar Norma.
Agreed. More folks will see it here.
Rick "Done" Denney
FWIW I just made a lens board for a Commercial Ektar using an aluminium clipboard from staples and it worked perfectly, just the right thickness for my Toyo 4x5. I put a layer of Gorilla Tape on the backside to keep it snug and eliminate reflections. I already had the clipboard but if I didn't it would have been about $15 and has at least three more lens boards left in it.
Tools required were a hacksaw, round and flat files and drill with hole saw. I don't have a mounting ring for the lens so I made the hole a very snug fit and then used a couple of rubber O-rings and it is rock solid.
Nicely done. I like that everything was easily bought, and tools were nothing fancy.
In the end, I just need to make a few lens boards, and if they work well enough, I'll tackle a Technika adapter.
I like these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/270748292251?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
because the Tech board rests on the outside of the adapter, rather than having to fit inside a channel.
It would be easier to mount some larger lenses with that adapter, the kind where the Tech board is completely obscured by the shutter :)
Agreed. More folks will see it here.
Rick "Done" Denney
Thank you, Rick, and thanks to Mr Lee who took it out of the FS section (my mind must have been elsewhere).
Thank you, Rick, and thanks to Mr Lee who took it out of the FS section (my mind must have been elsewhere).
I didn't know Ken had gotten to it first. He's quick!
But next time, just hit the "report post" button--that will send us all an email. None of us had read this thread at all, and so could not respond to your earlier post requesting the move.
Rick "no worries" Denney
Harold_4074
3-Jan-2013, 13:23
I may have missed it in the preceding discussion but there is a cheap, simple way to make holes for lens mounting: use a pair of dividers to scribe the exact hole diameter needed, and then use a small drill bit (1/8" or so) in either a hand drill or drill press to make a row of holes that almost touch each other, just inside the scribed line. With a pair of wire cutters, nip the "web" between enough of the holes and break out the waste; then use coarse and fine half-round files to bring the hole right to the line. It doesn't have to be as precise as you might think, particularly if you are mounting a flange. For most shutters, the retaining ring can be used as a gauge to get the final fit, keeping the lens and shutter away from the grit and dust.
I have used this technique to salvage some old, wooden lensboards that had been drilled and re-drilled to the point where there wasn't enough left to mount a flange; a thin square of aluminum covered all of the screw holes and let me mount a modern lens quite neatly.
I may have missed it in the preceding discussion but there is a cheap, simple way to make holes for lens mounting: use a pair of dividers to scribe the exact hole diameter needed, and then use a small drill bit (1/8" or so) in either a hand drill or drill press to make a row of holes that almost touch each other, just inside the scribed line. With a pair of wire cutters, nip the "web" between enough of the holes and break out the waste; then use coarse and fine half-round files to bring the hole right to the line. It doesn't have to be as precise as you might think, particularly if you are mounting a flange. For most shutters, the retaining ring can be used as a gauge to get the final fit, keeping the lens and shutter away from the grit and dust.
I have used this technique to salvage some old, wooden lensboards that had been drilled and re-drilled to the point where there wasn't enough left to mount a flange; a thin square of aluminum covered all of the screw holes and let me mount a modern lens quite neatly.
I like your method, too, Harold.
There are many ways to skin a cat, and I probably should not be near motorized cutting tools, so I'll take a few excellent suggestions from all here, and make something workable.
And I won't get hurt doing it. :)
Thanks to all.
big_ben_blue
3-Jan-2013, 16:32
Harold's method works well ... I've used it for a number of unrelated projects; but be warned, it's a slow process (compared to using power tools) and the hand filing will get you to look like Popeye the Sailor in no time
Working with metal is a job for a fully equipped machine shop, and a qualified metal worker. A fellow I went to college with was the son of a machine shop owner. The father gave both of us jobs to help with school. I lived in constant fear of losing a digit, or having metal shavings sprayed into my eyes. I did, in fact, slide some red hot welding slag off a work table. It dropped on my foot, and burned completely through my foot. I found it in the bottom of my shoe. The good news was that as it burned through the fleshy part of my foot, it lanced the wound passing through.
If you clamp a 4 inch piece of metal plate to a work bench, and try to drive a large bit through it, with either a drill press or a power drill, and if the drill bit seizes on the metal, it will become a spinning knife and take a finger off before you see the blood spraying out.
Furthermore, if your lens board requires a turned edge all around to fit in the light trap of a front standard, it's going to take the kind of tools that can do this job cleanly. Not likely that one could do this with hand tools. You need hydraulic presses, powered breaks and powered shears (these make fingers vanish in the blink of an eye.)
If you know anyone who is an employee in a machine shop (and a veteran at that), ask him to take off all his clothes. Inspect closely, look for scars, count digits, there should be 20, just for the hands and feet.
Do you play any musical instruments that require ten fingers... well... two thumbs and eight fingers.
Get an OEM lens board, or get the specs and have one made. You won't get charged for anyone else's fingers at a commercial machine shop.
Get it?
alpenhause
4-Jan-2013, 12:51
Hi Ari,
A visit to a local sheet metal fabricator such as a heating and air conditioning service shop is easy and inexpensive.
These shops can make you a lens board in just minutes and pop a hole in the middle of just about any size you want.
FM Pierce Heating and Air Conditioning in Santa Paula, California fabricates all of the lens boards for the Alpenhause cameras on a regular basis very rapidly at a low cost.
Just draw up a simple plan with measurements and even bring the camera and you will have what you need in about an hour or less with little cost.
Hi Ari,
A visit to a local sheet metal fabricator such as a heating and air conditioning service shop is easy and inexpensive.
These shops can make you a lens board in just minutes and pop a hole in the middle of just about any size you want.
FM Pierce Heating and Air Conditioning in Santa Paula, California fabricates all of the lens boards for the Alpenhause cameras on a regular basis very rapidly at a low cost.
Just draw up a simple plan with measurements and even bring the camera and you will have what you need in about an hour or less with little cost.
Thanks, Steve!
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