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Leonard Metcalf
1-Apr-2004, 06:24
Being one of those people who loves to know the rules that they are breaking, I would love to hear all of the 'rules for compositon'. Also wondering if I do indeed know them.

Can anyone help? References; books, websites... etc...

or even a brief overview of a rule.

Any rules out there that are specific to large format?

Ralph Barker
1-Apr-2004, 06:43
The thought of rules always makes me think of the film, "The Lord of the Flies" and the line in the movie, "We're British, and the British are very good at making rules."

One that I find both helpful, and helpful to break is the Rule of Thirds, in which the image space is divided by vertical and horizontal lines at the 1/3s of both dimension. The theory, of course, is that the main point of interest should be placed at one of the four intersections.

Gem Singer
1-Apr-2004, 06:49
Hi Leonard,

Jack Dykinga has a well written, easy to understand, chapter in his book explaining compositional rules (suggestions of what has worked in the past): "Large Format Nature Photography". The entire book is well worth reading.

Ken C
1-Apr-2004, 06:51
Sorry for the useless post, I'm just interested in getting emails of all subsequent (useful) replies.

jerry brodkey
1-Apr-2004, 07:26
For a classical view from about 100 years ago look up the books of Sadakichi Hartmann.

For a modern treatment see Zakia's Perception and Imaging.

Best of all, look closely at the works of great photographers you admire.

Jerry

Bruce Wehman
1-Apr-2004, 07:41
"Compositional Rules for Photographers" is a very small subset of a more global subject, "Two Dimensional Design." On this, there is much written, much debate and no conclusive scholarship. All one can safely say is that what is ok is what is in fashion at the moment. Or, to carry that a bit further, what is not in fashion at the moment.

John Kasaian
1-Apr-2004, 07:43
It seems like a rule that whenever I want to shoot a landscape, there will be somebody who will have already parked their Toyota 4x4 pick up somewhere in the middle 1/3rd of it!

David R Munson
1-Apr-2004, 07:57
The first rule of composition is that you don't talk about composition.
The second rule of composition is that you don't talk about composition...

That is to say, here's a list of compositional rules/creative devices that come to mind at the moment. All of them ripe to be broken...

1. Rule of thirds
2. Limited color palette
3. Selective focus
4. Silhouette
5. Diagonals
6. S-curves
7. Don't center your subject
8. Use patterns
9. Simplicity

Mike Florey
1-Apr-2004, 08:01
Ralph

It might also be said "We are photographers and photographers are fond of breaking rules."

Tongue planted firmly in cheek.

tim atherton
1-Apr-2004, 08:21
""Compositional Rules for Photographers" is a very small subset of a more global subject, "Two Dimensional Design." On this, there is much written, much debate and no conclusive scholarship. All one can safely say is that what is ok is what is in fashion at the moment. Or, to carry that a bit further, what is not in fashion at the moment."

well said Bruce! In addition to which there really are no rules... (and an awful lot of the rules are base on the assumption that persepctive is something real rather than just a theory - which tends to lead to a lot of boring images)

Mark Sampson
1-Apr-2004, 08:24
Try the PPofA and their "salon" competitions. At least those folks used to play by the "rules" (don't know if they still do), so they may have a copy of the "rulebook".

Jim Rhoades
1-Apr-2004, 09:11
"No one can teach another how to see. If composition could be taught, anyone might become an artist. Composition is a way of seeing-- strong or weak, according to the individual. Rules of composition are deduced from the work of strong masters and used by weak imitators to produce nothing."

Edward Weston

I wish I had book marked all of the quotes of Mr. Weston relative to composition. Another is something like "Composition is the strongest way of seeing something." Read his daybooks as he beats up all the rules. Many of his most well known nudes were shot near high noon. "Golden light", ha.

Merg Ross
1-Apr-2004, 10:00
"To consult rules of composition before making a picture is a little like consulting the law of gravitation before going for a walk. Good composition is only the strongest way of seeing the subject. It cannot be taught because, like all creative effort, it is a matter of personal growth.''

Edward Weston, 1943

Colin Carron
1-Apr-2004, 10:21
Not sure if this is strictly a compositional rule but a very useful idea to carry around is to exclude as much from the picture as possible and leave only the essentials.

Kirk Gittings
1-Apr-2004, 11:02
I agree with the people who have quoted Weston so adeptly. Having taught photography off and on for 23 years now, I have to say that composition cannot be taught. It can only be commented on. It works or it doesn't for each particular image. At the risk of sounding absurd....on a ground glass when it works you can feel it as a tingling in your spine. It is a felt sense more than an intellectual excersise.

Rich Long
1-Apr-2004, 11:17
According to Freeman Patterson, the only rule in photography is "never process color transparency film in chicken noodle soup." Or something to that effect.

otzi
1-Apr-2004, 21:17
*That is to say, here's a list of compositional rules/creative devices that come to mind at the moment. All of them ripe to be broken... *

Ah, but you need to know them first. ;-)

Joe Lipka
2-Apr-2004, 05:47
My favorite rule of photography is the rule of thirds. It has salvaged many boring photographic expeditions. I offer my version of the rule of thirds so that all photographers may benefit from it -

one third tequila

one third triple sec

one third lime juice

Shaken or stirred, your choice.

Best consumed with tongue firmly planted in cheek.

Bob._3483
2-Apr-2004, 06:53
"Best consumed with tongue firmly planted in cheek."

Are you sure - that sounds a good way to spill all that lovely lunch.... erm, sorry... I mean "evening drink", down your shirt....

Cheers,