Film processing in 20x24 print drum?

[Ari]

Hi,
I just went to my local used camera shop, and asked about a larger tank for processing 8x10 film.
They showed me a Simma-Colour print drum, for 20x24 prints.

The drum has movable slots, and I can slip six (6) 8x10 sheets in there securely, 3 piled on top of each other on either side of the tank.
There is shallow ribbing underneath where the film/paper goes.

My question is can I use this for 8x10 film? Or will it develop so poorly that I'll regret this?
If so, would anyone have an idea of how much solution to use in a tank this large (it stands about 2ft tall)?

Anyway, I brought the thing home, and I'm going to see if it fits on my roller base, but any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

[Ari]

A more specific question: will the "ribs", or slots, leave an impression on the film, even if I process with the emulsion side facing outward?
I really hope not, because I just had a quick look, and it will process (6) 8x10 sheets and (6) 4x5 sheets all at once.

I'll continue to search until someone can give me a definitive answer.
Thanks

[Len Middleton]

Ari,

My Jobo 3063 20x24 print drum indicates 300ml for rotation use.

I used it to develop two 8x20 sheets of film (it can hold three) and used 500ml for ease of calculating the chemical ratios and not wanting to take a chance, given the cost of 8x20 sheet film.

Processing looked to be good with no stripping or irregularities. I did do a water pre-soak, if that makes any difference.

Good luck,

Len

[Len Middleton]

The 3063 has longitudinal ribs too and that was a concern I had as well, but nothing obvious.

The real test would be with a uniform part of he negative (e.g. sky), I guess.

[Ari]

Len, thank you for answering; I feel a lot more confident doing this now that you didn't get any rib marks on your film.
One thing: my 2553 tank requires 500mL, I use 640mL (HC-110 dilution H); wouldn't such a large drum necessitate more chemistry?
To be sure, I might calculate on a solution-per-sheet basis.

Thanks again!

[ic-racer]

To be sure I might calculate on a solution-per-sheet basis.

Thanks again!
As you should. I think Len was giving you the MINIMUM volume, not a recommended processing volume.

I have good results processing 8x10 negative B&W film in a Jobo 2800 series with ribs. Occasionally I'll get an area on the back of the film that does not clear, so I soak in water after I take the negatives out of the drum. That usually clears the area, but very, very rarely I'll get an area on the back that does not clear completely.

[Ari]

Thanks, IC.
So I'll give it a shot tonight: 100mL of solution per 8x10 sheet, two pre-soaks, some developer, and a lot of prayer.

Thanks to you both.

[ic-racer]

Thanks, IC.
So I'll give it a shot tonight: 100mL of solution per 8x10 sheet, two pre-soaks, some developer, and a lot of prayer.

Thanks to you both.

I'm not 100% sure but I thought a problem with a negative actually sticking to the drum (and leaving a permanent mark on the back of the negative) occurred because I used a pre-wash. Not saying it was caused by it, but my impression was the prewash water did not get to the entire back of the negative, then either the developer, stop or fixer worked its way to the back of the negative it caused a problem when it met up with the 'dry' area.

Since then (over 100 sheets processed) I have not used a pre-wash in the 2800 or 3000 series (Ilford HP5 8x10 film in T-max developer) and have never had any 'uneven' development of the front, but I'm pouring the T-max in as the drum spins.

[Ari]

Thanks, IC.
I'll have to take that with a grain of salt, as I'm using a Simmons drum, and I'm not aware of the finer differences between Simmons and Jobo paper tanks.

[Len Middleton]

As you should. I think Len was giving you the MINIMUM volume, not a recommended processing volume.


ic,

Your assumption is correct. The 300ml was the minimum value indicated on the Jobo 3063 tank.

I did not calculate the amount of chemicals per square inch of film, but thought that by going up to 500ml that it would help deal with it, as well as levelness of the drum. As mentioned, although I could put up to three 8x20 sheets in it, I only used two.

The result was (8x20x2) 320 square inches of film with 500ml of chemicals, one shot of course. Something I should look into a bit more...

Hope that supplies a little more clarity,

Len

[Ari]

Just started the developing cycle for 10,5 minutes, and I played it safe: only 4 sheets of 8x10.
I was loading the drum last night, intending to stack 3 sheets per side, 6 in all, but I thought: what if one sheet drops down into another?
I heard it happening when the sheets were dry and being loaded, but they could slide into one another when I'm inverting the tank to dump chemicals.
Am I imagining a problem...or, does anyone know a solution to this?
Thanks

[Ari]

Ok, everything looks fine, no rib marks on the film as far as I can see, which is a relief.
I also think that if I can load the film and keep the tank level, then the liquids will ensure that each sheet stays in place; hopefully that will end my worry about sheets getting stuck together.
So far, so good; tonight, I will process six sheets in the tank.

The only problem thus far has been how to wash the film after fixing; I ended up using a siphon/tray combo, shuffling the film, and re-inserting it back in the tank for Photo-Flo on the roller base.
But that's another thread: "Home-made 8x10 Film Washer".

[thomas ciulei]

hi Ari,

here is a scan of the Sima Roller spec sheet.
you need 150ml of solution if you have the 30x40 drum, but check the chart :)


http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8058/8234561974_22616dd1ca_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/teeceer/8234561974/) SIMA Roller (http://www.flickr.com/photos/teeceer/8234561974/) by TeeSeeR (http://www.flickr.com/people/teeceer/), on Flickr

[tgtaylor]

I don't know if they will work with your drum, but Jobo makes two types of print seperatorss for their paper drums: one to keep the prints seperated horizontally and the other c]vertically. The latter is the horizontal seperator with a base protruding base at its center which prevents the top sheet from slipping down over the lower print. I have the 3063 drum but so far have confined my 8x10 processing to 2 sheets at a time in a 2830 drum using the horizontal spacers to keep them seperate. I process with the emulsion side facing inwards (toward the center of the tank) and never use a pre-soak. The backside of the film is always clear of anti-halation dye (the ridges on the tank assure that fluid reaches the backside) without marks of any kind from the drum. Occasionally a sheet appears as "stuck" and doesn't want to come out but it always does with a little coaching.

Thomas

[Ari]

Hi Thomas, thank you very much; that's good info to have, not just for me but anyone in the same situation.
I'll brush up on my German sofort! :)

Last night I used 600 mL of solution for 4 sheets; it was probably more than required, but everything came out very well.
Tonight, I'm going to do 6 sheets, and make up 900mL of solution.
I figure I'll wash in the tank à la C-41: add a litre of water, let it spin for a minute, empty the tank and re-fill; repeat 7 times.

Thomas, thanks for that info; looks like the tank I got didn't have the vertical film separators.
I've loaded the 6 sheets carefully, and kept the tank horizontal thus far; before closing it, I checked to see that the film sheets weren't overlapping each other.
Hopefully all will be good, but more on that later.

Thanks to you both.

[Ari]

Processed my six sheets today, all but one came out fine; I may have had some wet spots in the tank last night when I loaded the film.
My technique with the XL tank is improving, as dust and scratches are almost all gone.
One problem is there is tape residue halfway down the inside of the tank.
The tank is actually two cylinders taped together, and the exposed tape inside the tank is very sticky.

Does anyone have a solution for cleaning this?
I won't have any film to process for a few more weeks, so I'm up for trying anything.
Thanks

[John Powers]

Ari,
I believe the concern about rib pattern had to do with using pyro. I wanted to use a jobo 20x 24 drum (3063 or 3064) with Rollo Pyro when I first started shooting 7x17. I was warned that it might not show on the negative, but it would appear on the print. I tried it with two sheets once and got a lovely bunch of lines. I do two sheets at a time now with with 2500 series drums and all is well. The two sheet slide into the ribs.

John

[Ari]

Thanks, john; I've only had one sheet mess up thus far, and it wasn't rib marks, but the result of negatives being loaded in a drum where there were small wet areas.
Hope all is well!

[John Powers]

Ari,

All is well, thank you. Hope the same at your end.

Yes the tanks either have to be completely dry or full of water. To keep up with my course requirements I had to buy a second 2500 series drum because one would not dry fast enough to let me have ten 7x17 prints every two weeks for class critique. Factor in that I bracket my exposures so I only get one new negative per development cycle.

For 8x10 I use a Jobo Expert tank, giving me five negatives for each development cycle. That tank will dry over night allowing me to meet the ten good prints every two weeks critique deadline.

John

[Ari]

Hi John,
An Expert tank would have been very nice to have, but out of my budget.
I picked up the giant print drum for $25 locally, and it has a slightly better capacity.
Of course, I have to be more careful than when using a Jobo.

[John Powers]

Well at that price, with better capacity, perhaps you should consider it’s second purpose as a moonshine still, just to make up expenses.

Have a Happy Holiday.

John

[Ari]

Well at that price, with better capacity, perhaps you should consider it’s second purpose as a moonshine still, just to make up expenses.

Have a Happy Holiday.

John

I would do that, John, but I need my eyes in order to see. :)
Happy holidays to you as well.

[John Powers]

Maybe that is why I can't focus cameras smaller than 8x10. I did spend a wonderful year in West Virginia.

John