Tri-X 320 loss of sensitivity

[Domingo A. Siliceo]

My apologies if this is not the right section for the question.

I have buyed from an old photographer who retires a lot of expired film; among it, a box of Tri-X 320 expired in 1997. Inside the box are 4 bags, each of it (I suppose) with 25 sheets. 3 bags are still closed and one is open.

Obviously film has not the nominal sensitivity, so I have made a couple of shots at ISO 100, but film is still underexposed: I'll try at ISO 50 and see what happens.

My question is: sensitivity apart, does the expired film loses something more? If I can expose it correctly at, say, ISO 50, will the images worth the pain?

[Vaughn]

What shutter speed did you use to test the film at ISO 100?

[Sevo]

I am rather surprised that the film should have lost that much sensitivity. Sure that there is nothing wrong with your developer? And (as a growing number of photographers have no past experience with film) do you actually know how over- and underexposure of a negative look - not that you mix these up?

People have developed Tri-X decades after exposure with little loss of the latent image (which is generally far more likely than a sensitivity loss). And I have never observed any sensitivity loss in my Plus-X and Tri-X and only little increase in base fog, even though some was quite as expired as yours. But then, mine has always been stored originally packed in a fridge or at least cellar, never subjected to more than around 16°C - in heat, or in a open bag exposed to environmental pollution, other things might happen.

If yours should really have lost a full four stops or more, I fear it will be no good any more (except maybe for camera focus tests) - there will be other things (like spectral sensitivity and contrast) that are as much out of order as the speed. But even if the open bag is useless, the closed ones might still be good - try again with one of these before you dump all of it.

[Corran]

Somebody gave me some early 90s Tri-X 320 a few months ago. I shot it at 200, expecting nothing, but it turned out beautifully. Something else is going on there.

[Domingo A. Siliceo]

What shutter speed did you use to test the film at ISO 100?

f/16, if I remember correctly. Does it matter?


I am rather surprised that the film should have lost that much sensitivity. Sure that there is nothing wrong with your developer?
[...]


I developed with D76 diluted 1+3, 21 minutes 20C/68F. The developer has a couple of weeks, and diluted specifically for these sheets. I know I should try a more standard dilution (say 1+1) but due to the high contrast of the zone where I live, I'd like to have the right time for a 1+3 dilution; in fact, I develop Delta 400 with D76 diluted 1+3 with, IMHO, very good results.

[Daniel Stone]

Just to rule this out:

DID YOU LOAD YOUR HOLDERS CORRECTLTY?

Watch this below, and make sure to load your holders in the same way(of course in the dark ;), pay attention to the NOTCH POSITION, this will ensure that you have loaded the holder w/ the film facing the lens, not backwards)

I have a feeling this is your issue.

Cheers,

Dan


http://youtu.be/WcjgKjEQDT4

[Sevo]

I know I should try a more standard dilution

Well, for a first film test going with the factory specified processing does help - it is the best way to rule out that the film is flawed. Still, your figures sound right, and if you had the stock about for a couple of weeks, it should still be good. But if you used 1+3 that had been mixed weeks ago, try again with fresh one - 1+3 is effectively a one-shot developer and will grow unreliable within a day or two after mixing.

Daniel's suggestion is a good one - check your loading. And if everything is verified and Delta400 exposed and processed in parallel turns out right, toss that opened box and retry with one of the still originally sealed ones - that open box may have been open for 26 years...

[Domingo A. Siliceo]

Just to rule this out:

DID YOU LOAD YOUR HOLDERS CORRECTLTY?

[...]


hehehe... thanks for the video, Dan. Yes, I did load them correctly; they load same way than the Foma sheets (don't know if this is equal for all the brands).

I will try with fresh developer and film from the closed bags.

Thanks to all.

[Vaughn]

[QUOTE=Domingo A. Siliceo;962809]f/16, if I remember correctly. Does it matter?

If your shutter speed was a second or more, than you are dealing with significant reciprosity failure. A lot more 'failure' with Tri-X than TMax.

If you are comparing Tri-X with TMax (and possibly Delta 400), then you are comparing two types of films that have very different exposure and development latitudes.

[E. von Hoegh]

f/16, if I remember correctly. Does it matter?



I developed with D76 diluted 1+3, 21 minutes 20C/68F. The developer has a couple of weeks, and diluted specifically for these sheets. I know I should try a more standard dilution (say 1+1) but due to the high contrast of the zone where I live, I'd like to have the right time for a 1+3 dilution; in fact, I develop Delta 400 with D76 diluted 1+3 with, IMHO, very good results.

Domingo, "f:16" is an aperture setting, not a shutter speed.

I'm using expired Tri-X, some of which expired in the late 1980s. I've experienced some loss of sensitivity, but almost no base fog. It's been stored frozen. The oldest film works well at EI 125 to 160, but note that my EI for fresh Tri-X is 200.

I once developed a roll of 35mm Tri-X after it spent 8 years in an attic, I was shocked that I got images which printed fairly well.

[Domingo A. Siliceo]

Domingo, "f:16" is an aperture setting, not a shutter speed.
[...]


of course: my apologies. Shutter speed is 1/5 sec. or 1/10 sec., so no reciprocity failure issue.

I have developed two more sheets this afternoon with fresh developer prepared this morning, still diluted 1+3. Negatives are maybe a little better. Anyway, I will open a new bag and test sheets from there.

If it is a clue, this film fix really quick. With sodium thiosulfate fixer, home brewed today, 15% diluted, the sheet cleans in approximately 40 seconds.

[jnantz]

do you have an print developer ?
i regularly expose 90s vintage tri x
and process it in ansco 130 ... (caffenol C too )
if you can get some dektol
dilute it 1:5 and to a test for 5-6mins
i am sure you will get very nice results.

[Andrew O'Neill]

If the film was stored reasonably well, it should be okay. I have some boxes of kodak IR film from 1967 that are fine... a bit more B+F than normal, but a weak solution of KBr in the developer helps.