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ScottPhotoCo
12-Dec-2012, 17:06
I have purchased a couple of Goerz lenses in barrel for large format work and I'd love your thoughts and experiences with either or both as I decide how to use each.

Here are the details:

1. C.P. Goerz AM. OPT CO. Apochromat Artar 16 12" F:9.5 No. 762431. It also has USBPA #78803 hand engraved on the barrel.
2. C.P. Goerz AM. OPT CO. Apochromat (red dot) Artar 19" F:11 No. 784485.

Both lenses are in pristine condition and currently unmounted.

The cameras that I'm thinking for these lenses are a)10x12 Carlton (primarily for shooting 10x12 x-ray film for landscapes and portrait work in rare circumstances) b)8x10 Deardorff V8 (this will be the primary shooter for me for portrait work along with my 4x5 Special) and my c)4x5 Deardorff Special (on which I shoot both 4x5 and 5x7 for portraits and landscapes as well).

For both the 8x10, and 4x5 I plan on shooting (in addition to film) Harman Direct Positive Paper, x-ray film as well as wet-plate processes. I already have the following lenses in shutter to work with:
1. Kodak Commercial Ektar 8 1/2"
2. Kodak Commercial Ektar 10"
3. Kodak Commercial Ektar 12"
4. Rodenstock Geronar 210mm 6.8
5. Fujinon W 150mm 5.6

So, here is what I am exploring and what I would love your thoughts and ideas on:
1. What are the strengths and weaknesses of the two Goerz lenses?
2. Are they worth investing in shutters/mounting for long term use?
3. How do they compare to the other lenses I own?
4. Any other general thoughts?

I will mount/have mounted all of these lenses on the 4x4 deardorff boards as I have a 6x6>4x4 mount coming in the mail.

I know that I can experiment to my heart's content with these and that there are a lot of variables but I'd love to start the process with some theories in mind to test based on the previous experiences of anyone else here. General thinking out loud is also welcomed. :)

Thanks in advance!

Dan Fromm
12-Dec-2012, 18:15
See http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/goerz_3.html for Goerz' own coverage claims for Apo-Artars. Divide the coverage at 1:1 by 2.0 to get coverage at infinity. Y'r 16.5 incher will just cover 8x10 with no movements, per the catalog. I'm sure that some folks here will say that it covers more.

Go here http://www.skgrimes.com/lens-mounting/table-of-lenses-fitted-to-shutters to see which shutters they've been mounted in. They're both good lenses, if in good condition, but look closely into the costs of having them put in shutter. Buying Artars of those focal lengths already in shutter may cost less. No one but you can determine how much money is too much for your budget.

No process lenses are good investments. Prices have been falling. If you decide to look for process lenses in shutter, don't limit yourself to Apo Artars, also look for Apo Ronars. I'd suggest Apo Nikkors in shutter but they're much less common.

How do they compare to your other lenses? Well, they're longer and have smaller maximum apertures. What else matters? Subject to condition, they're better than good enough and so are your other lenses.

The 8.5 inch Commercial Ektar will cover 5x7, not 8x10. Likewise the 210/6.8 Geronar. If both are in good order and in shutters that run well, I'd prefer the CE. There's no reason to have both. Go here http://www.bnphoto.org/bnphoto/KodakEktarsDB-Index.htm for more info on your CEs. As I read the data, only the 12 incher is recommended for 8x10. The Fuji should cover 5x7, not 8x10.

John Kasaian
12-Dec-2012, 19:01
IMHO, my 19" RD Artar is a real treasure. It's a great landscape lens for an 8x10 Deardorff. Non red Dot APO Artars are a real pleasure to use too.

Daniel Stone
12-Dec-2012, 19:56
I love my 19" and 24" RD Artar lenses. Buttery smooth tonally compared to some more modern optics I've used in the past(Nikkor's, Fuji's primarily), but still have a nice bite. Not too much, but just enough. I use both color and b/w film, 8x10 is my largest format.

The other advantage I've found to using older lenses is that most of them either factory or re-mounted are in older shutters. Most of those older shutters have MORE aperture blades, so you get a rounder aperture opening. One lens I owned previously(360/620 symmar convertible) was mounted in a #4 Compound shutter. An absolutely beautiful device, and the aperture was essentially PERFECTLY round. Beautiful out-of-focus rendering, much smoother than other shutters that have less blades.

Dan Fromm has alerted that process lenses are falling in price. That is true. But if you're planning to use them long-term, buy the best you can afford, or ones that will produce results you admire and make you want to get out and shoot.

Dan

ScottPhotoCo
12-Dec-2012, 22:04
Thank you all for the interesting comments. So much to learn!

Here's another question for you. How do you know what degree of coverage is required for each format size? Is there a chart somewhere to reference?


Tim
www.ScottPhoto.co

Dan Fromm
13-Dec-2012, 07:38
Thank you all for the interesting comments. So much to learn!

Here's another question for you. How do you know what degree of coverage is required for each format size? Is there a chart somewhere to reference?


Tim
www.ScottPhoto.co

Read the FAQs. The answer is in there somewhere. Looking for it will probably do you good. You might learn something.

In Excel the magic formula is =2*DEGREES(ATAN((format's diagonal/2)/focal length))

If what you meant is how big the circle covered has to be to cover a format, use Pythagoras' theorem (you were exposed to geometry in high school, weren't you?) to calculate the format of interest's diagonal. And remember that in general film holders' gates are smaller than their nominal formats. For example, 6x9 is a lousy metric approximation to 2.25" x 3.25"; that format's actual size is approximately 56 x 81 mm, calculate the diagonal. Another absurdity is 6x12; most 6x12 holders' gates are 56 x 112 mm).