View Full Version : Super-Symmar XL 80mm haze on glass??

Harley Goldman
13-Apr-2004, 09:26
I have a one year old Super-Symmar XL 80mm lens. It has some haze around the edges on the curved element just under the front glass, maybe an 1/8 inch around the edges. I have cleaned all of the accessible glass, so it is definitely on the inside. Any ideas what it might be? The lens is stored inside a Gnass lens case inside a photo backpack. None of my other lenses show any signs of the hazing.

Scott Atkinson
13-Apr-2004, 17:07
The exact same thing just happened to mine! And I have no idea what it is...I asked Jeff from Badger, where I bought it, if he'd ever heard of such a thing, and he hadn't. But I guess it's going back to Schneider. Please let me know if you find anything out...

Ling Z
14-Apr-2004, 18:02
My 80SSXL has the same problem. It was also bought from Badger about one and half years ago. I'll return it to Schneider for service.

George Ward
24-Apr-2004, 14:04
After using this lens for a few images, I too noticed this haze inside the glass element. It is doubtful that there would be any degradation of image quality, but it would certainly affect the resale value. So I sent it back to Badger right away and received a new lens from Schneider. Having read all the previous posts, I now think that this is probably a problem at the factory.

Leigh Perry
9-May-2006, 07:58
My lens has now also developed this issue. I'm getting some colour banding that occurs only with this lens, and on close inspection, I found the haze. It extends a significant way on the inner element though.

Jeff at Badger is organising for Schneider to repair the lens.

Has the problem recurred for anyone after repair / replacement?

Frank Petronio
9-May-2006, 09:15
Sounds like a trend...

Leigh Perry
11-Jul-2006, 14:40
I got my lens back yesterday, having posted it to Badger / Schneider on 10/May. Well, actually, I didn't get it back. I got a brand new lens.

11-Jul-2006, 14:48
It'd be interesting to see if there's a time correlation with all these lenses that would match a specific batch of raw materials or process used.

And, if the defect IS with the materials/process used... I wonder how many other lenses are out there with similar defects?

Interesting! :)


11-Jul-2006, 16:39
I've got a 110 xl with clouding on inner element , curently with jeff at Badger . A friend in Melbourne had the same recurring problem on his 80mm xl .
My 110 developed the problem after 2 years , the buggers must know theres something amiss .

Leigh Perry
11-Jul-2006, 20:50
It'd be interesting to see if there's a time correlation with all these lenses that would match a specific batch of raw materials or process used.

I bought my troubled 80XL in July 2004.

Andre Noble
11-Jul-2006, 21:11
Large Format lenses are serious investments in terms of quantity of cash outlay. These are supposed to be once in a lifetime investments.

I guess the good thing here is that Schneider and Rodenstock offer lifetime warranties on their lenses.

But still, their high price and numerous problems leave me leary of the entire Schneider line up.

Those heavily vested in Schneider will argue with me that other lens manufacturers have similar probems at the same rate. But this is not what I see according to the number of complaints.

In facts it's because of these complaints alone that I don't want to buy Schneider lenses.

Brian Vuillemenot
11-Jul-2006, 22:09
Could there be trouble in paradise? Perhaps the SS XLs aren't living up to the legends they're cracked out to be...

(for what it's worth, my 110 has been excellent and is so far free of the insidious haze)

Eric Leppanen
11-Jul-2006, 22:18
I vaguely remember something about this, but all I could find was this thread at APUG where a couple posters discuss that "Schneider had a run with some bad cement that made the edges look very cloudy." The poster mentioning this bought his SS80XL new roughly three years ago, and had it replaced by Badger.


Andre Noble
11-Jul-2006, 22:19
"cracked" is the right choice of words here, Brian.:)

12-Jul-2006, 09:20
Could there be trouble in paradise? Perhaps the SS XLs aren't living up to the legends they're cracked out to be...

(for what it's worth, my 110 has been excellent and is so far free of the insidious haze)

They're the only company that's invested all that capital into developing spherical technology for big lenses. In fact, they appear to be the only company investing in any kind of innovation in LF lens design. That seems worth supporting to me.

They've had some issues along the way with things like coating technologies. One of their tech reps told me the initial problems they had with coatings in the early batches of the ss xls was something that they couldn't test for ... it only emerged over time in the field. So they corrected it, and moved on.

The important thing is that they stand behind their warranties. If you do have a problem, they'll take care of it, at great expense to them and none to you. I don't see why this is such a big deal.

Eric James
12-Jul-2006, 14:41
It seems like a lot of these are coming from Badger Graphic. I wonder what the source of their lenses is. I bought a 110mm XL from them about 2 months ago and it arrived with no paper work and did not appear factory fresh - this made me nervous, especially after reading this thread. I sent it back and bought one with a USA Lifetime warranty from BHPV - $200 for a piece of paper seems steep but the lens was factory packaged, had a production date from earlier this year, and two weeks after sending in the application I had my lifetime warranty certificate in the mail - I hope I don't need it.

8-Nov-2006, 14:13
Oh no! I did a search and found this thread!! My 1.5 year old Fujinon 240A has developed a similar haze around part of the outer circumference of the rear element. It is definitely inside the glass somewhere. What on earth is it? I bought this lens from Badger Graphic too. It's not fungus (I know what THAT looks like) and I take precautions to store the lens properly to reduce the likelihood of fungus growth. I am waiting for some 8x10 transparencies to return to see if it affects picture quality. What should I do? I complained to Jeff once about a brand new Kodak Readyload holder giving me problems but he seemed a little reluctant to do anything. I ended up having to live with the holder. Now this. I guess I'll email him soon anyway.

Steve Hamley
8-Nov-2006, 14:59
If it doesn't clean up by removing the cell and wiping the inner surface of the glass, you can remove the glass retaining ring with the appropriate spanner and clean the internal surfaces.

Or, you can always send it to S.K. Grimes to have the glass removed and cleaned. He usually charges $100, but maybe less for only one cell. Be prepared to wait.


8-Nov-2006, 15:30
Thank you, Steve. I'll try removing the cell first (I believe I have a spanner that'll work). You guys are great!!!

Kevin Crisp
8-Nov-2006, 15:48
Rory: You should not need a spanner to remove the rear cell. It should just unscrew by hand. Hopefully the ring of haze (this happens with some lenses and not others, but with lenses from the major manufacturers) is on the inside (exposed inner surface, I mean) of the rear element where you can easily get to it. If it is on the inside, then you would need to undo the retaining ring on the outside of the rear element and carefully take the lens apart to clean inside surfaces. I've done this many times, using the superb S.K. Grimes wrench with the flat tips. Make note of which surface goes which way and the exact orientation of spacers, since they sometimes have a radius or ridge and go in only one way correctly. Sometimes the retaining rings are just on too tight and you can't get them off with a wrench. You have to adjust the wrench so it is just right, get it down in the slots, and turn carefully and if stuck stop turning before you strip out the slots. If this all sounds like too much for you, I am sure a repair person can handle this quickly and easily for you. It is remarkable how much haze there can be around the outside of an element and have it make no discernable difference on the negative. But it bothers me too. Good luck.

8-Nov-2006, 15:56
Thanks Kevin. Priceless advice. I have just ordered a spanner wrench (I thought I may have had one, but I was wrong), and I will give it a go myself.

Bruce Watson
8-Nov-2006, 16:05
I feel left out. I've got both the 80mm and the 110mm SS-XLs and neither of them have this or any other problems. The 80mm is even sharp wide open.

It's about time I got lucky on something!

8-Nov-2006, 16:23
I have the same issue on mine, purchased July 2005, from B&H.

Harley Goldman
8-Nov-2006, 16:30
I have sent back two already. Per Jeff at Badger, it had something to do with a new type of glass Schneider was using. Supposedly, they recently switched to a new glass. I had to wait for my third one until the new ones were available. At least that is what I was told. If you are having this issue, it should be sent back for replacement with a new one.

8-Nov-2006, 16:34
I'm going to contact B&H or Schneider about this lens and see what is up.

8-Nov-2006, 16:36
Out of curiosity... does anyone have a clear picture of this problem that they can post?

I have a touch of something or another in my 355 G-Claron and sent a note off to Schneider about rectifying it. The lens was purchased from one of the honorable members (Jeremey Moore) here on the forum. Anyway, the response back from Schneider was that the "haze" would not affect the picture quality in the least. However, it will certainly affect the re-sale value. In order to clean the lens... the cost is US$150 per cell.

Lastly, Jeff has informed me that the "issues involving the lenses" and Badger Graphics are not related in any way, shape, or form. The issue relates to a bad batch of cement that Schneider used. And, any problems are being rectified through Schneider.


8-Nov-2006, 17:23
Fujinon and Schneider must be sharing cement. :confused:

I listed my options to Jeff (which included one with me taking the lens apart myself), so I'll hear what he has to say. I'm hoping he'll say "Don't touch!! Send it back!!" :)

Eric James
8-Nov-2006, 23:40

Having been informed by other forum members that this problem had been fixed, I had considered buying one of these from BHPV. They had been out of stock for a few weeks so I contacted Schneider USA and rcvd a prompt email reply relating that supplies were forthcoming. Sure enough - a week later the item was in stock at B&H, but the price jumped $400!!! That is one spendy fix!

Rectified? More like rectum-fied!

I'll shoot with my 90mm.

9-Nov-2006, 10:57

Friends bought a new 80mm XL sometime ago. It also developed this problem. Schneider 'repaired' it, meaning: same shutter, new cells.

$400 price jump sounds almost like.......


Harley Goldman
9-Nov-2006, 16:40
I was originally told by Jeff it was bad cement, then later was told it had something to do with the type of glass they were using. I waited for months for my current lens and was told they were making sure the new glass was fully tested, etc. I called Jeff every couple of weeks until it came in. Is it back to the bad cement story?

9-Nov-2006, 18:33
I emailed Jeff. He said to hang on to the lens for now until he contacted Fuji to determine the course of action. I don't know, it sure looks like something has condensed onto the glass.

Eric James
10-Nov-2006, 00:40
I emailed Jeff. He said to hang on to the lens for now until he contacted Fuji to determine the course of action. I don't know, it sure looks like something has condensed onto the glass.

Well maybe Fuji can sort it out:)Schneider seems to be struggling with it:(

David Lindquist
10-Nov-2006, 14:03
I just took a good look at my 110XL purchased new July 1998. Don't see anything suggestive of the problem described, lens looks fine (much to my relief). As does, for that matter, a 58mm SA XL purchased new in Oct 2000. OTOH a Rodenstock 55mm APO Grandagon I had, had what looked like element separation and produced an unusable image. I had bought that used, possibly it had been abused some way, but had no external signs of damage.

10-Nov-2006, 15:49
Jeff just emailed instructing me to send it (Fujinon A) back.

Brian K
6-Nov-2012, 11:41
Just discovered that my 5 year old 80mm Symmar XL has fungus. Can't understand how this can happen when the lens is stored with 40 other lenses, in a climate controlled room, in a safe with a built in de-humidifier and none of the other lenses, all of which are older, don't have the problem.

I'll never buy another Schneider lens again.