Ansco Studio Camera

[Jerry C. Hubbard]

I have just purchase a Ansco 8x10 studio camera. It also has a 5x7 back. I would like to know if anyone out there can help me identify the wood (looks mahogany) and anything about the history of this model. The standard lens is a Carl Meyer Anastigmatic f 4.5 303 mm (12 "). It goes down to f 45. It has T B and 1/2 tgru 1/50 shutter speeds. Around the ba se of the lens are the words Betax and Wollensak U S A. The secomnd lens is a Wollensack f 4.0. It is marked 18' Diffused Focus. It has f stops down to f 22. The third lens is a Bausch and Lomb-Zeiss Tessar Series 1c Its range of f stops is from 4.5 to 32. I don't find a focal length but I would guess that it is 35 t o 50 mm. This is for the 5x7 back. There is a shutter in the body of the camer as well as on the 300 mm and 35 mm? lenses. The diffuser lens does not have a shutter. I'm confused. Help would be appreciated. It stands on w ood and wrought iron tripod that has w heels. I got it from the original owner who hasn't used it in ten years. Thanks Jerry There are 6 8x10 filmholders and 6 5x7 holders. There are also 4 or 5 4x5 holder s. I would rate the package at 8.0 to 8.5.

[Ron Shaw]

Betax was the manufacturer of the shutter assembly. Wollensak made the lens. The 18" diffused focus lens was probably intended as a portrait lens, with a 'soft focus' look. The soft focus is only available when used at the largest aperture settings, with the lens getting sharper the more you stop it down. This may be a 'Verito'(sp) soft focus lens, made famous by Hollywood portrait photographer George Hurrell.

[Wayne]

Ansco cameras are made of cherry.

Wayne

[Wayne Campbell]

Wayne, One Wayne to another begs to differ. I thought the Ansco 8x10s were all made of mahogany. some natural and some black

[Wayne]

Wayne, Wayne here. My information comes from Richard Knoppow, a very knowledgeable fellow over on rec.photo.darkroom. Thats not to say he's never wrong, but I'm just going by what he says. I think he has old literature on the Anscos and also owns a couple. A guy who would know for sure because he restores them is Patrick Alt, altview@aol.com. A lot of people say they look like mahogany, so you're certainly not alone. I wouldnt swear by them all being cherry, but I know some are.

Ive got a 8x10 too, but its the gray painted model.

Wayne

[Wayne]

I just looked back at a email message from Patrick Alt. he says mine is cherry under the paint. Who knows, maybe there were a few exceptions made during periods when mahogany was more desireable from a manufacturing standpoint. all the info I've seen says cherry though. Alt would still be the one to ask to be certain.

Wayne

[Wayne Campbell]

Well Wayne, I did contact Richard Knoppow and he offered the following on the Cherry-Mahogony-Black-Grey theories of Ansco 8x10s...

"The gray paint was the "deluxe" finish. Ansco and Agfa offered the cameras with two finishes. The standard finish was the familear french polished Cherry wood with brass metal work finished in bronze gilt and black bellows. The "deluxe" finish (at a 20% premium) was aluminum-gray paint (it has little fleks of aluminum in it) and bright nickel-plated metal work. Pre-war cameras came with red bellows, not sure about the later on

[Wayne]

Sounds like they were cherry, huh? I've never seen an unpainted one, but I know a lot of people have thought they were mahogany. I love the gray paint myself. It really has to be seen to be appreciated, its not ugly at all. I was wary when I bought mine sight unseen, but was very pleased with its looks. Rumor has it that it performs almost as well as the wood finish models, too. ;-) And ironically, the painted ones now sell for less, despite the fact they were more expensive originally.

Wayne

[rusackson]

I recently stripped an Ansco Studio camera from the late thirties and the wood was a mix of Cherry, Mahogany, and Basswood ( point#8 in attached image). The grey paint was stripping badly and I needed to replace the bellows so I decided to take it all the way down. I did find an earlier catalog (pre1930) that says they were all Cherry.

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[Pawlowski6132]

Oh God. Who cares? What's the difference?

[Mark Sawyer]

Oh God. Who cares? What's the difference?


You might want to get a professional opinion. Not one from all the goofballs here.


Ha!!

I think you mean fags.

Or do you??

You always bring so much to the conversation...

[Pawlowski6132]

You always bring so much to the conversation...

Selective and totally out of context.

Not fair. Not fair at all.

But, I get your point.

[Mark MacKenzie]

No, I think its fair. I care. I bought an Ansco Studio camera 3 weeks ago. My paint is in poor shape. Its really a cool camera. I have considered stripping it but worried about the stripper hurting the glue.

Just today I mounted my Vitax lens to it. You should see the gg... but maybe nobody cares...

[Pawlowski6132]

I had an Ansco 8x10 and now have a Kodak 2D. It never occured to me to even wonder what wood was used. What's the difference? Seriously? I'm not being rhetorical. Sincerely, how does it matter? Im obviusly missing something important.

[Mark Sawyer]

I had an Ansco 8x10 and now have a Kodak 2D. It never occured to me to even wonder what wood was used. What's the difference? Seriously? I'm not being rhetorical. Sincerely, how does it matter? Im obviusly missing something important.

The OP is currently restoring the camera. I don't know whether he may replace any wood parts, but if he does, he may want to replace it with a matching wood. Or maybe the type of wood will determine the stain or finish he uses. Or maybe he's just curious to know more about the camera he's restoring and intending to use. Are any of these such offensive reasons you feel the need to insult him for wondering?


Selective and totally out of context.

Not fair. Not fair at all.

But, I get your point.

Three of your last six posts, printed in their entirety. I've just noticed that your posts are as likely to be insults as not. And your next post in another thread after saying "but I get your point" was simply a "rolls eyes" icon. Just sayin'...

[Mark MacKenzie]

I haven't painted the lensboard, yet. Here's a pic...7479574796

[Mark MacKenzie]

Here's through the ground glass. I inverted to show the image upright.

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So to the point, how does the restoration look, rusackson? I bet mine is primarily cherry. The natural wood versions are beautiful. Believe it or not, the painted version was the more expensive option. The Vitax looks like a cannon on it.

[Mark Sawyer]

That must be the 16-inch Vitax. A wonderful lens, and it should be right at home on that camera! I'd strongly suggest replacing at least a couple of screws with little machine screws that go all the way through the lens board and have nuts on the back. That lens has a lot of weight and leverage to pull screws out, and it would be a shame to watch it crash to the floor...

[Louis Pacilla]

I recently stripped an Ansco Studio camera from the late thirties and the wood was a mix of Cherry, Mahogany, and Basswood ( point#8 in attached image). The grey paint was stripping badly and I needed to replace the bellows so I decided to take it all the way down. I did find an earlier catalog (pre1930) that says they were all Cherry.

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Hey rusackson

Seeing how your Studio #5 outfit had the deluxe sparkle grey finish that makes yours a later model. I know they did not offer this finish in the 1930 Catalog but it is offered in the 1938 catalog and they give all three woods being used in the 1938 catalog. Therefor I would consider your camera/stand to follow the cherry, mahogany and basswood construction. If ever they made the entire camera/stand out of mahogany or Cherry (I'm pretty certain they did) it was long before they started painting them.

As far as which is which on your camera /stand, I would think the camera standards will be mahogany The rails cherry and the stand mostly basswood . I certainly could be wrong so if any camera builders out there who may know please speak up.:)

I go to the Ansco #5 most times over my Century studios for a couple of reasons. One being that you can slide the camera forward on the platform when your using lots of extension. They designed their stand and camera this way by making the platform stop block small enough to slide between either of the front extension rails.They claim this way "the operator" you can reach all the controls from behind the camera.
BTW- You can't do this with a Semi-Centennial.

I also like the Ansco stand a little better than the Semi Centennial as it just seems smoother and the tilt mechanism is tops.

Anyhow post some photos of your camera as soon as you finished with the restoration.

Here a shot of the camera slide forward on thew platform and a couple others

[Mark MacKenzie]

Louis, the pictures of your beautiful Ansco makes me want to strip mine to natural. I haven't shot it yet but I have only had it three weeks.

Mark, I have to admit. I have no flange on my Vitax. I cut the hole in the lensboard pretty accurately and the lens threaded into the plywood. I then wrapped the inside (of the camera) barrel with a thick leather and used a hose clamp. It is totally bogus but seems very stout. I am very very careful with it and will be looking out for a flange.

Louis, thanks for the tip on the front block. It never occurred to me that the camera would fit over it instead of behind it. Good point!

I wonder how common this camera is now? I read that there were studio cameras in just about every town back in the old days...

[big_ben_blue]

I just recently finished restoring my Ansco stand. Was the battleship/metallic grey "premium de luxe" version :rolleyes: . Anyhow, my original plan of stripping the paint and going with a wood finish got torpedoed right away. The above mentioned mix of different woods was one thing (one post being Mahagoni and the other probably basswood); but the overall quality of the wood raised some eyebrows. Seriously, the one post looks like it originated from reclaimed wood out of a shipping pallet, all dinged up, burning marks, knots and what not.
I can just imagine how the grey luxury finish came about:
accountant - "we need to lower manufacturing costs"
plant manager - "how about using all the free wood from the reject pile"
director - "but nobody in their right mind would buy this crap"
company sign painter - "lets buy that cheap gray paint and slap it on generously to hide the mess"
director (again) - "now absolutely nobody will buy this ugly sin for sure; we are ruined"
marketing spinster - "simple call it the "de-luxe" version. All you need to do is jacking up the price into the sky, and every gullible consumer out there thinks it's the must-have gizmo of the season."
And so every photographer with a name to prove and a deep pocket went out and got one. And the lesser heeled frugal competition went for the 3rd party knock-offs, all the starving poor artists simply repainted their cameras them-self, and the ones on drugs went even further and painted them white instead of gray.

PS: My stand sports an ebony finish now.

[cdholden]

Mark,
In all my travels around TN, I've only seen one. I don't go west of Jackson very often, but I cover eastern and middle TN pretty well. In the 6 years I've been bouncing around the state, the one I saw was in a camera shop down in Chattanooga. I forget the name of it, but I could find it if I was in the area again. I think it was an Ansco, but it had a J. C. Somerville branded lens on it. I guessed it to be a Rapid Rectilinear as it just seemed to be too small to be a petzval type lens on an 8x10. After telling me the story about how he got it in pieces and had to find screws from a variety of sources to put it back together, the guy behind the counter said it was for sale. When I asked how much, he was offended when I snickered at his "$3500" reply. "Good luck with that."
I'm curious. What size lensboard does your camera have? I picked up an older style Ansco field camera a while back. I thought the ones without front tilt all had 7.25" boards. Mine is just short of 7.5". I've been looking online and have recently seen some listed as 6.5" and 7".

Chris

[Mark MacKenzie]

Hey Chris!
9" x 9" . I am making boards from Finnish Plywood. Maybe its called marine plywood... birch but no voids and good quality. This one was in North Carolina and came with 8x10, 5x7, and a homemade 4x5 back. The 5x7 is the sliding one but I don't have the inner piece which I will cobble together. The bellows draw is amazing. I bought it primarily for my 14" Comm. Ektar and the Vitax. Drop me a pm and I'd be happy to meet you and show it off.

Yes, the value of these things is weird. Small market of people to actually use them and they are too big for curiosity pieces. Useless as a field camera but so handy to have setup in a studio. I saw one on Ebay listed for $3300. Mine was less than an inexpensive 8x10 field camera.

Ben, I bet you're right on the money. The paint is cool though and the speckles must have been a little more expensive than without.

I wonder how all of y'all's sitters react to this thing. When I shoot my Anny Speed I get good looks from people liking the old school camera, I can't wait to see the reaction to this. My wife thinks it is too imposing... but she's had her space invaded by cameras for too long.

[cdholden]

I think I recall reading that some manufacturers made their backs to be interchangeable between their studio and field cameras. I can bring you one of mine to test that out. If that's the case, you may want to keep an eye out for a standard 5x7 back. The sliding one shoots 2 portraits on a 5x7 sheet. In my selfish opinion, 5x7 is the smallest size that I like for my contact prints. If nothing else, it's just one more option to offer your sitters/customers.

[rusackson]

At this time I only have the camera (not the legs) stripped to bare wood and it is entirely made of Cherry. As I was initially stripping and sanding I was amazed why anyone would want to cover up such a great piece in that grey paint; which I now dub (thanks to Big Ben) battleship grey for its resilience. I guess as they entered the modern era people decided to say "F*&K OLD WOOD". Woodwork in many homes of the era suffered the same fate. As I am not an expert on identifying wood I brought the camera to someone who specializes in it, Bud Nosen of Bud Nosen Models. Nosen supplies most hobby shops with wood for modeling projects: http://budnosenmodels.com. Their shop is just down the road from me. They confirmed it was made of Cherry. I will post some photos of the camera as the project progresses.

[Mark MacKenzie]

Good luck with it; I look forward to seeing the photos. I wonder if you will have to stain the cherry to even out the red and maybe darken it some. I wonder if a gloss or matte finish is more appropriate.

I took the original lensboard to Home Depot to match the grey for touchup and lensboard paint but they only got close. Its noticeably a different shade but not too bad and of course no metallic flake. It will do.

[Louis Pacilla]

I think I recall reading that some manufacturers made their backs to be interchangeable between their studio and field cameras. I can bring you one of mine to test that out. If that's the case, you may want to keep an eye out for a standard 5x7 back. The sliding one shoots 2 portraits on a 5x7 sheet. In my selfish opinion, 5x7 is the smallest size that I like for my contact prints. If nothing else, it's just one more option to offer your sitters/customers.

Yep you recalled correctly Chris.

The Ansco field cameras and studio #5's do share the same spring backs with one difference. while the field cameras have a special clip with metal corners on the spring back and NO registering pins. As we know most cameras of this era including Century field and Studio and the #5 Ansco Studio have the registering pins in all or some of the corners.

I did this on my Studio #5 by using a 8x10 Field camera back and adding the pins. I bought a stock rod of brass from the hobby store and cut it to size. Just make sure when you drill your holes to use one size smaller bit. This will insure a tight fit for the pins. Then just tap the pins in and then I sanded the pins ends so they are smooth. That's it. You'll find you only really the pins on the two sides. This is how I did my 8x10 back.

Here are some snaps to better show what I tried to explain. The 1st shot shows a 5x7 field back and the 8x10 back w/ pins added.The second is 5x7 no pin 5x7 with pins (Studio) and the last is the original 5x7 back without brass clip plates and the converted 8x10 back.

[rusackson]

From what I have read Cherry is a pain to stain. It coats unevenly and appears blotchy. Gel stains (pigmented) are not supposed to suffer from this problem. Considering adding the color to the topcoat as another option. If Cherry is left alone it will naturally darken down and take on a red color. I initially thought smaller parts of the camera were different woods because of the darker red color. They must have been sitting around the Ansco factory for awhile ready for assembly. I am amazed at the color change from the time of sanding until today. It is already slightly more yellow/orange than the pale flesh appearance after sanding.

[Mark Sawyer]

Rusackson is right, but there are pre-stain treatments to help the wood stain more evenly. Easy to use, and very helpful on old or previously-finished wood of any type. Color added to the clear finish coat tends to hide the natural grain, and I don't like the effect.

[Mark Sawyer]

Mark, I have to admit. I have no flange on my Vitax. I cut the hole in the lensboard pretty accurately and the lens threaded into the plywood. I then wrapped the inside (of the camera) barrel with a thick leather and used a hose clamp. It is totally bogus but seems very stout. I am very very careful with it and will be looking out for a flange.

This is almost exactly the same idea, and it's the best alternative to a flange I've come up with: next time you're at the hardware store, look for a big sewer connector fitting. They're black rubber with a big ring clamp around each end. With a utility knife, cut about a 1-inch band with the ring clamp off each end, (now you have enough for two lenses!) Put it around the back side of the lens (behind the lensboard where it won't show) and screw the ring clamps down tight. Keep the rubber snugged up against the lensboard as you tighten it, and the compression will tighten it just a little more. Very secure, and the rubber protects the barrel from any damage.

I've done this on a number of my lenses, including the 13-inch Vitax below, (it's the big lens). I've since painted the clamps flat black, but wanted them to show up well when I took the photo.

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g139/Owen21k/IMG_6091.jpg

I bet your solution works as well as mine, but missing flanges are a common problem, so for anyone else wandering through the thread... :)

[Jay DeFehr]

Mark,
That's a great alternative to a flange. I've used embroidery hoops in exactly the same way, to mount my Verito. Works like a charm!

[Jay DeFehr]

P.S. -- I paint mine flat black.

[Mark MacKenzie]

Here is a pic of the 5x7 sliding back. 748397484074841 I think it is missing the part that baffles the image down to 5x3.5. I think its a cool idea and you get two almost 4x5 images on one sheet of film. Could be useful at some point.

I am just learning to contact print. I have been enlarging 4x5 and smaller but contact prints seem to be difficult to do well.

[Jay DeFehr]

http://paperdoily.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/embroidery-hoop.jpg

[Mark Sawyer]

Hmmm, I may have to look for some of those embroidery hoops, Jay! You may have gone me one better! But they look a bit limited to how much you can adjust the size. Is that right? BTW, I edited my post to add that I later painted mine flat black too. Great minds thing alike... :cool:

[Mark MacKenzie]

Glad to see those, Mark. It makes me feel better. Really the lens feels secure. The longer Vitax has a lot of weight hanging out in front, though. I think it would take alot of force to pull it out of the board. The lensboard is being painted and drying otherwise I would include a pic.

The Vitax looks so cool on the ground glass. I can't wait to shoot it.

These are fun cameras and this is one of the only older threads I could find on them before I bought mine. I was worrying if I could fit it in the car. Four bolts or so and the cast iron base is off. Two clamps and the posts release the rising platform and separate and lo and behold, it fits in the trunk. Almost portable... sort of.

[Mark MacKenzie]

Good idea on the hoops Jay.

Ok, so I will have to paint my clamps black, too.

[Mark MacKenzie]

So this may be a crazy idea or maybe not.

Has anybody turned one of these into a horizontal 8x10 enlarger?

Light source, diffuser, neg hanger,...

Wouldn't it work?

[Jay DeFehr]

Mark S.,

They don't have much adjustment, so if you can't find one the right size, for a snug fit with some tightening room, you have to get a little creative. If the hoop is a little too big, you can use a shim (large rubber band, leather, etc.), or adjust the hoop itself, which is easy to do, and a little cleaner.

Mark M.,

View cameras have been used as enlargers, but all those movements are problematic. A studio camera is more closely related to a process camera, which is almost an enlarger. I have a Graflex camera that might be a studio camera, or it might be a process camera-- big lensboard, no front movements, center standard. Whatever it was meant for, it works really well as a studio portrait camera, especially if big lenses are to be used.

[Mark MacKenzie]

I saw a Karsh exhibit recently and most of the prints were 20x24 and just beautiful! I think most had to have been 8x10 negatives. There was the Churchill photo in 8x10 and 20x24. The 8x10 looked like a contact and the larger one just a little softer. Of course that big paper means bigger trays or tubes or something... I could just be pipe dreamin.

An 8x10 light source for the back of the camera might not be so hard to rig up and with the tilt and back movements, maybe not so hard to align.

[cdholden]

Yep you recalled correctly Chris.

The Ansco field cameras and studio #5's do share the same spring backs with one difference. while the field cameras have a special clip with metal corners on the spring back and NO registering pins. As we know most cameras of this era including Century field and Studio and the #5 Ansco Studio have the registering pins in all or some of the corners.

I did this on my Studio #5 by using a 8x10 Field camera back and adding the pins. I bought a stock rod of brass from the hobby store and cut it to size. Just make sure when you drill your holes to use one size smaller bit. This will insure a tight fit for the pins. Then just tap the pins in and then I sanded the pins ends so they are smooth. That's it. You'll find you only really the pins on the two sides. This is how I did my 8x10 back.

Here are some snaps to better show what I tried to explain. The 1st shot shows a 5x7 field back and the 8x10 back w/ pins added.The second is 5x7 no pin 5x7 with pins (Studio) and the last is the original 5x7 back without brass clip plates and the converted 8x10 back.

Thanks for confirming this.
It also explains why a forum member had what appeared to be an Ansco back, but with the pins, unlike mine with just the brass corners. I've never had one of Ansco's studio cameras, but have had a few field of their cameras.

[rusackson]

Almost done sanding.

7492274923

[Mark MacKenzie]

Wow, that's going to look great!

[Mark Sawyer]

Please don't inspire me, I have enough projects already... :(

(just kidding, looks like you'll have a wonderful new camera soon!)

[rusackson]

Thanks, looking forward to a functional and eye pleasing piece.

I agree Mark S. I should be out riding motorcycle, hiking, and photographing these wonderful storms we have been having. Instead I have been inhaling lead paint, crafting sanding tools, and scouring eBay for petzvals.

[rusackson]

Going to move my project over to the LF DIY. Everything is stained and awaiting reassembly. Identified locations where Basswood was used on my Ansco and found a random piece of poplar in the stand.
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[Mark MacKenzie]

Glad to see the progress! I mounted my Vitax which is fun to look through but haven't shot it yet. I did get some Fuji HR-U Xray 8x10 and have shot two self portraits (with a 14" Commercial Ektar) for film testing purposes. My darkroom is a bit of a hothouse so I haven't gotten in there yet.

I need a starting point for this Xray film in HC-110.

I like the camera being set up and ready to go.

Will you make your own new bellows? Mine have some holes but they are pretty stoutly made.

[rusackson]

One last post before I move it over to the DIY. I will be making my own bellows. Luckily I work at a sewing manufacturing plant and have access to a cutting table running CAD software. No exactos for me :)
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[Jim Fitzgerald]

As a Camera builder all I can say is this is sweet!! Can't wait to see the finished product. Way to go.