Zion / Yosemite trip recomendations

[brucep]

I'm at the early stages of planning a two week trip in September from the UK. My plan at the moment is to fly into Las Vagas and spend 4 nights in Zion; drive to Death Valley for a couple of nights, then drive on to Yosemitie for about a week before flying out of San Franscisco.

Does this sound like a good plan, or am I missing some "must photograph" eg Bryce Canyon and doing something like death valley which may not be the best use of 2 nights?

Any recomendations?

[John Jarosz]

You will never "see it all" on one trip to the Western US. You'll also hear that you need to do this or that, but you could spend more time in any of your 3 locations and still not see it all. Even within one of your locations travel distances are greater than you think they'll be. It takes more effort to get off the beaten track, or to schedule photography when the light is right. Photographs taken at high noon look like photographs taken at high noon. Think of an initial trip like this as more of a scouting trip. You'll certainly get some photography done, but you'll see things you haven't anticipated and realize you need to come back to obtain a specific image. Besides, no two photographers have the same objective in mind. And, your objectives may change when you actually see the West.

Your plan sounds fine. My advice would be to not try to do too much beyond what you've stated. When I plan a trip to that area I just plan a general route with a couple of definite stops. The rest of the time I go where/when the opportunities arise based on what I see. You could spend 3 hours on the side of an un-named road doing the best photography possible - that alone will screw up a tightly planned itinerary - but that's the kind of photography that yields the best images.

I need to get out there again too.

John

[thomasfallon]

Don't underestimate the beauty of Death Valley. Zabriske Point is a must. All the photographers will arrive before sunrise and leave as soon as the sun comes up. The light is flat and boring. In twenty minutes or so, it will be kissing all the peaks and photograph wonderfully. It is equally great in late afternoon. Death Valley National Park is larger than some states. Artist's Palette, Badwater, Devil's Gold Course, and any of the dunes should fill two days for you. The dunes are a must for sunrise to avoid footprints. Get there early before anyone else and walk far in where it is pristine.

A major omission on your trip is the slot canyons. Antelope Canyon is two hours from Zion. It can be photographed in a couple hours and you will have an incredible variety of images. Also there in Page, AZ is Horseshoe Bend. That is best at sunset. To make the best use of your time, a day in Page, AZ will give you lots of great images you cannot get anywhere else in the world.

[John Kasaian]

You're not going to cover everything even if you have a lifetime to spend. Use your itinerary as a skeleton and fill in whatever else you can as time allows. Be flexible.
You might consider Las Vegas-Grand Canyon-Zion-Yosemite-Mono/Mammoth-Death Valley-Las Vegas, unless San Francisco holds your interest, as a r/t airfare to Las Vegas might be less costly than open jaws, plus you'll avoid return fees for your rental car. This would also give you the eastern slope of the Sierras and the Grand Canyon

[ROL]

I think your basic itinerary is good, with plenty of time to make discoveries in each location. But, with the exception of Zion (e.g., southern Utah), September would not be my time of choice for photography in those locations. I wouldn't waste much time with Bryce, other than as a drive-by. Photographically, it tends to be a one-trick pony, and proper lighting can make it a difficult one at that. However, Bryce is at the southern end of UT highway 12. The drive through the upper Escalante on 12 is one of the most scenic anywhere. Coyote Buttes (i.e., The Wave), is worth the brief side trip east of Zion, if you can get a permit. Of course, the Grand Canyon, and its general environs.

It will still be quite hot in DV, easily 100º+ – but then mad dogs and Englishmen... :rolleyes:. "Yosemite", varying in elevation from about 2000' to 12,000'+, will be "dry", unless we get a very wet winter. None of the major waterfalls, save the Merced drainage, will likely be flowing. Snow will be restricted to the highest, and distant elevations. Meadows will be brown (golden?), with only a few late blooming wildflowers. Because of normally stable, dry, post summer weather patterns, September is high season for climbing in the Valley, if that is a consideration. Be certain to sign up for "print viewing", unique to the AA Galley there.

But here's the take-a-way. Be as flexible as you have said you are willing to be and you'll have an amazing time, whether or not a camera is from and center. I was talking just last night with an Aussie expatriate, who was decrying the 2 day drive to and from Glacier National Park from SoCal. Remember that the journey is likely to be just as, if not more, important than the destination, photographically or otherwise.

[Eric James]

I think that your basic plan is a good one. Although Bryce and destinations further east (or south) are amazing, you'll double your drive time and add to the gas bill - consider heading east of Zion on another trip. Depending on timing and the light, I would recommend spending a sunrise or sunset at Alabama Hills and Mono Lake - these are only a few miles "out of your way" en route to Yosemite via Tioga Pass. Slightly more distant is Bodie State Historical Park - it's approximately a 70 mile round trip from your turn into Yosemite National Park. John Kasaian's LV to LV suggestion should be given some thought, if San Francisco is just a hub for your return flight.

[Drew Wiley]

Death Valley itself might still be pretty hot in Sept (to state it conservatively!), but if you
can't spend much time there that time of year, it is fairly quick to cross it over to Lone Pine, and then up Hwy 395. There are numerous side canyons into the eastern Sierra
escarpment you migh want to check out. The drive up to Lk Sabrina above Bishop, and
then up to road's end on Rock Creek above Tom's place are fairly quick and might give you
an early taste of fall color, and some closer sights of the peaks. You can access the Yosemite area over Tioga Pass, of course; but Sonora Pass slightly farther north will be
equally beautiful that time of year, and would allow you a loop trip.

[ericpmoss]

My September experience has been that Yosemite has beautiful hiking weather, but as noted, is too dry for much waterfall action, and too early for good color. Zion is hot (hot!) and also too early for foliage color, though always nice for the rocks. Bryce and much of the Southwest will have great stark landscape (Monument Valley OMG), but I'd go north -- e.g. Jackson Hole, from where you can drive to the Grand Tetons, Yellowstone, and up to Glacier National before the park accommodations close, or down to Rocky Mountain National Park, all without enduring endless miles of nothing in between.

But, as said above, the places you've picked will still blow your mind when you first see them, and you could spend a week in each, hiking at least 10 miles a day through awe-inspiring views. I'd first go to Moab, then to Bryce, then to Zion, as the "wow" factor increases in that order, IMO. Then drive back to LV and fly to SF, where you can either rent a car to go to Yosemite Valley and Tuolumne Meadows, or Amtrak it cheaply (though you might not have an easy time getting to Tuolumne depending on the date).

[brucep]

Generally, September sounds like it might not be the best month for yosemite, and Zion / Death valley may be very hot (not suited to my pasty white northern england skin!) so as my dates are flexible, would I be better postponing for a few weeks and go in early/mid October instead for cooler weather, Autumn colours, and better waterfalls?

many thanks for your advice so far.

[Drew Wiley]

Oct will certainly have much more fall color; but this is altitude dependent, of course. Too
early for color in Zion Can per se, but upper Zion and nearby Kolob Can will probably have changed color. Eastern Sierras will have aspen color in the upper canyons, around 9,000 ft or so, but not way down in Yosemite Valley, though it will have quieted some per crowds and will not be as hot or smoggy as in Sept. Just remember that snowfall will be inevitable somewhere along this kind of route. Accommodations will be scarcer in Oct, and it is very very very advisable to keep warm sleeping bags in your rental car, along with extra food and water. Weather can vary considerably, from winter-like to downright hot in Oct. Getting stuck in snow or having car breakdown can become seriously dangerous if you're not prepared for that kind of thing. And don't rely on cell phone reception. Also be cautious about deer hunters in the aspen that time of year; but overall, it's an absolutely
wonderful season to make such a tour.

[ericpmoss]

Try http://myyosemite.com to get a feel for the place from the viewpoint of someone living there year-round. You may find that 4 of 5 early Octobers have been great (or not). If you find such a pattern, you can get at least better than coin-flip chances.

BTW, October is when the night fog and moonbows seems to start up. Even without roaring waterfalls (those are really spring/early-summer things), it's pretty cool: http://www.flickr.com/photos/27163343@N00/6250539848/in/set-72157627828844404

[ROL]

Sierran waterfalls will be even drier, if not nonexistent. They flow with the spring snow melt, and normally won't be back in any significant fashion until April or May for a few months run (whereupon the park service promptly turns them off :rolleyes:). Autumn color in the Sierra peaks at easily accessible and specific locations in mid October, but is nothing to write home about compared to other areas of the country. However, once again, higher elevations in southern Utah (e.g., UT 12) are fantabulous by late September. The Virgin River part of lower Zion, as well as Yosemite Valley, peak, such as they do, in mid to late November.



P.S. Yes, I have personally been asked, many times, by tourists, when the NPS shuts off the waterfalls (and I doubt they'll turn them back on just for you).

[Drew Wiley]

Hard to predict this far in advance. Yosemite Creek sometimes goes totally dry; but last two years waterfalls in the backcountry have to spectacular right thru Aug and Sept due
to heavy late season precipitation. Spring has the advantage of big runoff in the Valley
and the spectacular wildflower shows downhill in the lower canyons etc; but you can't
drive the passes like Tioga. Oct you get nice color up in the aspen and the passes are
generally open, and the crowds have thinned. Over toward Zion things are more buggy
in Spring. Oct still attracts some flash floods, so slot canyons are dicey. Nov gives you
color down in the valley floors, both Zion and Yos. Prior to that, I think you have to take
a shuttle bus into Zion. Gets cold in Nov. But heck, I'd be willing to go there any month of
the yr. If it's too hot down in the canyon, just go to the rim. ... But my favorite time is
indeed late Oct/ early Nov.

[Harley Goldman]

For color in Yosemite and Zion, the end of October or even better first week of November would be a higher probability. And DV would be a lot cooler. However, the eastern Sierra would be way past prime.

[Leszek Vogt]

As others have mentioned, keeping somewhat flexible is the key. IMO, I probably would trim the Zion stay to two nights and explore other stuff like Bryce, Valley of Fire, Cedar Breaks...or even Northern side of Grand Canyon ? (IF they didn't close it for the Winter). Were you thinking of hiking to Angel's Landing at Zion ? Amazing views, in any case. That said, I'd rip through Nevada and maybe stop at that one horse...ok scratch that, one light (or two) sounds better....Jim G. Tonopah....before you scale the Sierra's. Frankly, I wouldn't touch Death Valley with a 10' pole...unless it's Nov or later. Again, you can play it by ear, if it's beyond your comfort level, you could rip to Sequoia (over 6000') and stay there till you decide how much time you wish to spend in Yosemite and/or SF. Having a laptop with you would help in making reservations (or conforming them) on the go. I just realized that I haven't been to Zion in 30+yrs, yet I explored other areas and without dropping in there. I think Oct. would be little cooler and easier to find lodging, since 95% of the vacationers will be missing and kids will be back in school. Yeah, worry about the 5% :D. The bottom line is, have a nice time.

Les

[brucep]

WOW, what a lot of useful info!

I'm researching every bit of information you have all provided before I make a decision. Yosemite is a must, as I want to take my partner as she has seen a lot of the photos that I took climbing there in the early eighties, but that was May (and yes we did get a snow storm climbing El Cap), so all the waterfalls were running.

I'm trying not to do to much driving as we have recently returned from a trip around the Namib and Kalahari desert which involved some long days on dirt roads, so this is supposed to be a bit more relaxed. Apparently, on a two week trip, booked in the UK, there is no extra fee for dropping the car of at a different location than the pickup hence return flight from SF.

I'm now thinking late Oct/ early Nov for the trip having a few days at Zion then drive to Yosemite with an overnight somewhere.

Anyone any recomendations for accomadation at Zion, or any where to avoid.

Thanks
Bruce

[Preston]

Bruce,

I can't answer your question regarding lodging at Zion, but I will say that you need to decide on your arrival date at Yosemite and the number of nights there and then make your reservations as soon as you can. Even though that time of year is less crazy than the late spring or summer, there is still a goodly number of people and reservations are hard to get if you wait.

--P

[ROL]

Yosemite is a must, as I want to take my partner as she has seen a lot of the photos that I took climbing there in the early eighties

Bruce,

I can't answer your question regarding lodging at Zion, but I will say that you need to decide on your arrival date at Yosemite and the number of nights there and then make your reservations as soon as you can. Even though that time of year is less crazy than the late spring or summer, there is still a goodly number of people and reservations are hard to get if you wait.

--P

OTOH, maybe he's thinking Camp 4. ;)

[Scott Davis]

I went in early October a few years ago, and had beautiful weather. I had planned my trip around the Columbus Day weekend (Monday, October 14 this year), and the ony time I had an issue with a place to stay was that weekend - the week before I was able to just find a place, walk in and get a room. The fall colors were definitely present at higher elevations. Tioga Pass was still open, as was Sonora. Days were warm, but nights got downright frigid. Another spot to consider on the way to Yosemite if you're coming from the east and south is Devil's Postpile, just outside Mammoth (a big ski area which has lots of lodging options). If you want to see a waterfall that will be running, Rainbow Falls is at Devil's Postpile and was quite energetic in October. If you're not used to it, the elevation can take a good bit out of you, as you'll be spending a lot of time around (and even above) 9000'. Lee Vining, the town nearest Yosemite on the eastern side, has places to stay also, but not as many, and they're often booked solid in advance.

[Drew Wiley]

There's a nice campground with hot showers and a store just outside the main entrance to
Zion in Springdale. The town itself is a bit of a tourist trap. There's a big IMax theatre right there so you can see movies of the park (sacrilege!), and Fatali's gallery is down the street (whether you admire him personally or not, it's worth visiting), and plenty of coffee joints etc. Zion Lodge inside the Park would have to be booked quite early, though things
are less crowded in Nov.

[Preston]

OTOH, maybe he's thinking Camp 4. ;)

True enough, but his girlfriend may not be. :D


"...Rainbow Falls is at Devil's Postpile and was quite energetic in October"

Rainbow Falls is beautiful. Also, Devil's Postpile itself is quite intriguing. Hike to the top and you'll see nice patterns formed by the tops of the basaltic columns that have been polished by glacial action.


Lee Vining, the town nearest Yosemite on the eastern side, has places to stay also, but not as many, and they're often booked solid in advance.

Quite true; especially if the Autumn color is nice and/or weather conditions are favorable for photography. There are typically several workshops in the area in the Fall, so the best spots, including the South side of Mono Lake, will be heavily impacted.

Assuming Tioga Pass is open, go up high to Tuolumne Meadows, the domes, and Tenaya Lake areas. They offer great food for the soul.

--P

[ericpmoss]

I'm trying not to do to much driving [...]

I'm now thinking late Oct/ early Nov for the trip having a few days at Zion then drive to Yosemite with an overnight somewhere.

Anyone any recomendations for accomadation at Zion, or any where to avoid.

I've stayed at several places near Zion.

The Driftwood Lodge: It's quite nice, and near nice restaurants and bars, but at the far end of town.

Zion Park Motel: It's quite plain, but relatively cheap and you can actually walk from there to the park entrance if you miss the free shuttle for some reason. If you and partner don't mind plain accommodations, you can spend the savings on good meals or renting bikes (Zion Cycles) to tour the valley floor, or wetsuits if you feel safe going way up The Narrows.

Cable Mountain Lodge: much nicer than my own apartment, and complementary tickets to the iMax where they have first run movies. That's not a real incentive, but a nice perk -- I saw Inception on a 70' screen with noone else in the theater. It's also inside the park itself (or close enough), and near a convenience store for getting hiking food.

Desert Pearl: Another super-nice place. Some people won't stay anywhere else, and I can see why. It's slightly farther from the park than Cable Mountain, but still very walkable, and very near good food. Any of these places is fine, and the last 3 are fantastic. I haven't stayed at the Zion Park Lodge, but I bet it's pretty great, too.

For food, I liked Whiptail Grill, which is at the first shuttle stop outside the park. The cook looks like a 70s rock star and makes killer food, IMO. You can sit outside at sunset, watch the canyon turn red and follow the falcons as they hunt pigeons. It's a really nice way to end the day. The Spotted Dog is across the street and looked good, but I had such a comfy routine that I felt no loss w/o it.

There are some fancier places such as Parallel 88 that was good for meaty fare, but I'd go to the organic grocery in town for breakfast food and hiking snacks, spend ALL day in the park, starting with the earliest shuttle, and gorge at the Whiptail after you're done hiking or getting that last sunset shot. You can go to Oscars for standard (but good) food if you want to run into other photographers. I haven't found anywhere with good coffee there, unless it's at the high-end restaurants.

BTW, if you stay at a fancy-ish place, ask if there are rooms with a view of the river or the canyon/sunrise/sunset. It can't hurt, though it's better to be out in it during daylight.

[brucep]

OTOH, maybe he's thinking Camp 4. ;)

I staid on Camp 4 last time, but If I suggested it this time, then I would be on my own while she stayed in the Lodge!

[dperez]

For the Yosemite area if you do not plan on camping in the valley and would rather stay in a motel, you should to try to lock down a reservation in advance. Motels all around Yosemite and the Eastern Sierras tend to charge holiday rates during the month of October. El Portal has the closest motels outside of the park.

Zion and Yosemite should be your highlights, but like others have said September may not be the best time. Mid to late October should offer more color if that is of interest to you. Death Valley is awesome, but distances are far and you only have a couple of weeks, although there are things you can check out in DV on your way up to Lone Pine.

A decent little book you might want to pick up for your time in Yosemite is Michael Frye's The Photographer's Guide to Yosemite (http://www.amazon.com/Photographers-Guide-Yosemite-Michael-Frye/dp/1930238290)

Best of luck,

-DP

[ImSoNegative]

going out west is def. on my "to do" list

[Boinzo]

I had a trip to Zion and Yosemite in late September just past.
I'd say the amount of time you spend at Zion will depend on how much hiking you are in to and whether you are going to try for the Subway and the Narrows. Some of the best hikes there are very strenuous if you are carrying much LF gear.
I can second the Whiptail Grill in Springdale - awesome. Best meal I had in Utah easily. I stayed at the Zion Lodge for one night and thought it a bit over-rated. Next night I moved to the Zion Canyon B&B in Springdale - fantastic place. Can't recommend it highly enough.
I can also recommend a visit to David West's Gallery in Springdale - David is a lovely guy and was kind enough to sell me a replacement tripod when my existing one broke. He shoots mostly digital but is worth visiting just to say hi.
If I had my trip again I'd spend more time in Death Valley - it's just amazing. But you need to be highly prepared obviously.
Yosemite was great but I would want to make sure I was staying in the valley. My accommodation was a 40 minute drive away - a bit tiring after a big hike and a real time waster.
I also drove SB12 from Bryce to Moab. Fantastic drive. Would be great to have the time to meander along there over a few days and explore some side tracks like the Hole in the Wall Road and stuff.
One of the best pieces of advise I got from the fine people here was to take a look at Laurent Martre's books "Photographing the South-West". Very useful indeed.
Mostly I was left just wanting to get back there! And soon.

[Drew Wiley]

I think just about the best way to ruin a trip is a "see it all" mentality, rushing from one
"must see" spot to another. Heck, you couldn't see all the fantastic places in the Soutwest
in twenty lifetimes. And I've been hiking the Sierra for more than half a century - hundreds
of trips - and there are still significant area I haven't even seen yet. You can realistically slide from Zion thru Vegas and Death Valley over to Lone Pine then up across Tioga into Yosemite. But if you're in a rush with no time to do some relaxed walking, you'll miss the best part of the experience. There are plenty of easy walking opportunities in Zion if you
don't want to grunt all the way up to the rim. You can also take to Kolob Can entrance for
fabulous dayhikes at higher elevation, or simply drive thru the tunnel up to the top to
explore little side canyons. A lot of the magic is discovering things for yourself rather than
letting a postcard or guidebook dictate what you need to see. Sometimes the best shots
come that way too.
l

[C. D. Keth]

I think just about the best way to ruin a trip is a "see it all" mentality, rushing from one
"must see" spot to another.

Hear, hear!! Drew's advice is the most solid I've read in this thread.

Bruce, whatever you do try to be willing to be flexible. If you find something wonderful in zion, stay an extra day. If you really explore one great place, you won't be missing out on anything.

[ignatiusjk]

I would spend less time in Death Valley and more in Yosemite.If you've never been here before(the Staes) Yosemite is a photographic must see.Your camera will be warm to the touch from photographing Yosemite.Zion is nice but I liked Bryce Canyon better.Enjoy and notice all of the foreiners in Yosemite.

[Richard Raymond]

Bruce,
Good luck with the trip. I think that it is quite possible for you to do your trip as planned. The confusion for most of us is that your trip initially takes a 2-3 hour drive east to Zion, then you have to drive the 2-3 hours back to Las Vegas to then travel west to Death Valley -- another two to three hour trip (assuming you plan to stay at Furnace Creek or Stove Pipe Wells). This is a lot of "Car Time". I am sure that this is why some are recommending going more East to Moab or Monument Valley, etc.
As you have strong personal reasons for visiting Yosemite you might want to consider a trip focusing on the Sierras. Arrive in Las Vegas and plan stops from Red Rock Canyon, Joshua tree, Death Valley, Sequoia, Kings Canyon, the 395 corridor from Lone Pine north to Mono Lake and Yosemite. I am sure that you could make a plan that would minimize the amount of "in car time" and provide for a variety of things to do and see. Note: aside from Death Valley you will have a good variety of motels to choose from even without reservations during the fall.
Later in September and early October will provide for the best chance for color without getting plans changed by snow. Death Valley will be warm but not hot. Make sure that you plan a little time for San Francisco to see the sites, enjoy the food and photograph.
Regards
Ric