Taos Pueblo

[Jim Andrada]

We'll be in Santa Fe for a couple of days this week and my wife wants to go to Taos. (At least she did before finding out the temperature)

I noticed that they have a photography tax at the Pueblo so just wondering if it's worth it to take anything more than my iPhone. I'll have my Super Graphic and Mamiya RB67 with me - just looking for thoughts/opinions/random thoughts on whether it's worth the $12 to take them to the Pueblo.

[Kirk Gittings]

Everything accesible has been photographed 10 million times. Having said that I have a couple of keepers from maybe 6 visits-some with more access though as I did a tourist brochure for the Pueblo.

[Jim Andrada]

Aside from the Pueblo itself any thoughts on the Taos area?

[Kirk Gittings]

What are you interested in?

[Robert Hall]

I thought it interesting but the moment you put up a tripod those in charge start to freak out. They followed us around with wringing hands the entire time we were there. Somehow the guy with the 30k in digital gear didn't seem to phase them.

I would give it a pass, or just take your phone in then if you see something you like, go pay the tax and pick up your tripod as you go back in.

[photobymike]

Jim....Let me get this.... you have to pay someone to take pictures? A tax?

[Robert Hall]

Yes.

[photobymike]

Oh thats just wrong.... i dont care if it is a really cool place i will not be paying anybody to take pictures.... sucks big time

[DJG]

From their webpage:
Camera Fees (includes cell phone / video):
$6 per camera
Professional and Commercial Photographers; fees vary.

I'm not sure how they define the latter.... I'd imagine they'd freak out if they say any LF gear, even if you're strictly a hobbyist.

[Robert Hall]

Definite yes on the LF gear.

[Robert Hall]

The mission just south before you come in to town is far better. I had lot's of keepers there.

85724

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

... you have to pay someone to take pictures? A tax?

A tripod or camera fee is pretty standard for many places of historical or cultural interest, museums or archaeological sites. It seems reasonable to me that the Pueblo would or could charge.

[Mark Sampson]

It's their country. I was there in May, paid the fee, left the 4x5 in the car, got some nice snapshots w/the hand camera. The Pueblo has restrictions on commercial use of the photos too. Plenty else to photograph around Taos.

[Dan Henderson]

Is there not also a fee for photographing certain places in Paris? Or am I misinformed, or just confused.

I guess that the Taos Pueblo is privately owned, and therefore the owner can do what they like with their site.

[Robert Hall]

I've yet to be asked for money in Paris to photograph. :)

[David Lobato]

Taos Pueblo is within the sovereign land of the local Native American nation. It's their rules, and outsiders must respect the tribe's laws. Most NA lands have restrictions on photography and video. Count yourself lucky if photography is permissible at all. I was researching Laguna Pueblo this week and no photography is allowed there. But as some have remarked, there are plenty of other places to photograph.

[goamules]

The New Mexico pueblos rank among the longest continuously occupied towns in North America. They are one of the very, very few tribes that were left alone, mostly, when the Europeans came. When Colombus came in 1492 these pueblos had been there for centuries. Once, they did get fed up with the white interlopers, so they had a revolt and kicked them out of Northern NM for several years. That was in 1680.

As such, they are treasures and the people that live there (calling them "...the owners..." as above is just wrong) should do whatever it takes to make an income. Most live in abject poverty, except for artists, potters, weavers. A small fee of less than $20 is nothing to balk at. I paid more than that to get into sights in Europe, just to walk in. And photography was not allowed in some.

[Kirk Gittings]

Taos Pueblo is within the sovereign land of the local Native American nation. It's their rules, and outsiders must respect the tribe's laws. Most NA lands have restrictions on photography and video. Count yourself lucky if photography is permissible at all. I was researching Laguna Pueblo this week and no photography is allowed there. But as some have remarked, there are plenty of other places to photograph.

Exactly. I have been fortunate to photograph on many of the Pueblos having been given special permission as I was working for the Pueblo. In some cases I have had to give them total rights even giving up my use even of the image.. That is something I am never happy about but it was stated clearly up front and non-negotiable. Its their property. These are not state or national parks. In those cases either the money was too good to pass up or more often I valued the experience more than finances or keeper images.

[photobymike]

This country is big very big with plenty of other places to photograph. I am not paying nor giving rights to any of my work to anybody. It is a matter of principal and freedom for me.

[goamules]

This country is big very big with plenty of other places to photograph... It is a matter of principal and freedom for me.

I'm sure the Indians feel the same way.

[Peter York]

Oddly enough, Taos is one of the more liberal pueblos when it comes to photography, even though it is one of the most conservative pueblos concerning tradition. Given their experience with forced Spanish/Mexican/American culture, and the necessity of taking their traditional religion underground, I think they are quite accomodating. They are "sovereign," after all.

The mechanics are simple. Pay the fee, follow the rules, ask before photographing anyone (and pay them a fee if they ask), and enjoy.

[Greg Y]

I thought about it and made those decisions while in the SW last May. Heck you can barely get a beer or a good coffee for $5. Try to get into the Louvre or the Georgia OKeefe museum in SF for that. I left my 5x7 in the car and photographed with my Rolleiflex. I got lots of keepers, & bought some silver jewelry for my daughter. In retrospect Im glad I did not miss the opportunity to see the Pueblo...just because I had read some negative reviews. The photographs I made were an extra gift.

[goamules]

I agree. Paying $12 to take these special photos makes it a Win-Win situation. A few years ago some friends and I rode our own mules/horses and camped in Canyon de Chelly. You "have to" hire an Indian guide to do either. Know what? We had a great time, learned a lot from our guide, and just appreciated that they let us into their canyon. I only wish I'd taken a LF camera, but I did some snaps of a girl that sold us jewelry and White House ruin (very famous in early photos):

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/56/129802383_c57571ae55_o.jpg

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/47/130580583_c7d7e92ffa_o.jpg

[rdenney]

Don't forget the high road from Santa Fe to Taos, which is Route 76, 75, and 518. That will take you by Chimayo, Truchas, Las Trampas, and other small peublos each with their mission churches of the same vintage as the chapel at Ranchos de Taos. And these have nearly as much photographic provenance, though, as Newhall said, the hind quarters of the church at Ranchos de Taos is "photographic motif Number One" for New Mexico.

All of them have been photographed a million times. But none by you.

Rick "who values his own mediocre photographs more than someone else's good one, because of the experience that accompanies it" Denney

[rdenney]

I agree. Paying $12 to take these special photos makes it a Win-Win situation. A few years ago some friends and I rode and camped in Canyon de Chelly. You "have to" hire an Indian guide to do either. Know what? We had a great time, learned a lot from our guide, and just appreciated that they let us into their canyon. I only wish I'd taken a LF camera, but I did some snaps of a girl that sold us jewelry and White House ruin (very famous in early photos):


Normally the guide at Canyon de Chelly will warn you not to make photographs of the people in the canyon bottoms. He will say that these folks are working, and don't appreciate having pictures made of them when they are not at their best. I would honor that request, though I'm sure permission can be sought and granted (perhaps for a small fee).

You can also walk down to the White House Ruin from the rim without a guide, though it's a steep trail of about 700 feet elevation change. It's a good half-day hike, which leaves plenty of time to wander around the ruin and make photographs. The Navajo don't seem to mind if people photoraph Anasazi ruins, which they do not see as belonging to their own ancestors. (Navajo are Athabascans who migrated to the area mostly after the Anasazi ruins were abandoned by the ancestors of the current peublo tribes.)

Rick "been there several times" Denney

[goamules]

Rick, that's all good information. We asked and were granted permission.

Garrett "who lives here and who's wife works with Pueblo and 4 corners indians"

[al olson]

For any who happen to be in the area I would recommend the Christmas ceremony at the Taos Pueblo. I was invited to Taos seven years ago by an old friend (55 years). We attended the ceremony at the mission in honor of the Virgin Mary. IIRC it was at night on Christmas Eve. There are numerous pyres of stacked wood, several as high as a two story building that are ignited as part of the ceremony. A replica of the virgin is carried around the premises in what looks like a sedan chair with guards firing shotguns into the air. In no time the pall of the smoke becomes uncomfortable.

The public is allowed into the pueblo, but not into the mission church, for this ceremony and it has become a big local event. It is true that you must get a photo pass to bring cameras into the pueblo, although they didn't call it a tax. My friend knows some of the tribal elders and he claims that he could get me a personal tour to make photos, but I did not take any cameras in that night. I did, however, note that there were a number of cameras on tripods with one large video camera that I presumed might belong to a TV station. This was an interesting event and I would recommend it to anyone who happens to be in the Taos area.

[Kuzano]

Not to steal the thread from Taos Pueblos, when I was traveling that part of the country, I ended up spending more productive time about 2 hours SW of Taos, one hour out of Santa Fe at the Bandelier National Monument. Not nearly the restrictions, although more of a mixed site beyond just pueblos. I was left to my own devices on the trail in the canyon and ruins. Not sure if that is the case now, and surely a different venue overall than the Pueblos.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandelier_National_Monument

unfortunately, much of Bandelier was shut down by forest fires in 2011, but is opening up, and is somewhat more accessible in 2012.

Check current access before visiting, but I recall it as a considerably impressive area for cave dwellings, some pueblo, Kivas and history.