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View Full Version : Thornton Pickard shutters - how much vibration?



antonroland
17-Dec-2012, 11:01
Hello Everyone

I am just curious to hear from anyone with any personal experience of these shutters...it seems like a rather large bit of mechanics sitting on the front of the lens.

Exactly how much shake will this little guy cause and which shutter speeds are good or bad?

Cheers everyone:)

IanG
17-Dec-2012, 11:37
They are rather rare in the US and few here seem to use them. I'd suggest asking on the UK LF forum but I think it's almost dead, no new posts for about 10 days except the sales section.

In terms of vibration they are better than a Graflex shutter and no worse than a British LF reflex camera shutter, best speed 1/90th or T and a second or two. In the UK they were standard on almost all LF cameras for about 25 years until the first reliable integral lens/shutters took over, but they were made up until about 1960, years after the TP company had ceased trading by an ex employee who serviced and made new shutters. until I guess he retired.

Ian

Jody_S
17-Dec-2012, 12:31
I've used one, it's comparable in size and shutter vibration to a low-quality SLR (35mm). Or something like a Pentacon 6. Much less vibration than a Kiev 6 or 60, or a Pentax 67 (the vibration on SLRs, whether 35mm, mf or lf, seems due more to mirror slap than the force created on the camera frame by the sudden movement of the curtains).

sanking
17-Dec-2012, 12:47
I've used one, it's comparable in size and shutter vibration to a low-quality SLR (35mm). Or something like a Pentacon 6. Much less vibration than a Kiev 6 or 60, or a Pentax 67 (the vibration on SLRs, whether 35mm, mf or lf, seems due more to mirror slap than the force created on the camera frame by the sudden movement of the curtains).

I have one of these that I would be interested in selling, though I would have to do some research to have any idea about current value. The one I have is on a lens board that goes with a 5X7 Thornton Picard. The board itself is in very good condition except there is a chip on the corner of the board that has been glued back. The shutter is called a Time & Instant and is VG+ - Ex condition cosmetically, and in full working condition. There is a 6 1/2 X 8 1/2" Ross Rapid Symmetrical lens mounted to the shutter, with an aperture ring. The brass and glass is in VG+ - Ex condition.

If anyone is seriously interested in purchasing the shutter and lens please contact me by pm.

Sandy

Steven Tribe
17-Dec-2012, 13:34
I can tell you tomorrow, as I am collecting one with a largish Voigtländer "Cooke -H.D.Taylor Patent" attached, and will play with it tomorrow afternoon!

This is the front mount type - not the "instead of a proper lens board" type.

IanG
17-Dec-2012, 14:50
The front mount type is the original, however these are often in poor condition after being used between the lens & lens board as the panels front/rear are thin and not designed for this use.

I'm not quite sure how many I have of either type, but a wide variety of sizes, over 15 though plus a few others similar of different makes. I've usually always got some in the process of restoration.

Often I restore or sell on shutters I've restored to wet plate workers who want a shutter to use with their barrel lenses for non wet plate work and ironically that's what Thornton did when he set first set up Thornton Pickard, most of his early shutters were bought to adapt old shutter-less lenses/cameras to use the faster plates of the late 1880's onwards.

Vibration and shake can be worse with more modern tripods, the old wooden tripods were far better at dampening any effects, this is still true with modern 120mm SLRs when the mirror locks isn't used.

Ian

Tim Meisburger
17-Dec-2012, 16:59
I have a couple of Japanese front mount roller blind shutters that look like copies of the Thorton Pickard. One is in good shape, but the other could use a rebuild, as the curtain has deteriorted and it only has one speed (1/20) whatever the setting. I may, some day, pull this apart and try to fix it, if I can find a source for curtain material.

Regarding vibration, they seem to work fairly well on a big camera.

IanG
18-Dec-2012, 01:38
Tim, PM me when you need curtain material.

Ian

Steven Tribe
18-Dec-2012, 07:19
I threatened to post experiments with a T-P front mounted to-day. This turned out to be a continental variant where an expanding air bellows release triggers the action. Like all real rubber from the 1890's, this has solidified. However there was a replacement Zettor front mounted mechanical shutter which didn't produce any vibration.

antonroland
19-Dec-2012, 04:23
Thanks for all the responses everyone.

I have yet to send by broken shutter to IanG for a repair, hoping to do it next week during a bit of a break.

As soon as it is received back I should have all the other issues sorted and be ready to start burning some serious shots.

Will report the results either way.

Tim Meisburger
19-Dec-2012, 04:38
Thanks Ian. I'll do that; perhaps sometime in the spring.

mathewhaden12
1-Apr-2013, 04:04
i had used this shutter , but i have never faced this kind of problem, The Thornton Pickard Roller Blind Shutter is one of the earliest examples of what is now referred to as the focal plane shutter.There were even Japanese made versions with steel casings instead of the usual mahogany.


Locksmith Thornton (http://www.PerfectThorntonLocksmith.com)

pierre506
1-Apr-2013, 06:39
92416
pickard + haydens + deardorff

I love the shutter (bear about 11cm)'cause it can be put on lots of big (not huge)petzval lenses.

coisasdavida
1-Apr-2013, 06:44
I have three metal ones. Sold by S&K maybe, none of the ones I have has even a sticker. They have B and 1/15 thru 1/90, not consistent, but very usable (I think) and never gave me sharpness issues.

IanG
1-Apr-2013, 07:20
Burke & James wer the US distributors for some reason they went for the metal bodied versions in preferance, they are less common in the UK. Kodak sold then in the UK through their Proffessional outlets.

Ian