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Leonard Evens
30-Dec-2012, 23:03
I have four Riteway film holders. I like them because they have transparent dials you can set to number the sheets of film. Fidelity film holders don't have any thing like that, and you have to cut notches to accomplish the same sort of thing.

But it seems that Riteway film holders are no longer available.

Are there any other 4 x 5 film holders which are available, except for the old standard Fidelity film holders, which have similar features?

evan clarke
31-Dec-2012, 04:28
I have four Riteway film holders. I like them because they have transparent dials you can set to number the sheets of film. Fidelity film holders don't have any thing like that, and you have to cut notches to accomplish the same sort of thing.

But it seems that Riteway film holders are no longer available.

Are there any other 4 x 5 film holders which are available, except for the old standard Fidelity film holders, which have similar features?


You can still buy Toyos but the Riteways with the lock and little dials are history. They are my favorite, I accumulated about 100 of them before the virtually disappeared. EC

amac212
2-Jan-2013, 13:19
I just painted permanent numbers on all of my film holders (using nailpolish enamel). It comes in handy if I find that one particular holder seems to be showing signs of lightleaks or other issues since the numbers will always be the same. Perhaps that would work for you if you cannot find holders with a dial.

Jonathan Barlow
2-Jan-2013, 13:40
I just painted permanent numbers on all of my film holders (using nailpolish enamel). It comes in handy if I find that one particular holder seems to be showing signs of lightleaks or other issues since the numbers will always be the same. Perhaps that would work for you if you cannot find holders with a dial.


How does numbering the film holders allow you to connect a piece of film to a particular holder? Have you also notched the frames?

Bernice Loui
2-Jan-2013, 20:38
4x5 Grafmatic sheet film holder has a numbering wheel built in.

Another way is to notch the film holder flap, this produce a notch when the film is processed given there is enough light to expose the notch film area.


Bernice



I have four Riteway film holders. I like them because they have transparent dials you can set to number the sheets of film. Fidelity film holders don't have any thing like that, and you have to cut notches to accomplish the same sort of thing.

But it seems that Riteway film holders are no longer available.

Are there any other 4 x 5 film holders which are available, except for the old standard Fidelity film holders, which have similar features?

Leonard Evens
2-Jan-2013, 22:51
I just painted permanent numbers on all of my film holders (using nailpolish enamel). It comes in handy if I find that one particular holder seems to be showing signs of lightleaks or other issues since the numbers will always be the same. Perhaps that would work for you if you cannot find holders with a dial.

I've labelled all my film holders, but that is not what I was talking about. I want some way to tell from the developed film sheet which holder it was in. One obvious reason would be to tell which holder is leaking light when that happens. Another reason is that I often make two or more exposures of the same scene using different settings, so I need to be able to tell from the developed film sheets which exposure was which. (I record all the settings for each exposure in a small notebook I carry with me.) The Riteway film holders have internal transparent dials with numbers on them. That creates a number of the edge of the film sheet.

Leonard Evens
2-Jan-2013, 22:55
4x5 Grafmatic sheet film holder has a numbering wheel built in.

Another way is to notch the film holder flap, this produce a notch when the film is processed given there is enough light to expose the notch film area.


Bernice

If you notch the edge of the film holder at the flap or elsewhere, then when you make an exposure, the notch will show up on the film. Development can be done, as usual, in complete darkness. But I am nervous about doing that because if I do it wrong, I may create a light leak. I also have lots of film holders, so I woul have to put in many notches on some of them.

Brian C. Miller
3-Jan-2013, 01:07
The Grafmatic holders have two notches where the photographer is supposed to glue a little bit of plastic with some kind of information on it. I always thought that this would be a good idea, and do the same with a normal holder. You could use a tiny bit of tape folded over into a tab, and then it wouldn't be permanent.

amac212
4-Jan-2013, 12:27
How does numbering the film holders allow you to connect a piece of film to a particular holder? Have you also notched the frames?

John, I record every exposure (always have). So I shoot, put the darkslide back in, pick up the digital recorder hanging from an arm of my tripod head and enter the film holder #, type of film, speed at which shot, lens and camera, exposure details and image details. Back home, it all gets logged into a tabbed spreadsheet. Sounds like a lot but it's not at all.

Once in a blue moon my description is not enough for me to go back and identify what film holder I used to capture the shot. Or sometimes when I do several takes. But with large format, that's less common for me than when I'm shooting med format.

Works out for me :)

Brian Ellis
4-Jan-2013, 21:19
John, I record every exposure (always have). So I shoot, put the darkslide back in, pick up the digital recorder hanging from an arm of my tripod head and enter the film holder #, type of film, speed at which shot, lens and camera, exposure details and image details. Back home, it all gets logged into a tabbed spreadsheet. Sounds like a lot but it's not at all.

Once in a blue moon my description is not enough for me to go back and identify what film holder I used to capture the shot. Or sometimes when I do several takes. But with large format, that's less common for me than when I'm shooting med format.

Works out for me :)

That of course can be done but I don't think a system of recording exposure and other information is what Leonard is asking about. He's asking about something that will allow him to know which holder a sheet of film came from simply by looking at the sheet of exposed and processed film.

Leigh
5-Jan-2013, 04:23
I have four Riteway film holders. I like them because they have transparent dials you can set to number the sheets of film. Fidelity film holders don't have any thing like that, and you have to cut notches to accomplish the same sort of thing.
But it seems that Riteway film holders are no longer available.
Are there any other 4 x 5 film holders which are available, except for the old standard Fidelity film holders, which have similar features?
Hi Leonard,

There are no similar holders from other makers that I know of.
It's odd, since the same company made Riteway and Fidelity during that time period.

I like them because it's very easy to identify the exact holder and side for any sheet.
I label every holder with a number and A or B for the side, then set the same number on both sets of dials.

When I process, I do all the A sides first, then all the B sides, so I can distinguish between them.
This has an added benefit in that I often take duplicate (safety) exposures. If a problem occurs during the
A-side processing I can correct it and still have a usable negative from the B side.

Like you, I really love these. I have almost a hundred of them.

- Leigh

mikebarger
5-Jan-2013, 08:25
On some used holders I've bought there was a clear tab with a black number on it on each holder/each side. There were like little post it notes. I haven't ever seen anything like that before, kinda of a neat idea.

Vaughn
5-Jan-2013, 09:00
I just keep good notes and pay attention to which negatives I am developing so I know which is which when I go to store them and write the info on the negative sleeves. I blow it sometimes, but I usually I only take two of each scene, and can usually see the difference between the negs (exposure or development changes).

But I did get a set of 8x10 holders that someone had drilled small holes in the rails inside the holder that hold the film in place. This allows the light to expose small round areas in the rebate of the film. Of course, if the area occupied by the hole only receives a Zone 0 exposure, nothing will show up on the rebate. But it is an alternative to filing notches in the holder.

Fred L
5-Jan-2013, 09:05
Notching the flaps is the what I do as it doesn't intrude on the image whereas the Grafmatic wheels do and hence why I pulled them out.

I know some people have a system,ie- oval notch equals 5, v notch =10 etc and something else represents a single digit. kinda like roman numerals basically. so V, something, something would =12 etc etc.. I'm not that organized so my holders are all random notched as I don't think sequential numbering is that important.

Roger Cole
5-Jan-2013, 09:34
You'd have to notch them I guess. In a way, this would be even better for this purpose than the Riteways because the number wheels can be moved, even accidentally. I've done it. All my holders are Riteways. (I have 11 of them, which seems to be plenty enough for me.) They are not supposed to work in Linhof cameras but they do work in my particular Tech III.

I don't do one side at a time though. There are wheels on both sides, and I set them differently, so the sides of my 11 holders are marked 01 through 22.

I also like them because the slides lock in place and can't be accidentally removed. This also means they don't fit in quart ziplocks, but they fit nicely in 6x9 antistatic bags, which are better anyway.

Bob Salomon
5-Jan-2013, 10:21
Linhof Double Sheet Film Holders and the Linhof Glass Plate/Sheet Film Holders were available either numbered from 1-12 or unnumbered. They were numbered by a frisket that the factory installed at the bottom of the holder that put a number on the edge of the film, away from the image area. If you are at all handy it is quite easy to make a cut out in the holder and insert your own frisket.

Linhof holders have been out of production for many years but are not that difficult to find.

Fidelity/Lisco/Riteway were one in the same company and all of them are no longer manufactured.

Bob Salomon
5-Jan-2013, 10:24
\They are not supposed to work in Linhof cameras but they do work in my particular Tech III.

These Riteway holders had an automatic darkslide lock. Modern Linhof cameras would not release the lock. Other then that feature not working in a modern Linhof the holders themselves do work in a Linhof. The III was different then later model Technikas so it is possible that it would release the automatic lock.

Bob Salomon
5-Jan-2013, 10:25
On some used holders I've bought there was a clear tab with a black number on it on each holder/each side. There were like little post it notes. I haven't ever seen anything like that before, kinda of a neat idea.

That was how Linhof numbered their holders. They also put the same number on the darkslide to identify which side of which holder the film was in.

Roger Cole
5-Jan-2013, 10:39
These Riteway holders had an automatic darkslide lock. Modern Linhof cameras would not release the lock. Other then that feature not working in a modern Linhof the holders themselves do work in a Linhof. The III was different then later model Technikas so it is possible that it would release the automatic lock.

Well if it didn't release the darkslide holder I'd feel safe in saying "they don't work" in that camera. How could you use them?

But they do work ok in my Tech III. That's good to know, and I've often suspected it was the later models that didn't work...or release the DS lock if you prefer.

Bob Salomon
5-Jan-2013, 10:53
Well if it didn't release the darkslide holder I'd feel safe in saying "they don't work" in that camera. How could you use them?

But they do work ok in my Tech III. That's good to know, and I've often suspected it was the later models that didn't work...or release the DS lock if you prefer.

Pre-release the lock with a toothpick or other small item that can be taped over the lock.

mandoman7
5-Jan-2013, 10:54
I've been long time user of the notch method, I have a set of small files with round and triangular shapes, giving them values of one and two, and then labeling the holder with the numbers. Even when I forget everything it's still easy later to link a holder with a shot later because of the general position of the markings.

I got some holders where somebody had drilled small holes in the channel along the long wide of the film, and I like that way a little better. It's quicker to do and shows a little better in the film.

With this numbering and a digital recorder I can shoot quickly in changing light conditions, which is the bottom line with note taking IMO.

Roger Cole
5-Jan-2013, 13:09
Pre-release the lock with a toothpick or other small item that can be taped over the lock.

I'd think it would be hard to do that without interfering with the light seal when you put the holder in, but maybe not. Since mine work ok anyway I haven't tried it.

Bob Salomon
5-Jan-2013, 13:21
I'd think it would be hard to do that without interfering with the light seal when you put the holder in, but maybe not. Since mine work ok anyway I haven't tried it.
Since you don't pull the dark slide there would be no light leak. All you are doing is pressing the lock in.

Cletus
5-Jan-2013, 18:20
A great notching system for film holders is covered in detail in Way Beyond Monochrome, at least in the 2nd Edition. I've used this to notch all 24 of my 'active' 4x5 holders to identify which sheet goes to which holder. For 24 holders, you need no more then six notches on any holder. The notches conform to a 4 or 6 bit decimal 'code' and really easy to use and understand. For the actual notching, it's extremely easy to notch the inside of the flap using a little precision, tapered jaw wire cutter instead of a file or G*d forbid, a sharp utility knife. To me, it's worth seeking out and buying this little tool if you never use it for anything else. Notching with this takes seconds to do, the notches are all perfect and there's almost no risk of screwing up your holder this way. Or cutting off your finger.

There are lots of benefits to notching holders beyond identifying future light leaks, although that's most definitely one of them. I often expose several sheets on the same subject using different filters or different exposures and the notches are invaluable. I keep good notes on each sheet I expose, as do most people, but being able to positively identify each individual sheet and correlate it with your notes after processing can be very difficult without some kind of system like this. I learned more about the effects of different filters using this system than I had in all the time before. And if you want to expose, say, one sheet at normal and one at N+ or -2 or something, you can process everything together and still know which was which afterward.

I know this was lots of info and many of you already know the benefits of which I speak. I'm a huge proponent of doing this and I can't recommend Way Beyond Monochrome enough. And the little appendix on notching is just a teeny tiny bit of the invaluable info this worthy tome contains. Good luck!