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NoBob
3-Dec-2012, 08:55
For a complete beginner buying an Arca Swiss for architectural photography (film, 120 or 4x5), is an older model going to do the job, or is it worth paying the extra for an F-Line or Discovery?

And can the older models be upgraded?

NoBob
3-Dec-2012, 10:56
Found these useful pages. Will read 'em.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/arca-swiss.html

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?11755-Acra-Swiss-model-C

http://photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=000x4A

http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=003aWR

http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0001Wc

neil poulsen
3-Dec-2012, 23:05
I have a 171mm 4x5 Classic F and an old-style Arca 6x9.

The thing to remember about the older-style Arcas is that they have a foam seal in the front and back. So, you would need to monitor these light seals for deterioration, change them when needed, etc.

Also, I believe that my 6x9 Arca can't bring the lens and ground glass as close together as a modern 6x9 Arca. If this is the case in the 4x5 old-style, then this could affect architectural photography. (Given architectural photography's reliance on super-wides.) At the same time, while hard to find, recessed lensboards as deep as 2 inches were made for the old-style 4x5 Arcas.

Other than these details, the controls, rise, shift, etc., seem to work just fine on my older Arca.

NoBob
4-Dec-2012, 11:08
Thanks Neil.

john borrelli
9-Dec-2012, 08:55
A new version of an arca swiss discovery is not common but can be found second hand for a good price. Here are some thoughts.

I owned the stock Discovery(12 inch monorail, big lens boards, standard bellows). It was the perfect camera for a one lens photographer, particularly if the one lens is a 150mm lens. The thing is like carrying a big, metal brick around but it is the best camera for the money and you might be able to find one used for between 600.00 and 1000.00 depending on condition, accessories,etc. I bought the expensive folding rail which made it easier to carry.

Now if you want to use a wide angle lens 90mm or wider, that's where the problems start. I purchased the leather wide angle bellows and used the folding rail. Again, it worked perfectly as a wide angle camera but these accessories, even second hand, are expensive. Things also got very bulky and time consuming in swapping out bellows and rails, particularly, when I added a 300mm lens, then I found I needed yet another bellows and more rails, which again added to the bulk and time in going from one lens to another. Things got so cumbersome, I got frustrated and sold everything on ebay and bought a 35mm rangefinder and a new stereo with the money.

In closing, if you are able to use just one lens at a time, or lenses close in focal length, so that you don't have to carry around and swap pieces too often, and you don't mind the weight, I don't think you can buy a significantly better camera at any price.

More expensive Arca Swiss models (like the Arca F field version I believe) are more flexible and you don't have to "rebuild" the camera every time you swap a lens but the prices will go up significantly.

NoBob
9-Dec-2012, 09:10
Thanks John.

r.e.
9-Dec-2012, 12:05
I started with an Arca-Swiss Discovery and I currently have the components to run my camera for both 4x5 and 8x10 film.

I think that Mr. Borrelli's comments don't reflect the fact that the system is modular.

P.S. If someone has the 5x7 F-line, 171 components and wants to sell, let me know :)

r.e.
9-Dec-2012, 12:15
To be specific about this comment from Mr. Borrelli:

"More expensive Arca Swiss models (like the Arca F field version I believe) are more flexible and you don't have to "rebuild" the camera every time you swap a lens but the prices will go up significantly."

The only parts difference between a Discovery and an F-line camera is that the Discovery function carriers are a bit different, one of them not being geared. Both Discovery function carriers can be used on any other F-line camera, and I happen to like using the non-geared carrier.

toyotadesigner
9-Dec-2012, 15:17
I am a lucky, happy and content owner of an Arca Swiss F-Line 6x9 from ~ 1985 with relatively new Rodenstock lenses from 45mm to 180mm. Until today I've never reached any limits with this camera in architecture, interior, cityscapes, documentation.

It can't be upgraded, but it does have a mini Graflok back, so some digital backs might fit (I really don't know, I'm not interested in this option).

At least for me I don't see any reason to upgrade this marvel. If I need a larger format, I use another camera.

One important point if you will buy a used one: Check the gears. Arca doesn't have any spare parts for models prior to 1990.

NoBob
12-Dec-2012, 12:20
Thanks all.

Thanks for the tip about the gears.

mandoman7
12-Dec-2012, 12:56
I'm late to the party, but would suggest that the earlier models A,B, & C are excellent choices if you're looking for quality at a very good price. One big difference in usage is the yaw-free capability of the later models, which may not be critical for the average new user of view cameras. On the plus side, you can get a great outfit for under $500 in a camera that was considered top-of-the-line in the 70's (and good enough for Ansel). I have an A model along with a Chamonix in 4x5, and prefer the Arca for every day kind of field use, as lens changing and re-composing are way quicker with this simple monorail (using Technika adapter so lenses can be used with both).

mervynyan
7-Jan-2013, 21:45
I have Discovery with Schneider 110/5.6 and nikkor-w 210/5.6. I sold chamonix 4x5 n1 for this. Fully loaded is very heavy, not easy if you hike.

evan clarke
8-Jan-2013, 07:07
I have five Arcas and the best 4x5 solution is the 141mm F Metric with Orbix, standard bellows and the optical bench. I can use my 58xl all the way up to my 500 Tele with great movements. My 72 XL is awesome on this camera.

Noah A
8-Jan-2013, 07:24
Evan--Not to hijack the thread, but how much movement can you get with wide lenses (75mm, 90mm, 115mm) and the standard bellows? I've ordered the leather W/A bellows too but maybe the standard will work most of the time.

Back on topic, I agree about the 141 F-Metric. I used the 8x10 version for a while and just ordered the 4x5, should arrive today actually. Can't really comment on the 4x5 other than from brief demos, but the 8x10 I worked with was compact (for an 8x10 camera!), very solid and very easy to use. It's probably the most intuitive and transparent design I've worked with. I'm assuming the same mechanisms holding smaller lenses and a smaller 4x5 back will be even more solid.

evan clarke
8-Jan-2013, 07:38
I have 58, 72, 80 and 110 XLs. I get enough movement for all of them. I have the 58 and 80 in recessed boards. My other 4x5 is a 171 F Metric/Orbix with the leather combination bellows. I never thought I could have a better camera than it until I saw the 141 with the terrific standard bellows. They wouldn't sell me the display camera right on the spot, I ordered it and flew to Phoenix to get it!! Can't say enough good about this camera and I have a huge arsenal of modern cameras. Think about the Cube for it too, maybe the best piece of gear I own..

Noah A
8-Jan-2013, 10:03
Thanks Evan. Maybe I could have saved the $$$ for the leather bellows, sorry I didn't ask earlier. Though I may still need it for some pretty extreme rise, and if not I'll need a backup bellows anyway.

My camera should arrive today, I ordered it from Rod. I'd love a Cube too but we'll see if it's in the budget.

dperez
8-Jan-2013, 10:23
I might be willing to sell my Arca Swiss F-Line with standard and bag bellows, as well as a modified Toyo hood and 171mm lens boards. Let me know if you are interested.

-DP

evan clarke
8-Jan-2013, 12:40
Thanks Evan. Maybe I could have saved the $$$ for the leather bellows, sorry I didn't ask earlier. Though I may still need it for some pretty extreme rise, and if not I'll need a backup bellows anyway.

My camera should arrive today, I ordered it from Rod. I'd love a Cube too but we'll see if it's in the budget.


Cool, I bought my last one From Rod while he was at Photomark in Phoenix..Good luck with it. The leather bellows is really terrific if you aren't going for really long lenses, with the three you mentioned, it'll be perfect.

biedron
8-Jan-2013, 15:22
Here's another vote for the Arca F line. I've got a 141/110 4x5 with the 30cm bench and I can use the Rodenstock 55mm Apo Grandagon on a flat board all the way to the Nikkor 500 T-ED, with no change in the configuration. At the wide end the main limitation for movement is the lens coverage (hardly any excess on 4x5), rather than the bellows.

Saving my pennies for an 8x10 F...

Bob