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View Full Version : Toyo 45A vs. Chamonix 045n-2



claus
9-Dec-2012, 08:21
This is my first post here so... hello there!
I'm a brazilian photographer but I'm living in Paris nowadays. Now, let's talk about what matters.

My style is documentary photography and while studying the work of such photographers as Rob Hornstra, Alec Soth, Joel Sternfeld and Richard Misrach, I'm thinking in moving from MF to 4x5 format. After doing some research, I have the opportunity to get one of these two cameras:

1) Used Toyo 45A + Schneider Symmar-s 150 (multi coated) + Holders and a loupe. I would pay 890 USD for it.

2) New Chamonix 045n-2, body only. 980 USD

I'm wondering if it better to invest in the used metal camera kit or buy a new wood camera and get the lens later. And I'd love to hear some thoughts about these two cameras for this photography style.

Thank you in advance!

Dvenosa
9-Dec-2012, 08:48
My Toyo 45A is a joy to use...

BTW sou brasileiro tb

sully75
9-Dec-2012, 09:14
I'd go Chamonix. Very happy with mine. I'm sure you'll be good with either one.

A monorail like a Toyo is going to be much cheaper and in a lot of ways easier to use. But it's a bear to carry around.

David Lobato
9-Dec-2012, 09:45
I've had my Toyo 45A since 1988. It's a folding field camera, not a monorail like the 45E I once had. I have always loved using the 45A. It's easy to use intuitively under the dark cloth and very fast to setup, which may help in your work. One reason I will always keep it is because I get very sharp transparencies and b&w negatives (all that metal has advantages for stiffness). And it's rugged in frequent handling and transport. Plus it's part of the large Toyo system so accessories and spare parts are widely available.

I handled a Chamonix 45N recently and it was nice, but very different from my Toyo. I passed on the great deal the seller was offering for it. It would have taken me some time to get proficient with the movements on a Chamonix but it is a well made camera.

Joseph Dickerson
9-Dec-2012, 09:54
I don't currently own either, but have used both and either would work fine for your purposes.

Chamonix is lighter, has more movements, and will handle short and long focal lengths better than the Toyo 45A. The 45A is a tank, nearly indestructible, but for me at least, the Chamonix would be worth the extra shekels.

You could also look for a used Chamonix 045-n1. As folks move to the newer model they'll start to show up from time to time.

JD

Preston
9-Dec-2012, 10:06
I have a Chamonix 045N-2 and really like it. It is certainly worth the money--very well built, and to my mind, easy to use. If you decide on the Chamonix there's two things I'll note.

1. If you plan to use lenses longer than a 300mm (like a 450), you'll want to purchace the extension board, too.
2. There is rumored to be a new version coming out. Here's a link to the thread here at LFPF about it. New-Chamonix-in-3-months-ish (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?97247-New-Chamonix-in-3-months-ish)

I believe you'll be happy with either camera.

--P

vinny
9-Dec-2012, 10:53
45n-2,here's (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?97727-FS-chamonix-045n-2-with-fuji-135mm-f5-6) one on the forum.

Dave Hally
9-Dec-2012, 13:03
I have both cameras, and I have't used the Toyo since I got the Chamonix. The Chammy has a lot longer bellows draw, which I like, and is a lot lighter. I think the price that you quoted for the Toyo is a little high, unless everything is absolutely pristine. For instance, I am thinking about selling mine for about 600, including a 180 symar s. Granted mine is well used, but has a fairly new bellows and is perfectly functional.
Both cameras are well built, and are a precise as you will need.
I did find that the base of the front standard of the Toyo is a little fragile, and will break if the camera fall over forward. Replacement parts are available. I also had the cover "glass" (acrylic) of the fresnel on the Chamonix break away at the four mounting points where it is clamped, I replaced mine with Lexan.
So, the Chammy will do anything that the Toyo can do, and it will handle longer lenses, such as a 300mm or more.
Good luck,
Dave Hally
.

Darin Boville
9-Dec-2012, 13:23
If your own documentary style is similar to the photographers you name you'll be fine with either camera. I've had both and like both. The Toyo is nearly a perfect field camera, I think. It's only flaw is that it is a bit heavy (of course, since it is metal and therefore difficult to damage). It's my favorite field camera, even more so than the Linhof. The Chamonix is close behind. Well-designed and light weight. It's only flaw in my mind (which others don't mind at all) is the system that often requires you to remount the front standard when changing lenses. I hate that! I'd be willing to add a few ounces to remove that feature :)


The Toyo could be used handheld though, as I said, it is heavy. The Chamonix as it comes would be difficult to use handheld, though I'm sure you could rig up some sort of strap or handle to make it more manageable.

--Darin

claus
9-Dec-2012, 14:13
Thank you all for the very insightful comments.
It's kind of a relief that I can't go wrong with either camera.

I'll tell you all the final decision once I made it.

Ed Bray
9-Dec-2012, 14:36
Chamonix 045n-2 looks very good value at $900 new (plus shipping)

claus
9-Dec-2012, 14:41
Chamonix 045n-2 looks very good value at $900 new (plus shipping)

Thanks! I saw that ad.
I'll check the Toyo kit next week (the guy selling it live here in Paris). If the kit is all good I'll probably get it since I'll save some money.

polyglot
9-Dec-2012, 18:02
As stated, they're both excellent options and a Toyo might be better value (though heavier/more rugged). But the Toyo you list seems a bit expensive - they're more often around $600 in excellent user-condition.

claus
9-Dec-2012, 18:14
As stated, they're both excellent options and a Toyo might be better value (though heavier/more rugged). But the Toyo you list seems a bit expensive - they're more often around $600 in excellent user-condition.

Do you think it's expensive even with the lens and accessories?

claus
9-Dec-2012, 20:05
I have both cameras, and I have't used the Toyo since I got the Chamonix. The Chammy has a lot longer bellows draw, which I like, and is a lot lighter. I think the price that you quoted for the Toyo is a little high, unless everything is absolutely pristine. For instance, I am thinking about selling mine for about 600, including a 180 symar s. Granted mine is well used, but has a fairly new bellows and is perfectly functional.
Both cameras are well built, and are a precise as you will need.
I did find that the base of the front standard of the Toyo is a little fragile, and will break if the camera fall over forward. Replacement parts are available. I also had the cover "glass" (acrylic) of the fresnel on the Chamonix break away at the four mounting points where it is clamped, I replaced mine with Lexan.
So, the Chammy will do anything that the Toyo can do, and it will handle longer lenses, such as a 300mm or more.
Good luck,
Dave Hally
.

Thanks for the insight, Dave!
Let me know if you decide to sell your Toyo!

polyglot
9-Dec-2012, 20:13
Typical price breakdown:
45A: $600 at most (I've seen good ones go for $350-450 on eBay)
150/5.6: $150 to $200 (it's not an APO)
loupe: $30 if it's an excellent name-brand (Schneider/Rodenstock) 6x
holders: $7 to $10 each.

So it's about the right price if the camera, lens & shutter are in excellent condition, there are at least 5 holders and you have warranty/right-of-return. You're paying KEH prices, which are about right but include warranty service from a reliable vendor; I would expect to pay a little less with a private seller. Maybe prices are higher in Paris?


(I use a 45A, personally)

claus
9-Dec-2012, 20:17
Typical price breakdown:
45A: $600 at most (I've seen good ones go for $350-450 on eBay)
150/5.6: $150 to $200 (it's not an APO)
loupe: $30 if it's an excellent name-brand (Schneider/Rodenstock) 6x
holders: $7 to $10 each.

So it's about the right price if the camera, lens & shutter are in excellent condition, there are at least 5 holders and you have warranty/right-of-return. You're paying KEH prices, which are about right but include warranty service from a reliable vendor; I would expect to pay a little less with a private seller. Maybe prices are higher in Paris?


(I use a 45A, personally)

Everything is more expensive in Paris. :)
Thanks for these infos. I did look at KEH, but I really hope to buy a camere here in Europe.

timparkin
12-Dec-2012, 11:18
I have used both and would choose the Chamonix for weight, axis front tilt (a LOT easier than base front tilt), lens accommodation and in my personal opinion, the fresnel is nicer on the Chamonix.

BradS
13-Dec-2012, 21:37
Good grief....the Toyo outfit you describe would be a much better choice. Especially considering that this would be your first LF camera. Waste no more time thinking about the matter...go buy the Toyo kit and get busy with large format.

C. D. Keth
13-Dec-2012, 23:21
Either one would be fine. Since it's your first and the toyo is a complete package for quite good value, I'd get that. You could quite happily go forever with just that body and lens and make thousands of good pictures.

soeren
14-Dec-2012, 00:15
Good grief....the Toyo outfit you describe would be a much better choice. Especially considering that this would be your first LF camera. Waste no more time thinking about the matter...go buy the Toyo kit and get busy with large format.

Wauv thats some statement, would you like to elaborate as to why the Toyo is so much better. Any detailed pro/cons? I am asking beccause I'm thinking 4X5" field camera too and figured the Chamonix would be a great buy but if ...........
Best regards

Helcio J Tagliolatto
14-Dec-2012, 04:36
Claus,
for a lifetime investment stay with the Toyo. I use both AII and the CF (the CF for backpacking).
But the Chamonix has some advantages, as mentioned herein.

Hélcio

Gary Tarbert
14-Dec-2012, 06:28
Hi ,I have a Chamonix 4x5 love It!! , Although have never shot with the Toyo , Depends what your bottom line budget is, but the lens and holders etc plus maybe some negotiation factor may make the Toyo a good buy for your first kit , Good luck with whatever you choose. Regards gary

Peter De Smidt
14-Dec-2012, 07:49
I've owned both, and I prefer the Toyo. Toyo field cameras are rugged, fold into a box, stable, and quick to use, with each of the qualities being a little better than the Chamonix. The Chamonix is lighter. Both are very nice 4x5 choices.