BW pictures in sunshine during the middle of the day

[Ola Lagarhus]

Some of Weston`s pictures were taken in sunshine in the middle of the day. Without using Pyro, is there a film (in MF and LF) and developer combo that can handle the large contrast? From what I`ve seen, even Ansel Adams had problems here – I think of some of his pictures taken during a visit to the (US) west coast.

[Robert A. Zeichner]

I think most times the objection to mid-day photography has more to do with flatter lighting than anything else. When the sun is low and the light strikes the surface of things at a narrower angle as it does early in the day, the shadows are longer and the texture of objects becomes more obvious. The three dimensionality of the subject is also often better defined. As far as capturing the greater range of luminance that one might encounter in bright sunlit situations, this is not always the case. Particularly with light colored subjects, the reflectivity of them often makes their shadows brighter as well. I've made many mid-day photographs in Death Valley where subject brightness is often high and I've rarely needed to shorten development. If you were shooting in gorges where much of the subject was in shade and you had sunlit highlights on moving water, for instance, that could be a different problem. I typically use T-max films in 4x5 size and process in Ilfotec HC (very much like HC-110). When I was using X-tol, I likewise had no difficulty with contrast.

[Michael Dowdall]

Ola, Ed Buffaloe's site lists a developer that can capture a 14 stop range. I haven't tried it myself so I can't vouche for it's accuracy. But it's a pyrocatechin fomula which sounds good and I've been using pmk captures more than the paper I print on can handle (got work on that compression). It's called appropriately "Pyrocatechin Compensating Formula" Here's the link;

http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Developers/Formulas/formulas.html

Ed also states that it is possible to get an 18 stop range on fortepan 400 developed in pyrocat hd. I don't use the 400 but use fortepan 200 in pmk and get the long scale I wrote about. Here's the link;

http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/PC-HD/pc-hd.html

[Donald Miller]

As I recall Bruce Barnbaum has stated that in his experience a film can handle 15 stops of luminance. I am not sure what film he uses and I don't believe that he uses pyro developers. You may want to check with him.

The problem is not only what the film can record but also more limiting is the paper's exposure scale.

[Andre Noble]

C'mon, a normal midday pictorial scene in bright sunlight is about 8 stops at the most from bright white to dark shadow. What are people pointing their camera at that is 18 stops?

[John O'Connell]

As stated above, the problem is on the paper rather than the film. Only very rarely will you really find a scene beyond the recording power of film, unless you have a habit of putting light sources in every frame.

That said, you've got to decide with your film how you want the highlights rendered. Flatter, with a shoulder as with HP5+; or contrasty, with a straight line film like the old TMX.

Traditional zonie formulas and films are the way to get the long scale without pyro -- divided D-23 or developers where you can greatly vary dilution for different situations, like Rodinal or HC-110.

All of this said, it's very, very rare that I actually find a scene where I worry about these things, and when I do, I usually just restrict myself to a non-silver printing process for that subject. (Sometimes it pays to have 8x10 negatives.)

And the standard advice to not photograph in full sun is misleading in my experience. In color it seems a sure recipe for disaster, but with B&W, the patterns of the light and shadow may be most pleasing at noon on a particular subject. And some subjects scream out for full sun -- high activity days at Centralia are far better in full sun than in overcast light.

[KenM]

Barnbaum primarily uses Tri-X developed in HC-110. For scenes of extreme contrast, he uses either a very (very!) dilute mixutre of HC-110, or a two-mixture development, the first being of normal dilution (I think), with the second being extremely dilute.

Bruce does not use any staining developers, since it prevents him from further increasing contrast (when necessary) using selenium.

[Mark_3632]

Where are people finding 14-15 stops of difference. I am damned lucky to get seven, and mid day photos are even lower due to the height of the sun and lack of elongated shadows. Am I doing something wrong? I spend my time wondering about how I can stretch contrast never compress.

Then again if the sun is shining in a window and the lights are off maybe the meter would jump that high.

[mark lindsey]

I rarely find such a high contrast range but on occasion have had ranges close to 15 stops. I recall a portrait of a catholic priest I took in southern ca.--him in bright white robes outside in full sun against the open doorway (very dark) of the church.

it does happen.

[Conrad Hoffman]

A purely reflective target (like a greyscale) is no problem in full sun or any other light. The problem is the stuff in shadows. If you photograph a barn in full sun, but the open door of the barn is a black hole next to the white trim, the range can be huge. The question is, how much detail do you need underneath cars and inside barns? As said above, any film and developer combination will handle far more than you can print on paper. Here's my observation, though I'm not sure what to do about it- if you decrease development to handle a large contrast range, you reduce the contrast of the midrange tones. To my eye, that looks dull. That also makes the Zone System a bit questionable :-) In the recent article (can't remember the mag) on Michael and Paula of Azo fame, there was a shot of a sink and some indoor details, along with the view out a window. The shot amazed me, because somehow they managed to not only cover the contrast range, but keep a glow and brilliance in the darker sink and indoor details that was simply wonderful. Maybe it was the paper, but I tend to think it was skill and understanding of how to retain shadow separation.

[Chuck_1686]

Maybe you could try pre-exposing the film to help control the contrast.

[Michael A.Smith]

That photograph was by Paula. I won't say that Paula photographs inside/outside photographs all the time, but she does it frequently and always manages to hold detail at both ends of the scale. Partly it is due to long-scale film (we have heard that Efke film has such a long scale), and equally importantly, the Azo paper we print on. Azo is capable of handling a very long tonal range without blocking up. If I had to come down on the side of which is more important I would say the paper is. Conrad rightly said: if you decrease development too much you lose mid-tone separation. So the trick is to give full exposure to get detail in the lowest values and develop long enough to get mid-tone separation, but not block up the highlights. Then print on Azo, which can be seen as a "cpmpensating paper." That is not strictly true, but the effect is the same as if it were.

We photograph in full sun and mid-day all of the time. We prefer that light--it is subtle, not dramatic. The tiny (rather than long) shadows perk it up just enough and there is usually a full range of tones, however hard you may have to look for them or however subtle they might be..

What light you choose to work in is really a function of your world view. I see everything as important and my photographs are structured right up to the edges--everything is considered. If everything is important, I don't want things hidden in shadows. No right or wrong in this--just personal preference.

[Francis Abad]

I concur. I perfer midday sun because I like everything in the scene to be included in the negative. My tastes dictate that there is detail in shadows and not just empty black space - detail in highlights and not just empty white space. Midday (or sun up high) shots ensure this. As a matter of fact I have just got back from such a day and I can attest to what Michael said as being true: every inch of the negative will have detail in it - in part because of Efke, Pyrocat and AZO (the choice of materials), but just as importantly, the scene was well lit.